QNS Letters have started going out

[MemberLG]

FYI - MIAA schools are forbidden from offering athletic scholarships.

So, are you telling me that I made up the story?

Call it what you want, need base scholarship, diversity scholarship, or whatever. If my friend's brother was not a good lacrosse player, he would have never gotten that scholarship. He ended up attending of of the Ivy league school. Again, I like the kid but I don't think he would have gotten in without playing lacrosse. Yes, Ivy league school also don't give out atheltic scholarships.

Is it not an atheltic scholarship, regardless what you call it if the main reason for the scholarship is the recipient's ability to play a sport?

 

[dunninla]

FYI - MIAA schools are forbidden from offering athletic scholarships.

Don't even know what MIAA is, but this subject comes up a lot with regard to DIII schools and athletic scholarships (DIII doesn't offer athletic scholarships). Some DIII arrange "Citizenship", "Leadership", and other silly code-word categories of MERIT scholarship as a proxy for "athletic" scholarships. What's in a name?

 

[Mongo]

A word comes to my mind - transparency.

A horrible idea. It would destroy the entire WCS concept. Instead of being good all around prospects, candidates would attempt to mold themselves as the ideal model.

 

[Luigi59]

So, are you telling me that I made up the story?

Call it what you want, need base scholarship, diversity scholarship, or whatever. If my friend's brother was not a good lacrosse player, he would have never gotten that scholarship. He ended up attending of of the Ivy league school. Again, I like the kid but I don't think he would have gotten in without playing lacrosse. Yes, Ivy league school also don't give out atheltic scholarships.

Is it not an atheltic scholarship, regardless what you call it if the main reason for the scholarship is the recipient's ability to play a sport?

You can call it whatever you want, but if you check with McDonough, or Gilman, or Boys Latin, or Loyola, or any other MIAA school, they all will tell you the same thing - there are not athletic scholarships given, only financial "need based" scholarships.

Don't even know what MIAA is..

It is the highest rated, most competitive, most talent-rich high school lacrosse leagues (and one of the tops in football as well) in the country. Most schools are based in Baltimore.

 

[Luigi59]

Is it not an atheltic scholarship, regardless what you call it if the main reason for the scholarship is the recipient's ability to play a sport?

I know quite a few kids who attend MIAA schools who received financial aid - some play sports, some don't.

 

[VonFritz]

It is crazy to think that athletic ability has nothing to do with some students either receiving financial aid or entrance into a school. It is true that only D1 and D2 schools are allowed to subsidize tuition by awarding athletic scholarships. That does not strictly apply to D3 schools. While prohibited to award athletic scholarships to D3 students, many D3 institutions award financial assistance in other ways - academic, need based.... Some of these students are good students, but their athletic prowess is the real reason for the scholarship. Loop-holes, if you look long enough for one you will find one!

 

[buff81]

And to think that last night I was going to compliment y'all for staying on topic and being fairly civil. What a difference a few hours makes.

A good thread about candidate selection went downhill with posts about USNA's admissions practices in regards to diversity and now about scholarships at MIAA schools?

I'll give the usual advise (which most of you have personally heard MANY times before), keep it on topic and take your off-topic discussions to another thread or via PM. If y'all can't help yourselves and continue then guess what will happen.

Back to the subject at hand:

Frankly, in re-reading Title X ( my favorite past-time ), I don't see where there is any legal mandate to WP as to how they choose the vacancy winner of a Competitive slate. We are told they do it by WCS, but there is nothing legally binding about doing it that way. Selecting by WCS comes into play with the NWL.

The method of the slate says it all, "Competitive". WP tells the MOCs to allow them to select and they will select the most competitive by WP standards. WP has a fiduciary responsibility to select the best qualified. Do you honestly think that the MOCs would continue to allow WP to make the final selection if the selection process were anything else?

That is how WP does it, but it is not a legal mandate per Title X.
I don't see anywhere in Title X where it says that the vacancy winner of unranked slates submitted by MOCs, must be chosen by a 'Competitive' method by West Point.

Yes, via the Principal selection method, the MOC can choose anyone he wants so long as they are qualified. However, his check and balance is his constituancy. Political survivability demands that the MOC take this into account.

Some MOCs appear not to understand this when they 'game the system' and their best qualified constituent loses.

GoArmyBeatNavy has been so kind as to point out two Supreme Court decisions that forbid extra WCS points be given for diversity. I think that it is a given from the input by those in the know that in the NWL selection process also that the highest WCS wins. I would contend that since the selection process must be above scruitny and always subject to investigation or legal action, that the only defendable recourse is to make ALL academy selections, including the remainder of the class beyond the initial 150 NWL with the possible exception of the Supts 50 selectees, subject to WCS ranking. (USNA follows this procedure.)

WP does not. The 150 off the NWL is done by order of merit (WCS) as per Title X. The remainder of the class is filled (the 3:1 ratio part) without regards to the WCS (as permitted by Title X) . This is how WP fines tunes the class to meet some of the diversity goals. IOW - a legal way to pick candidates with WCS lower than others. LOAs are also a way to meet diversity goals.

 

[Mongo]

WP does not. The 150 off the NWL is done by order of merit (WCS) as per Title X. The remainder of the class is filled (the 3:1 ratio part) without regards to the WCS (as permitted by Title X) . This is how WP fines tunes the class to meet some of the diversity goals. IOW - a legal way to pick candidates with WCS lower than others. LOAs are also a way to meet diversity goals.

I doubt seriously if this would pass legal scrutiny.

 

[GoArmyBeatNavy]

I doubt seriously if this would pass legal scrutiny.

-CITE-
10 USC Sec. 4343 01/07/2011

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle B - Army
PART III - TRAINING
CHAPTER 403 - UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY

-HEAD-
Sec. 4343. Cadets: appointment; to bring Corps to full strength

-STATUTE-
If it is determined that, upon the admission of a new class to
the Academy, the number of cadets at the Academy will be below the
authorized number, the Secretary of the Army may fill the vacancies
by nominating additional cadets from qualified candidates
designated as alternates and from other qualified candidates who
competed for nomination and are recommended and found qualified by
the Academic Board. At least three-fourths of those nominated under
this section shall be selected from qualified alternates nominated
by the persons named in clauses (2) through (8) of section 4342(a)
of this title, and the remainder from qualified candidates holding
competitive nominations under any other provision of law. An
appointment under this section is an additional appointment and is
not in place of an appointment otherwise authorized by law.

-SOURCE-
(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 242; Pub. L. 88-276, Sec. 1(2),
Mar. 3, 1964, 78 Stat. 150; Pub. L. 93-171, Sec. 1(5), Nov. 29,
1973, 87 Stat. 690; Pub. L. 102-25, title VII, Sec. 701(f)(5), Apr.
6, 1991, 105 Stat. 115.)

-MISC1-

I think this is where the authority to appoint out of order after the first 150 comes from.

 

[BigNick]

I personally do not want to hear or care what the USNA does. I think those posts are not relavant to the USMA part of the forum and just causes confusion.I suggest that the moderator immediately move those posts to the USNA section of this forum.

 

[Mongo]

I don't see anywhere in Title X where it says that the vacancy winner of unranked slates submitted by MOCs, must be chosen by a 'Competitive' method by West Point.

The answer, again, is in the name. It is not called the "Random Pick" Method for a good reason. From the Congressional Guide:

Competitive Nomination
This is the method of nomination favored by the
academies and used by most Members of Congress
(approximately 70-75 percent). The Member of Congress
submits to an academy an unranked slate of up to ten
nominees for each vacancy. The candidates are then ranked in
order of merit in accordance with the specific academy’s
system. The most highly qualified is selected for an offer of
admission (an appointment) to fill the vacancy.

 

[buff81]

The name does not mean anything - legally.
My only point is that there is nothing in Title X that mandates how WP should choose who gets the vacancy off a MOCs unranked slate.
There are no guidelines in the Code as to how WP has to determine the vacancy winner off an unranked slate.
WP determines the vacancy winner by order of merit, but it is not mandated that they do it that way per the Code.