Reapplying to USNA (after a turndown)

I believe my son’s academic success at the academy was due in large part to his mastery of calculus and physics before he was admitted.

If he can grab a calc course and drop an engineer course, I would advise he do that.
 
severn said:
Ok, I'm assuming this is a USNA reapplication.
Here's a risk analysis.
What's risk? It's the gap between mission and resources.

Mission: Successfully receiving a USNA appointment.

Resources: Completion of Stem Courses specifically Calculus.

High Risk (low probability of an appointment): Missing Calculus in college transcripts.

Low Risk (high probability of an appointment): Completion of Calculus with an above average grade.

Risk Mitigation (lower the risk or shorten the gap between mission and resources):
1. Take Calculus in a different college (community college?)
2. Take Calculus online.
3. Request a meeting with (a) academic advisor and (b) Calculus Instructor. BE brutally honest that you're a USNA reapplicant and you need Calculus to have a chance of receiving an appointment.
*** Main objective of lowering risk is to show Calculus in your college transcripts.
Click to expand...
Adding:

In the first college semester. USNA will look at re-applicants for final decision once they see first semester grades. That first semester is a major linchpin of the re-attack strategy.

It’s not a coincidence the very first course suggested for college applicants/reapplicants is calculus.
www.usna.edu

Previous Candidates & College Candidates

Previous Candidates and College Candidates page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Nov 30 04:57:23 EST 2023.
www.usna.edu

Though it would take extra effort and focus, going after a pre-calc or calculus course by whatever means would help with comparison to competitors, whether HS students or other college applicants. That extra effort could even make a nice highlight in his new essay responses, about identifying a need, prioritizing it, finding a solution and executing it, despite the cost in time and effort.

Can he find and complete a pre-calc or calculus course right now?

Great that he is pursuing NROTC and probably applying for that ROTC nom. Keep in mind only 20 appointments are charged nationally to the noms authorized for JROTC and ROTC applicants. Nevertheless, it is a huge vote of confidence to earn one from the unit PNS and is not lost on USNA - it’s a senior, experienced naval officer giving his/her personal and professional recommendation as to the officer potential of an individual.

Two non-profits to explore to look for free courses from respected schools, not diploma mills, are Learning Path and Coursera. During COVID I took some courses like Diff EQ and Linear Algebra just to see if I could still do those kinds of things; gave me some structure and challenge. during that time at home. Took some effort to chip the rust off, but the gears still worked.


learningpath.org

LearningPath.org - Degrees, Schools, Online Courses and Careers

A guide to earning a high school diploma or GED, the college admissions process, and earning your bachelor's degree or master's degree.
learningpath.org

coursera.org

Coursera | Degrees, Certificates, & Free Online Courses

Learn new job skills in online courses from industry leaders like Google, IBM, & Meta. Advance your career with top degrees from Michigan, Penn, Imperial & more.
coursera.org coursera.org


Good luck!
 
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@Kentucky9

An additional thought - the presence or absence of calculus may or may not be the long pole in your son’s tent (a favorite phrase of mine, bear with me), but superficial gap analysis highlights it as an element that could use some attention. The totality of everything he brings will still be evaluated, and the fact he made it onto the NAPS waitlist tells us USNA would definitely be interested in having him in Class of 2028 if there was room in the NAPS class. Candidates can be sent to NAPS for any number of reasons, with academic polishing one of the primary reasons. Assuming that is the reason your son was diverted for NAPS consideration, that first semester course selection and academic performance are strategically critical.

Poking around a bit:

Free Online Calculus Courses from Top Universities

Online calculus courses are offered for free by top universities, including MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), UC Berkeley and UMass…
learningpath.org

www.coursera.org

Best Precalculus Courses & Certificates Online [2023] | Coursera

Learn Precalculus or improve your skills online today. Choose from a wide range of Precalculus courses offered from top universities and industry leaders. Our Precalculus courses are perfect for individuals or for corporate Precalculus training to upskill your workforce.
www.coursera.org www.coursera.org
 
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Kentucky9 said:
Thoughts….DS currently can’t take calc since all classes are currently full or conflict with his engineering schedule. He currently has 17hours, which include Chem I, 2 ROTC classes, upper level Early American History, a bs university class, and two physics based engineering classes. Any idea how punitive it will be if he can’t get into a section of calc or pre calc?
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My son hasn't decided if he is going to reapply, but he was waitlisted for USNA direct admit and wasn't turned down until the end of May. He asked what specifically was a "plebe-like schedule" and he was told. "Take a full course load and make sure one of the classes is Calculus." He was told that admissions isn't that concerned with the totality of the schedule or his major as long as it is at least 15 credit hours and one of the courses is Calculus. Given that (second-hand) information, if he were my kid, I would recommend he sacrifice whatever other courses he needs to in order to ensure he gets into Calculus. Good luck to your son!
 
NavyHopefulMom2027 said:
My son hasn't decided if he is going to reapply, but he was waitlisted for USNA direct admit and wasn't turned down until the end of May. He asked what specifically was a "plebe-like schedule" and he was told. "Take a full course load and make sure one of the classes is Calculus." He was told that admissions isn't that concerned with the totality of the schedule or his major as long as it is at least 15 credit hours and one of the courses is Calculus. Given that (second-hand) information, if he were my kid, I would recommend he sacrifice whatever other courses he needs to in order to ensure he gets into Calculus. Good luck to your son!
Click to expand...
He got it done today. Thanks all!
 
I was wondering what transcripts are required for re-applicants who are freshman in college. I understand the first semester college transcripts which become available in January, but are high school transcripts also part of the application? If so, is it the final high school transcript with all four years, or only a senior year transcript with quarterly or semester break down?
 
The application still requires a full HS transcript. Approach it as you are applying for the first time with respect to documents (except DoDMERB). You will request submission of your 1st semester grades from college later. I think my kid had to to submit his course schedule as part of his re-application.
 
Hello! I am currently reapplying to USNA. Most people suggest taking classes at a civilian college similar to those taken during the Plebe year. USNA is highly selective, so I'm not putting all my eggs into one basket. If attending USNA does not work out for me, I will work toward becoming a Veterinarian in the Army Veterinary Corp. This fall, I will be majoring in Animal Science on a pre-vet track instead of taking classes similar to USNA. My lessons will include English, animal science, biology, and calculus. I'm worried that those reviewing my application will look down on this.

What do you think? Will this be okay if I explain this to my BGO during my nomination interviews?
 
basketball2squid said:
Hello! I am currently reapplying to USNA. Most people suggest taking classes at a civilian college similar to those taken during the Plebe year. USNA is highly selective, so I'm not putting all my eggs into one basket. If attending USNA does not work out for me, I will work toward becoming a Veterinarian in the Army Veterinary Corp. This fall, I will be majoring in Animal Science on a pre-vet track instead of taking classes similar to USNA. My lessons will include English, animal science, biology, and calculus. I'm worried that those reviewing my application will look down on this.

What do you think? Will this be okay if I explain this to my BGO during my nomination interviews?
Click to expand...
Can you add physics to your course load?
 
@basketball2squid


USNA advises college applicants and reapplicants as detailed in this link below. Taking a plebe-like schedule is what USNA advises.

www.usna.edu

Previous Candidates & College Candidates

Previous Candidates and College Candidates page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Nov 30 04:57:23 EST 2023.
www.usna.edu

If you were turned down the first time for academic weakness, excelling in similar courses makes a strong case to USNA you can handle the academics. They will look at reapplicant first semester college grades as new information.

USNA would not look down on a candidate for their choices. They will evaluate and score your application and make a decision, as they do for thousands of candidates each year. I think it is prudent for you to be working on alternate plans, though it does seem Army Veterinary Corps is at a different place on the spectrum than a Navy or Marine Corps commission via USNA. Not bad, just different.

I think you are adding a risk factor to your USNA application, but that is just my two cents’ worth of opinion. If you are okay with that risk and would be equally happy pursuing the Army vet path, that is good. Service as an Army vet is a fine path.

You may want to spend time developing an articulate response as to the degree of your desire to pursue a Navy or Marine Corps commission as your ultimate goal, if you are not doing what USNA recommends for coursework, and you are not exploring NROTC as well as seeking a nom from that source. To be fair, not all reapplicants uniformly take a plebe schedule and join NROTC.
 
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MomofMultitude said:
My kid is currently plebe at USNA after a year at NAPS (Naval Academy Prep School.) Friend didn't get into USNA or NAPS so he went to Georgia Military College www.gmc.edu He re-applied to USNA and got in and is now also a plebe at USNA. Persistence paid off!
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thanks for sharing this hopeful story! makes my momma heart happy to hear this!
 
Calc week 1……makes sense. ROTC makes sense. Chemistry is making sense. Prices and the entire Greek thing make no sense.
 
Capt MJ said:
@Kentucky9

An additional thought - the presence or absence of calculus may or may not be the long pole in your son’s tent (a favorite phrase of mine, bear with me), but superficial gap analysis highlights it as an element that could use some attention. The totality of everything he brings will still be evaluated, and the fact he made it onto the NAPS waitlist tells us USNA would definitely be interested in having him in Class of 2028 if there was room in the NAPS class. Candidates can be sent to NAPS for any number of reasons, with academic polishing one of the primary reasons. Assuming that is the reason your son was diverted for NAPS consideration, that first semester course selection and academic performance are strategically critical.

Poking around a bit:

Free Online Calculus Courses from Top Universities

Online calculus courses are offered for free by top universities, including MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), UC Berkeley and UMass…
learningpath.org

www.coursera.org

Best Precalculus Courses & Certificates Online [2023] | Coursera

Learn Precalculus or improve your skills online today. Choose from a wide range of Precalculus courses offered from top universities and industry leaders. Our Precalculus courses are perfect for individuals or for corporate Precalculus training to upskill your workforce.
www.coursera.org www.coursera.org
Click to expand...
He has established rapport with his calc professor, who has agreed to write him a letter of recommendation. Overcoming some trig weaknesses that were a product of Covid but is dedicated to understanding Calc….and Chem! History is a refreshing escape, and physically he will be participating in the ROTC’s competitive team, armytenmiler this fall, and intramural flag football 🤣! He is dedicated and focused! I know he doesn’t have the support system that is provided at NAPS….but he is attacking
 
RAI923 said:
I just posted some tips for reapplying in the other thread in response to Apollo 8. My son still says that USNA knows what they are doing, even though his turndown stung…ALOT! On paper, how could they not get in? But the year of experience at college was a gift in his life, experience, friends, maturation, self sufficiency, soul searching, triumphing over poor exam and sprained ankle (April, think of making that call home!). A month from Commissioning he still says the first turndown was the best thing that ever happened. From a mom’s perspective, his wisdom was gained through a heartache and defeat like he had never known and taught by USNA like I never could. All the best to your son In the year ahead.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this! I agree that the TWE my DS got on April 12th was the best thing that’s ever happened to him! He was too confident and put all his eggs in the USNA basket. He had to swallow his pride and get right back on the horse and make himself better in literally every single way to reapply. Even if he never ever gets into USNA, I know this TWE helped him be a better person 100%. Forged by the Sea!!!:)
 
usna1985 said:
Below is information for those reapplying to USNA after being turned down. It also may be helpful to first time candidates who are currently in college.

PLEASE NOTE: While every attempt has been made to make this sticky accurate, the information below has not been reviewed, approved or endorsed by USNA.

You got the TWE this year and are considering reapplying for next year. Now what?

First, USNA looks favorably on those who reapply. They like the persistence and maturity of post h.s. candidates. About 1/3 of each entering class has a year or more of post h.s. education. However, as a reapplicant, you have to address your "weaknesses" from your original application or make your already stellar application even stronger. Submitting essentially the same packet is unlikely to produce a different result.

Second, contact USNA Admissions, preferably waiting until June or July, when things are a bit slower. Ask your Regional Director what specifically you can do to improve your package in the coming year. You may also want to talk to your BGO. Don't guess. Don't assume. If you don't know what held you back, you can't "fix" it and, until you do, your chances of admission don't increase. If you didn't get a nom, try contacting your MOC's SA rep and ask what you can do to improve.

Third, enroll at a 4-yr college -- not a community college unless this is all you can financially afford, in which case make sure USNA knows this is the reason. The college itself isn't all that important. Take the following courses -- calc, chemistry w/lab, English, history and, if possible physics. Get As or high Bs. I cannot emphasize this enough. Taking and doing well in the plebe courses demonstrates more than anything that you can handle the academic load at USNA. Take mostly other courses or get low Bs and below and it's unlikely your status with USNA will change.

Fourth, with respect to leadership, sports and ECAs . . . USNA realizes there are limits on what freshman can do, especially at large universities. That said, look for ways to make yourself stand out. For example, do something productive during the summer, such as getting a job or working at a non-profit. Once at college, find a small project (i.e., fundraiser) that you can lead or take a large role in leading. Play organized sports (intramurals, club sports, etc.). Your grades are still of PRIMARY importance so don't go so overboard with activities that your grades slip. But at the same time, try to do some things that show USNA you can handle academics AND the other stuff that USNA will throw at you.

Fifth, consider asking for a new BGO. The reason is that you want another BGO to say that you're great. Your current BGO is unlikely to change his/her opinion of you and a fresh perspective is always a good thing; if you liked your first BGO, you can always keep in contact and ask him/her to write another rec. That said, a great rec from another BGO helps. If you're assigned the same BGO, ask the Area Coordinator for someone else, maybe a BGO near your college. Note: there is no requirement to change BGOs and some successful reapplicants keep the same one. But, for the reasons stated above, having a second BGO can help you -- and may be logistically easier depending on the location of your college and your schedule.

Sixth, check with your RD about retaking SATs/ACTs. USNA considers standardized tests to be a predictor of college success. The better predictor is how well you actually do in college "plebe" courses. However, if your SATs were lower than 650V/700M, you probably should retake them because it might help. As noted, if in doubt, ask your RD.

Seventh, re-evaluate your CFA. Did you max out on every event? If not, there is room for improvement. USNA focuses on crunches (sit-ups), push-ups and the mile run but every event counts. While the CFA technically is pass/fail, an excellent score helps. This is particularly true if you’re not participating in college varsity sports and, as a freshman, it's quite likely you're not. So get with a coach or trainer, work on any events you didn't max, and retake it.

Should I take a "gap year" before I reapply? [NEW]

For anyone who doesn't know, a "gap year" is a year between high school senior and college freshman where young people . . . do something that doesn't involve attending school. Traveling is a common theme. As a general proposition, it might be great, but it's unlikely to help for USNA purposes and could actually hurt. The reasons are: (1) you're unlikely to improve your admissions package during gap year, (2) your knowledge of important subjects such as calc and chem will start to fade, (3) your teachers who need to recommend you might not remember as much about you. A gap year might be ok for USNA purposes if you do something really productive with your time. For example, if you spend a year teaching English in China. In that case you would have the benefits of leadership in teaching, living on your own, (hopefully) learning some Mandarin, and living / working in a very different society -- China. There are probably other examples, but not a lot. If you're considering a gap year, you might want to discuss your intended plans with your USNA Admissions officer and / or your BGO.

Should I enlist and try to gain entry into USNA from the enlisted ranks? [NEW]

The short answer is no. Do not enlist with the expectation that this will get you into USNA. Enlist because you want to be in the USN or USMC as an enlisted person. There are numerous threads on this topic that contain great and sage advice; I won't repeat it here. Please search under "enlisting" in this forum.

Should I write new essays?

Yes. You will have matured a lot in the year since you first applied and that increased maturity will inevitably show in your essay. It’s not that USNA will (necessarily) compare the old vs. new, but rather that you can help show how you have matured and improved through your essay.

Do I need to reapply for a nomination?

Yes. Nominations do not "carry over" from one year to the next. Thus you need to reapply to your MOCs, VP and any other sources for which you're eligible.

Should I submit my new USNA application package right away?

No. Things are different for college students/reapplicants than for h.s students. USNA won’t consider your application until first semester college grades are in, which is typically near the end of January. Thus, do NOT rush to submit your package to USNA – take the time to get in more ECAs, sports, better essays, etc. BTW, this does not apply to MOC deadlines, which typically are the same for all applicants.

Does it matter what college I attend?

Not really, provided it’s a 4-yr college. USNA recognizes that people may need/want to attend certain colleges for various reasons, including financial. Obviously, attending MIT and receiving all As isn’t going to hurt! But it’s not required. Reapplying to USNA may not work out, so choose a college where you expect to be happy for the next four years. If you can only afford to attend a community college for financial or other reasons, be sure to discuss this with your BGO.

I validated out of [pick any] “plebe course” at my college and/or I can’t get into [pick any] plebe course at my college. What do I do?

If you validate out of the entry level of a plebe course, try to take the next level of that same course. For example, if you validate Calc I, take Calc II. If you validate Calc I and II, take Calc III or some other higher level math course. If you validate out of freshman English, take another English class that includes written work. If you can’t get into a course (e.g., chemistry b/c it’s filled with doctor wannabes), take physics or intro to engineering. You should try to model your course load on the plebe courses, but if you encounter difficulties, take courses as close as possible given your limitations. Plebes take 16/17 hours per semester, so your course load should be in that range – at least 15 hours/semester.

Should/must I do NROTC?

Doing ROTC can help in many ways. First, it can help you confirm that a military lifestyle/career is what you really want. Second, it provides a another source for a nomination. Third, it helps demonstrate your interest in the USN. The above said, it’s not a requirement for a successful reapplication. There are various reasons that some candidates can’t or don’t want to do ROTC. If you excel in other ways, the fact you didn’t do ROTC shouldn’t be an issue.

I’m currently a cadet/mid at another SA but I really want to attend USNA. Can I apply from one SA to another?

Yes, you can apply. Technically, you could be accepted. Realistically, you won’t be. The main reason is that SAs don’t want to be seen as “poaching” from one another – the whole thing could quickly become very unseemly. A secondary/related reason is that every SA wants people to attend who actually want to be there and not those who see it as a jumping off spot for another SA; thus none of the SAs wants to encourage that approach. If you don’t like the SA you’re currently attending and want to attend another SA, you’re probably going to have to leave that SA and attend civilian college for a year while applying to the other SA(s). Not an easy process. Thus, you should never go to SA#1 with the hope or expectation that you can parlay that into four years at SA#2.

Prep school vs. college – which should I do?

USNA says college. There are some exceptions which include (but aren’t limited to): you need help with study skills or time management; your high school was terrible and didn’t prepare you well; you need to build independence and learn to live away from home. Going to prep school (including Foundation schools) as an unsponsored student believing this will increase your chances of admission is risky. View with skepticism the numbers prep schools tout in terms of SA admissions – be sure you’re looking at “self prep” numbers, not numbers that include “sponsored” prep students. A year at prep school is absolutely terrific for some and a total waste of time and money for others.

I’m in a huge lecture class at college and my prof doesn’t know me. Whom should I ask for teacher recommendations?

USNA prefers recommendations from your college profs as they are able to comment on college level work. However, if you’re in a huge lecture class (>100 students) where the prof doesn't know his/her students, USNA will accept recommendations from your senior year h.s. English and math teachers. If you have small sections in college math or English or you otherwise have gotten to know your prof, you should use your college prof. One side note – if you plan to use your college profs, remember there is no need for them to submit the rec early. However, you may want to tell your prof early in the semester that you will be asking for a rec so he/she can get to know you. If you plan to submit h.s. teacher recs, I suggest you ask for them early so that you are still fresh in their minds from the prior year.

What should I do during the summer after my senior year?

First, take couple weeks of vacation. You deserve it and probably need it. After that, do something that will improve your chances of being appointed next year, which basically means doing something productive. For many, this means work. USNA understands that candidates about to enter civilian college may need to get a job in order to help finance their education. That's perfectly fine and expected.

If you're lucky enough not to need a job, consider what you can do to improve yourself or the lives of others. Volunteer. Take an intensive language course. Participate in sports camps. Something other than hanging around the house or mall all summer.

People who are successful at USNA are those who like to keep busy – and summers at USNA are jam-packed. Thus, show USNA that you can do something useful with your free time.

A few other notes:

You will get a new candidate number and will need to resubmit everything to USNA (e.g., new letters of recommendation, new Candidate Activities Record). You need to retake the CFA. You do NOT need to redo your medical (DODMERB exam is good for 2 years) unless something in your medical situation has changed.

You will in all likelihood maintain your current district/state of residence, even when you go to college (mostly because you remain a dependent of your parents). In that case, you reapply to the same MOCs.

USNA has told BGOs that it is important for reapplicants to improve on ALL areas of their application -- grades, CFA, standardized tests and continued leadership. IOW, it's not enough simply to get As in the plebe courses -- you want to push yourself across the board.

Doing all the above is not a guarantee of an appointment. But, for those who remain determined, it's the best path.

Finally, the moment you receive a turndown, you tend to think that reapplying to USNA is the only answer. However, along that journey, many young men and women find that they really love their civilian school. Many open a new USNA application only to pull it weeks or months later.

The fact is that, much as you wanted to attend USNA, you may well find that “Plan B” turns out to be an exceptional Plan A and soon you can’t imagine being anywhere else. Embrace that! There are many paths to happiness and success in life – USNA is only one of them.

Reapplicants who do receive USNA appointments may still struggle with the decision whether to leave their civilian school, where they’ve had success, made friends, etc. I worked with one who loved her civilian school and wasn’t sure she wanted to “start over” at USNA. She ended up doing so, was extremely happy, and graduated from USNA in the top 50 of her class. However, it wasn’t an easy decision – and it may not be for you.

If the desire for USNA still burns, go for it. But, if the USNA flame is replaced by a love for your new school/life, be thrilled it’s worked out so well for you and celebrate your success.

Best of luck!
Click to expand...
So what you said about USNA not looking at college applicant applications until 1st-semester grades are in.... so I got my AS during high school (this May) from a community college and due to financial difficulties (I explained to USNA) I am taking a chem class this semester along with lots of leadership ECA's and two jobs to occupy my time and make my application a bit stronger. I was wondering if the same applies to me since they have 65 college credit grades to look at for me because I received my associate of science in May, or if they will still wait and look at my one class grade (from the same institution) this fall before reviewing my application. Thank you!
 
mighthawk87 said:
I was wondering if the same applies to me since they have 65 college credit grades to look at for me because I received my associate of science in May, or if they will still wait and look at my one class grade (from the same institution) this fall before reviewing my application.
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You MAY be different, given the prior college credits. I thought I just read on another thread that you weren't a re -applicant either, so they aren't looking for academic improvement. If your academic record is sufficient, they run the record through the Board now. That said, what does it matter if its now or January ? Once you get the Admissions Q ..you still have to compete for the Appointment, and the vast majority of Noms and Appointments work begins Feb 1.
 
Gutcheck time for my DS. Thriving in everything but calc tests. EC’s, other classes, and even calc homework kicking ass. Calc tests total out of left field obstacle. If only he had the support system of NAPS and 10,000 other inconsequential things. Will see where it lands
 
My DS just finished his third and final MOC interview today. He said each of the interviews he’s had this time were much more difficult than last year. All of the folks on the panels really took it to him. Last year he said he breezed right through the questions. Has anyone else had this feedback? Maybe he’s wiser now or has a truer sense of what is at stake? Just wondered what your reapplicants are saying this time around.
 
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