Resigning Cadet

Sorry, but we part ways here.

Did the OP state he was drinking daily?
~ There is a big leap to assume that he was foolish drinking on Sat., like many traditional college kids to they clearly have a problem.

He was a fool impo because he didn't get the SA life, but taking him out to the woodshed does no good.

He F'd up. His parents are living through major stress.
~ Heck there is a poll on another forum addressing if a parent should pay.

I look at this and can only say OMG how many stones are being thrown?

I am not naive. I know my kids drank underage, just like their parents. I do not think they have an alcohol problem. You do realize in Europe 18 is the legal age to drink?

Want to argue that they should be held at a higher standard than any college kid (non-ROTC) than go for it! Yet, your post flat out says:
PhilDavidsonUSAFA said:
He clearly has a problem, the kid is dependent on alcohol and needs treatment and counseling.
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An assumption without knowing the facts.
~ Throw the stone, but how did he get the alcohol as a C4C?
~ How did he buy it, smuggle it in?

Surely, he had peers that failed too. However, this kid did the honorable thing and resigned.

The OP has not responded for 3 days. Reading the berating/condescension that posters feel free to post, I would have walked away too.

The amount of stones being thrown is disheartening.

I am also going to say that if you believe your little baby at college never imbibed, or saw underage drinking than you have:
1. An Angel
or
2. A relationship where they hide the truth from you.

Just me, but sit down with your child at a traditional college, and ask them these questions:
1. Did you see drunk students?
2. What did you do?
~ Did they report them? If not why?

If they didn't, why not?

Life is grey.

I hope we all stop this attack regarding alcoholism. The kid screwed up. The family is broken hearted. Enough with the judgement.

Move on and assist on how their child can become an officer.
 
scoutpilot said:
he didn't want to be at USMA and it was "suicide by cop"
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Don't discount this as a possible cause also.

In my opinion, its much more helpful to focus on the OP's original question rather than pontificate.
 
Pima said:
I am also going to say that if you believe your little baby at college never imbibed, or saw underage drinking than you have:
1. An Angel
or
2. A relationship where they hide the truth from you.
Click to expand...

I am a current student (Cadet), albeit not at USMA, and I have NEVER been drunk in my life. I have no idea how it feels to even be drunk. I had half a beer once while at home, hundreds of miles AWAY from the academy. So don't spew that the alcohol culture is universal. The kid has a problem, and it is now the parent's responsibility to ensure that he or she is treated.
 
I don't care how mile you were away from home. You just acknowledged that you consumed alcohol underage.

A sip is the same thing to me as a drink. You imbibed illegally, end of subject.

Did you self report drinking underage?
~He did. He is taking responsibility by admitting his alcohol offense.
~~ How about you?
~~~ Are you willing come August to inform the SA/ROTC as a cadet that you imbibed underage? If not, how do justify that you drank alcohol under age? 1/2 beer is still alcohol.
~~~~ Don't throw a stone unless you want your windows to be hit.

We are talking about alcoholism. There is no evidence of alcoholism. Alcoholism is a disease, it should not be taking lightly.

You are young.... I am a cadet comment. When you have a child like the OP, please come back and respond. 18/19/20 is nothing.

Dang my kids tell me everyday I am wrong...yet, I pay their cell phone bill, their health and car insurance

Flame on!
 
Pima said:
Did you self report drinking underage?
~He did. He is taking responsibility by admitting his alcohol offense.
~~ How about you?
~~~ Are you willing come August to inform the SA/ROTC as a cadet that you imbibed underage? If not, how do justify that you drank alcohol under age? 1/2 beer is still alcohol.
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Uhhh...He didn't 'Self Report'. He got caught. And self reporting me drinking half a beer at home would be laughable even in the air force.
 
Were you underage? Yes or No?
Underage drinking is illegal for all those underage, not just people at the academy.
I would say Yes!

You broke the law too.

Just saying don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
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How is that glass house now? How are you better than them?
~ The rule is the rule...no underage drinking AT ALL!

You imbibed underage. I don't care the circumstances. Report it or shut up impo. Do you have an alcohol problem because you imbibed as a minor? Should we say your folks endorse alcohol because you imbibed at their home?

I am glad you can live in a world of honor and above us mortals. I am human, and made mistakes. I won't cast a stone and ASSUME anything. I WILL believe in mankind.

YOU may become an officer, part of that is not jumping to a conclusion.
~ Do you know the facts? I don't!
~~I am not willing to assume I am better than them!
 
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Pima said:
You just acknowledged that you consumed alcohol underage.

A sip is the same thing to me as a drink. You imbibed illegally, end of subject.
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Not necessarily. Some states allow minors to drink alcohol legally while accompanied by their parents. Therefore you cannot assume that if he had a half of a beer at home that it was illegal.

Pima said:
I am also going to say that if you believe your little baby at college never imbibed:
1. An Angel
or
2. A relationship where they hide the truth from you.
Click to expand...

As far as believing that my kids didn't drink in college... Yes I do believe that because they have told me. My wife and I do not drink, and my kids have watched that example and said it was never worth the risk in college. I have had too many conversations with their friends who confirm that they didn't. The two who are over 21 now do drink, and that is fine with me. I just had to say that because don't like someone telling me that my kids are lying to me if they say that they didn't drink when they were underage.

Stealth_81
 
1994ARM said:
My son resigned from USMA in lieu of a conduct investigation. He received an honorable discharged but his DD form 785 he received a 5 "definitely do not recommend". He had a beer in his room for his first offense. His second offense he got caught for suspicion of being drunk shortly after the first offense. He has aspirations of being an officer and has expressed interest going the Navy route and possibly doing NROTC. I know you can appeal the DD785, but I heard its like impossible to get it changed. Is Roth completely out of the questions. I just don't want my son to have these opportunities stripped from him for making a few mistakes. Any ideas on how to handle this, or if ROTC is even in the question. Thanks
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1. Unlike the other posters, it's hard to tell if your DS has a "problem" with alcohol.
2. What seems apparent is that he made a very costly mistake, not once, but twice.
3. His life is HIS responsibility, not yours. I find it interesting that HE didn't ask the question.
4. Although you as a parent "care" and want to help, ultimately it is HIS life and he has to DO what he can IF it's important enough for him. At the same time, he has to take responsibility that oops, this particular mistake may just not be remedied in the way he'd like.
5. IF being an officer IS important to HIM (not you) then HE will do whatever it takes for HIM to get that accomplished.
 
I'm in agreement with Scoutpilot and Pima. There are no facts represented to render alcoholism as being the case.

I'm dismayed at times that society/military has become a place of 1 and done mentality. I feel that our need for zero tolerance for many things nowadays is actually eroding maturity and integrity. Instead of confessing and growing in our mistakes - young people often feel compelled to hide it, find creative ways to obtain perfection (cheating) and puff themselves up. Of course, there are valid situations for one and done.

It seems strange to me that it is so hard for young people to switch commissioning routes once he/she begins one. I'm interested in hearing what are the real possibilities for this young man....if so chooses to seek a commission.
 
Voyager, agree in many regards. Only a person trained to deal with this can make an assessment if this young man has an addiction or not, none of us can make that determination.

I also agree on 1 and done is not a great thing. But it sounds like he made it through the first one and then followed it up. Drinking in a room at a SA is about as severe a conduct offense one can get. I would venture to say most are tossed for that. The SAs tend to also punish those more senior when dealing with a mixed groups of cadets, because whenever military members are together, one is always the most senior, in and out of uniform. This applies in the operating forces as well.

In a military that is shrinking I would say his chances are slim. All he can do at this point is make an appt with the unit LT and sit down and tell his story, how he has fixed the issue and be ready to answer any question honestly and fully. He would have to hit the ground running and bust his hump. He would have a very short time to prove himself to gain advance standing in NROTC and be prepared to receive a positive or negative endorsement when the time comes. He could be the best Mid they have and still not make it. At the end of the day; if this is what he wants and is willing to put the work in for a small chance that it works out, then good on him. Ultimately he is the one that has to look himself in the mirror and say he gave it his all or not.

To the OP, I am sorry this has happened. I hope your DS can find closure and his next chapter in life. He got in to WP which tells me he has the ability to do anything he wants. I hope he finds that drive again. Tell him good luck, hold his head high and charter his next course.
 
Stealth_81 said:
Not necessarily. Some states allow minors to drink alcohol legally while accompanied by their parents. Therefore you cannot assume that if he had a half of a beer at home that it was illegal.
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I live in a state, Texas, which allows minors to consume alcohol supplied to them by a parent/guardian in our house. So the half beer, which my parents had bought and allowed me to try was consumed legally and in accordance with state law.

Someone who is so persistent in acquiring alcohol as to get kicked out of the most senior and prestigious military academy in the world IMO has a problem more likely than not.
 
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