School Sports Competitiveness

[TheFourth]

So I know whenever USNA is looking into your class rank and GPA, etc, they look into how good your school is. But when they're doing this do they look at how competitive sports are? Because my school only cares about sports, and has been state champion most years in almost every sport. So, if I am JV but I have a varsity time at a different, or most schools, would USNA take that into account?

 

[THParent]

I don't work in Admissions, and I have no idea how the "voodoo" of putting a class together works, so keep that in mind when you digest my response!

(I feel) what is a more important to USNA is how competitive your school is academically. Physical fitness plays a large part in the Military in general and is a huge part of the Plebe Year and the balance of a Midshipmen's 4 years at USNA. Like most colleges however, being recruited as an athlete represents a small portion (overall) of those who receive Offers of Appointment. You need to be in good shape when you get there, but you don't need to be a State Champion or All-American.

It is my gut feel that USNA doesn't dwell so much on how competitive the sports are, but more so if you were part of the team leadership in those sports (think "Team Captain" here). If you weren't a team captain then don't worry about it.

Of course, leadership can come from a lot of different areas. You could be active in Scouting. You could be active in setting up a new club at school. You could be a tutor in Chemistry at your school. I don't know what you do in those areas, so I can't comment.

USNA is looking for a "Whole Candidate Score" when reviewing the strength of your application. To put this WCS together, the "Varsity Sports" thing is just a part of it. Don't get too hung up on it, would be my advice to you.

I hope that helps.

 

[Memphis9489]

So I know whenever USNA is looking into your class rank and GPA, etc, they look into how good your school is. But when they're doing this do they look at how competitive sports are? Because my school only cares about sports, and has been state champion most years in almost every sport. So, if I am JV but I have a varsity time at a different, or most schools, would USNA take that into account?

First of all, you're either being recruited for sports or not. If you're being recruited, the coach has obviously seen/discovered something out about your athletic prowess that makes you desirable for that sport - regardless of your school.

If you're not being recruited, your ability in the sport will play the primary role as the coach may put a "good word" in for you with admissions. Many of the coaches of the lesser sports do not have any "blue chips" - all they can really do is "flag" you as desirable. Obviously, your high school athletic achievements have more meaning if you play for a big school which competes against other big schools. If you're the best swimmer in a rural school that has 120 students, where you have to use the YMCA pool to compete against the only other school in your county - well, I guess that speaks for itself. But, if the swimming coach actually saw you swim and recognizes your ability, that would be more important than your seemingly humble level of competition.

 

[MidCakePa]

I presume you’re asking because of sports’ impact on WCS and not because you believe you’re USNA varsity material. I say this because if it’s the latter, you’d be on your school’s varsity — that’s the skill level needed to play D1, regardless of how competitive your high school team is.

That said, heed THParent’s advice. Varsity sports are important (93% of USNA’s Class of 2022 played varsity) but there are ways to compensate. Varsity sports are less a measure of fitness than of teamwork, perseverance, determination and resilience. Show that you have those traits via other activities, namely extracurriculars and community involvement. And strengthen the rest of your package — especially academics — to compensate further. Best wishes.

 

[jl123]

So I know whenever USNA is looking into your class rank and GPA, etc, they look into how good your school is. But when they're doing this do they look at how competitive sports are? Because my school only cares about sports, and has been state champion most years in almost every sport. So, if I am JV but I have a varsity time at a different, or most schools, would USNA take that into account?

You get the same number of points for being on a weaker, small school varsity team as you do on a big school, highly competitive varsity team.

 

[CrewDad]

Everyone made excellent points here and I would take those inputs to your heart. Everything said here are all absolutely true.

There appears to be two goals why you do sports throughout middle school and high school.

It is to get you physically strong mentally prepared to fight defeat and persevere and build strong leadership working as a unit. Other skills and experience you will attain are strategic and tactical skills and the fraternity and unit pride. These are priceless.

Second, in these pursuits you will be able to check mark what the SAs like to see but the core value is to have the above assets before continuing your Scholar Leader Athlete Volunteer path at an Academy.

You will be able to walk in to many Varsity Sports to tryout during Plebe Summer or BCT. If the team and coach think you are a good fit and have the room to take you in you are in even without that prior sports experience. Because they want good people! Same is true in your career.

So what you do now do it to prepare yourself and to enjoy what you do and don’t be too focused on impressions and putting check marks on your Apps. That’s a short term miss many applicants get wrong. If you’re a Junior it is too late to start something new now but it is time to dig in to show depth and quality. And forget about if your school is competitive enough in academics and athletics relative to other peer schools. That’s beyond your control at this point. Stay true to yourself and present your best character in your resume to Academies and colleges. If you do that you will not regret the outcome!

 

[AF6872]

DD was varsity at three sports at high school. None were played at USNA D1 when she was there they created their own Clubs.

 

[MidwestDad]

As example DS' HS had 1600 students and was 'average' competitive level in most sports.

Another school 10 miles away has over 2800 students and competes for State championships annually in both football and basketball.
This school is so strong that they attract transfers who want better exposure to D1 NCAA recruiters which further reduces opportunities for 'hometown' student athletes.

DS was 3 sport varsity athlete and captain of 2 teams; he would likely have been cut or 2nd string at the other school just based on height and weight student population profiles.

I guess if I was a SA hopeful in a district where athletic opportunities were limited due to these issues I may look for club / individual sport opportunities but try and exhaust the varsity options first.

 

[Memphis9489]

Just look at any class profile. Consistently, over 90% played varsity sports in high school. Yet, when they get to the Naval Academy, most of them do not play that sport at the varsity level. Most of the men who played football in high school are not on the Naval Academy's football team. Most of the women who played soccer, lacrosse, basketball, or whatever - do not play that sport at the varsity level at the Naval Academy.

All candidates have to complete the CFA (Candidate Fitness Assessment) to insure that the candidate has a modicum of athletic ability.

So why the obvious interest in appointing proven athletes? - one might ask. Mostly, the academy wants midshipmen who can handle the physical rigors of military service and that service begins at the Naval Academy. It starts with PEP. There are many swimming requirements. There are obstacle courses. They get exposed to rock climbing. They have to pass the PRT (Physical Readiness Test) every semester - a test which continues while in the fleet. They must take PE classes that teach boxing, wrestling, martial arts, personal conditioning, and swimming and more swimming. Just marching around in the hot sun takes a level of physical stamina. Then there's Sea Trials at the end of Plebe Year. And the PRTs keep on coming! If they want to be a Marine - they'll have to attend Leatherneck. And there's no point in even addressing the SEAL screening process. It's the military! All service members, especially those who could be forward deployed, have to have strength, stamina, and resilience. The best indicator that a candidate will have those traits is demonstrated athletic exposure. They don't have to be Best of the Preps. They don't have to be the best athlete at their school. They don't even need to be at a level of athletic ability that they are being recruited. They just can't be that smart, slovenly, flabby kid with the high ACT scores who can easily get into Princeton - but not a service academy.

So, the important thing isn't so much that you're a great athlete at a big school that engages in high-level competition. Mostly, the academy wants a healthy, fit candidate who enjoys competition and has learned the many lessons that come from athletic competition. It says something about them as compared to the kid whose only activities in high school are student government, the debate team, and the president of the chess club. In short, they want kids who can "take a punch", metaphorically speaking (literally speaking if you're into boxing).

 

[time2]

Since the OP's prior posts indicate he is just starting his freshman year of h.s., there is plenty of time to find sport(s) that fit your skills/ability/interest and focus on excelling there. I would focus on how you can achieve success in varsity sports since those are the people you will be competing against when it comes time to apply, rather than rationalizing why you can't improve. Four years of h.s. is plenty of time to improve and become successful in whatever you decide to pursue.

The others at your h.s. weren't born varsity athletes and worked/improved/focused their efforts to achieve that level of success.

 

[AF6872]

DD went to High School in a very small school (less than 500) in a very small community of schools although very competitive and respected preps. Her school's statement on athletics: I believe we have the proper perspective on athletics. We think students learn certain things playing sports that they won't learn anywhere else in terms of teamwork, dedication and sportsmanship. It is an extension of what we do in the classroom. I think admissions takes all of this into account.

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

I know your question is about USNA specifically, and every academy has their own way of evaluating their candidates. However, take a look at this report about West Point: https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR700/RR723/RAND_RR723.pdf Look at the top of page 10 at the Chart 2.2. You will see this shows how they assigned points (at the time that the research was done) for Athletics that goes into their Whole Candidate Score. There are ways to get points without being a varsity letter winner, so if you are at a school in the situation described above, all is not lost. Take the advice given above and look for other opportunities, or another sport, that may not be that popular. Our local H.S. with 2400 students had extremely competitive sports programs, but some sports were not popular and it was easier to make the team and get a letter. Grant it, the Varsity letter may not be in one of the big sports that are assigned the most points (Football, basketball or baseball), but if your goal is to get a varsity letter, it might be worth considering another sport, where available. Heck they had a varsity badminton team (no kidding!) that gave opportunities to students to get a varsity letter who may not have been considered a traditional athlete. Perhaps you can become a captain of a Junior Varsity team to show your leadership. I do find it interesting in this report that it says "Team Captain" but does not specify "Varsity" team captain, when the verbiage is very specific on everything else to "Varsity" or "Junior Varsity." I do not know if they assign those points for both levels. You can also look to other "club" type sports, where you can be great - Archery, Fencing, Hockey, Judo, Marathon running, etc. where you have the potential to be ranked at a national level, even though it is not a school varsity sport. If you love playing a sport and get cut before making the varsity level, then take your love for the sport and go coach a YMCA team in that sport. Show how you turned a negative into a positive, allowing you to show your leadership skills and make a difference in the lives of young kids.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

So, if I am JV but I have a varsity time at a different, or most schools, would USNA take that into account?

I wouldn't expect Admissions to know anything about competitiveness of sports in your school, or really care. What counts the most is whether you have taken advantage of every opportunity that you have. Trying to explain that you don't have a varsity letter because the school is very competitive sounds like an excuse and would not look good on your application. If you don't have a Varsity letter, don't check the block and move onto the next point -- emphasize your strengths, not your weaknesses.

I don't work in Admissions, and I have no idea how the "voodoo" of putting a class together works, so keep that in mind when you digest my response!

This admonition should be posted as a Sticky at the top, and should be a "read and initial" before anyone reads these forums. There is some great information here, but keep in mind that unless we have an Admissions rep lurking here, most of what is posted here is simply opinion or ancedotal wisdom. All the "facts" you need to know are posted on the Admissions website, and it has been said repeatedly that candidates should read every bit, and check that source first for the answers to questions. Beyond that, the quality of the information and opinions depends largely on the personal experience of the participant. Some of the participants have some inside knowledge having been a senior officer at USNA, a BGO for an extended period of time (and attending regular training programs), or have kids that recently went through the process , but there are many issues that are raised on this Forum that have never been formally addressed, and until USNA makes a policy statement...the responses are simply opinions..

 

[AF6872]

Hockey, Field or Ice is not usually a club sport. It was at USNA for a while. The woman's team is great now and they have come a long way from about 2011. First year Field Hockey Coach high school told DD that if she did that on the street she would be charged with assault. DD told first year coach "Have you ever seen an Ice Hockey Game?"

 

[MidCakePa]

Let’s flip USNA’s “93% of appointees played varsity sports” on its head: 7% did not. That means those 7% had aspects of their application that were so brilliant that USNA was willing to overlook the lack of varsity sports. Perhaps it was another athletic activity or over-the-top academics or other-worldly leadership.

The point being, rather than looking at your school’s sports superiority as an excuse, figure out where you can otherwise shine. If varsity is truly out of reach, play JV to learn the many lessons of teamwork and to show athletic inclination. Then go find another aspect to highlight and be brilliant at that. It’s been done and you can do it too.

 

[Memphis9489]

...but there are many issues that are raised on this Forum that have never been formally addressed, and until USNA makes a policy statement...the responses are simply opinions..

I think everybody who participates in this forum in the hope of gathering useful information understands that this is not an official, USNA-sanctioned source of information. The same could be said about Wikipedia. The information there is also "simply opinions". But, when you gather a lot of people together with a wide range of experience in dealing with the admissions process, in aggregate, I think you can develop some very accurate impressions that you would never get from simply reading the Academy's admissions website. Going to that website is a certainly a must ... but it doesn't lend the granular details that can be gained from a quality forum like this.

Here is just a small example of the type of information you can get only here that you would never get from the Academy's admissions website: Candidates often come here with questions and concerns about the CFA (Candidate Fitness Assessment). The Academy never advertises (not even to the BGOs) what it takes to "pass" the CFA. So, nobody really knows what it takes. Candidates often come here saying things like, "I only did 2 pull-ups. Should I retake the CFA? Did I fail? How many do I have to do to pass?" What we've learned over time, by seeing countless successful candidates with various levels of achievement on the CFA, and by their sharing there CFA results, is that the Academy places much more emphasis on the running portion of the CFA. You should always try to do your best on all aspects of the CFA - and a candidate should certainly retake it if they think they can make some significant improvements; but, yes, you can possibly pass with only 2 pull-ups. You did not necessarily fail the CFA. The academy may consider other things about your athletic profile that will cause them to overlook this seemingly "failing" achievement.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Going to that website is a certainly a must ... but it doesn't lend the granular details that can be gained from a quality forum like this.

I'm certainly not saying there isn't alot of good information here...and this is certainly the best Forum that I have seen. I participate because I think it is helpful, and I keep learning ...but also cringe when I see opinions, presented as facts, that are likely to discourage or create unnecessary angst. This comment is not related to anything on this thread at all ...but THP's disclaimer (quoted above) caught my attention -- and should be repeated frequently . It goes beyond not being an official USNA website, but rather that the source and perspective of the input varies.