Service Selection

The most common scneario was folks wanting to go Marine Corps (Ground or Pilot) and not getting it. This happened to a few people in my company. I wouldn’t take their disappointment to be a sign of ungratefulness, entitlement, or regret. I’m sure for the most part they’re all still proud of what they’ll be doing post-graduation. It’s just that each different service assignment so profoundly influences every aspect of their life for the next 5-30 years, so when it doesn’t go the way they’d hoped, some disappointment is natural.

Most folks who come here have a very vague idea of what working in a ship, sub, aircraft, or in the MC would actually be like. That’s why we have summer cruises and mentors on the Yard representing each community. But yes, at the end of the day the needs of the Navy take precedence over individual desires. There are only so many slots for the Marine Corps, and very few slots for NSW and EOD. Trust me, this year there were some very qualified firsties that could have done great in those communities. However the service assignment committees have a tough job between the upper limits for the special communities and the quotas they have to meet for SWO and Subs.

I’ll compare it to something that comes up here a lot: Academy admissions. Every year there sre outstanding applicants who get denied even if they seemingly did everything right. It’s just an issue of numbers. Likewise there are some great midshipmen who have their heart set on USMC and are disappointed. It must really sting at first, and they have my sympathy so long as they dedicate themselves to excellence wherever they do end up.

Very true.

It just makes me chuckle that just two years ago the Marines had a massive shortfall and would take anybody with a pulse and a passing PFT, even if they didn't go to leatherneck. It goes to show you that things change often and that what the service assignment picture looks like now could be entirely different next year.
 
(it’s no fun reporting to a ship headed to the shipyard for a long period, makes it challenging to progress on warfare qualifications)
My first Nuclear Submarine after Graduation, Submarine School and a year of Nuclear Power Training with Admiral Rickover, etal, was a New Construction Boat.
It delayed my Submarine Qualification, and delayed my receipt of Submarine Pay until the boat was Commissioned, but it made me one of the best qualified toads on the river. I had inspected tanks and voids most Submariners only had dreamed about, I had participated in testing and evolutions that very few had ever seen, including Initial Reactor Criticality, and it developed a tighter bond with the men and other officers than I believe is possible outside of that environment.

My next boat was again New Construction in that same Shipyard, and my third Nuclear Boat was identical. (I also served on two Diesel Boats, one that had seen Service During WWII.)

Finally, later on in my career, I had another New Construction ship - this time in Command of 424 Men and 54 different Shops. While there, we converted to men and women in the crew and had the highest Productivity of any Tender or Repair Ship in the Atlantic Ocean.

After that, I was a significant contributor to the design of the replacement Class of Nuclear Submarines - replacing the class that I had three New Construction tours on. In the areas of Ship Silencing and Marine Acoustics I still see my hand prints over the design and continuing to the present. .

I certainly can not know for sure, but I have to wonder if a Pilot or a Army Tank Driver had the opportunity to take a year off from flying to follow his next "vehicle" for a year while it was designed, assembled, tested and Quality Controlled, whether both he or she would not have benefited and whether the Service would be better off for it.

Don't dismiss a tour in the yard because it will slow down your initial Qualification.
 
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They publish the service selections of the football team every year here
I see two guys from the football team going Submarines.

I had a Classmate that was Starter on the Football Team and was an All-American Lacrosse Player. Neal went Submarines as I did.

He was a really "man's man" - can that be said? Rough and tough, bulky, nice guy....

Submarine Underway Training was conducted on Diesel Electric Submarines - typically old WWII vintage craft - that were used to diving and surfacing dozens of times a day if needed.

When Neal went to sea Neal would get violently sea sick when we were on the surface... when we submerged and the boat leveled out, Neal would wolf down a sandwich. Thirty minutes when we surfaced, Neal would again become violently ill, etc, etc, dare I say ad nauseam?

The point being that being an All American can sometimes not be an indicator of success in different fields. Neal washed out of Submarines.
 
I think it was on the news that one of those selected for med school was the future Dr. Malcolm Perry. Congratulations to him!!!! Not only for that, but for yesterday's game result. :)
The backup Center is the football team member going to medical school
 
(it’s no fun reporting to a ship headed to the shipyard for a long period, makes it challenging to progress on warfare qualifications), etc.
I have to agree with the prior poster on this. My first sip was a new construction CGN where I was the Ordnance (missiles and gunnery) Officer and I was aboard for over a year before commissioning. While it did slow down my quals, I knew the ship inside and out far better than any other ship I ever served on. As it happened, I was the first non-nuke aboard to qualify SWO and really got the opportunity to shape my area of the ship for the decades to come. Also had a much more closely knit group aboard as we had been through so much together and in my case, fired more guns and missiles than any non-new construction ship ever got to experience.
 
"I really wouldn’t sweat getting into medical school straight out of the academy. I know many great military doctors who did a tour first, then got accepted to medical school. Personally, I think it makes you a better military doc as you actually understand your service.
My DW was an O-4 when she made the switch and went to medical school."

True-dat (dis?): Unless the goal is to make a medical career in the Navy, (acknowledging that is not a bad thing), I don't see why a kid would want the Navy to pay for Med School? Too many years to pay back. If you really want to be an MD, do your time save some cash and go to Med school when you are done. The average age of a 1st-year med student is 32yrs Old. Plenty of time, more than plenty of time, to be a doctor. Enjoy being 21-28 and a naval officer. Med Schools will look favorably on your service and your maturity when you apply. You will likely carry a little more debt into practice, but you will have years on your side in private practice.

One of DW's partners is a USNA grad; went Navy Pilot; got out went to med school; served in the reserves as an MD, called up twice (pretended he didn't want to go); joined a great anesthesia group and is now CEO of a top 3-5 hospitals in his city. That's how you do it.
 
Malcolm I believe selected Marine Ground. Also Malcolm had no hair this game which leads me to believe he is going to be jarhead. I believe the young man selected for Medical School is the back up center Eric Cal.
 
"I really wouldn’t sweat getting into medical school straight out of the academy. I know many great military doctors who did a tour first, then got accepted to medical school. Personally, I think it makes you a better military doc as you actually understand your service.
My DW was an O-4 when she made the switch and went to medical school."

True-dat (dis?): Unless the goal is to make a medical career in the Navy, (acknowledging that is not a bad thing), I don't see why a kid would want the Navy to pay for Med School? Too many years to pay back. If you really want to be an MD, do your time save some cash and go to Med school when you are done. The average age of a 1st-year med student is 32yrs Old. Plenty of time, more than plenty of time, to be a doctor. Enjoy being 21-28 and a naval officer. Med Schools will look favorably on your service and your maturity when you apply. You will likely carry a little more debt into practice, but you will have years on your side in private practice.

One of DW's partners is a USNA grad; went Navy Pilot; got out went to med school; served in the reserves as an MD, called up twice (pretended he didn't want to go); joined a great anesthesia group and is now CEO of a top 3-5 hospitals in his city. That's how you do it.

This makes a lot of sense to me ... my son brought this up as the other option.

I think he would lean towards serving his country in navy.
 
I have run into quite a few USNA grad docs over my military and corporate careers. Some have been right out of USNA, some applied to go while on AD, some got out, used their GI Bill and state benefits to go to med school, and applied for commission in the Navy. One of my docs, USNA grad, went to USUHS right away, did time in the Navy as a doc, is now with the Guard and in private practice. One of my USNA grad company officer LTs at USNA, a warfare officer, did some biology and chem refresher courses at night, applied to go to med school, killed the MCAT. Navy paid for med school, during which he was inactive Reserve with a stipend. He then returned to AD with a Med Corps Officer designator for his internship, residency and career.

There are many paths. NROTC and OCS grads can also do this, with the exception of going direct from their commissioning source, though I always allow for exceptions.

One principle always rules: needs of the Navy. My company officer had his lateral transfer approved because the medical community said “we want him and we have the space for him” and his URL community said “we are willing to let him go, and we have enough excess in our community in his year group to do it.”
 
The average age of a 1st-year med student is 32yrs Old.
One of my daughters is in her first few months as a Med Student, she is 26.
By the way, one of her teachers is a retired Navy Doctor who went to USNA after serving as an enlisted Marine.
 
"I really wouldn’t sweat getting into medical school straight out of the academy. I know many great military doctors who did a tour first, then got accepted to medical school. Personally, I think it makes you a better military doc as you actually understand your service.
My DW was an O-4 when she made the switch and went to medical school."

True-dat (dis?): Unless the goal is to make a medical career in the Navy, (acknowledging that is not a bad thing), I don't see why a kid would want the Navy to pay for Med School? Too many years to pay back. If you really want to be an MD, do your time save some cash and go to Med school when you are done. The average age of a 1st-year med student is 32yrs Old. Plenty of time, more than plenty of time, to be a doctor. Enjoy being 21-28 and a naval officer. Med Schools will look favorably on your service and your maturity when you apply. You will likely carry a little more debt into practice, but you will have years on your side in private practice.

One of DW's partners is a USNA grad; went Navy Pilot; got out went to med school; served in the reserves as an MD, called up twice (pretended he didn't want to go); joined a great anesthesia group and is now CEO of a top 3-5 hospitals in his city. That's how you do it.
DW was a pilot before she went to medical school, but she went with military paying for medical school. Aviation to medical school does seem common. My cousin went that route as well- he was a Navy pilot:
It’s very common for doctors to do other things first, but once you’re a doc it’s tough to do anything else. Though I did hear of one Air Force flight surgeon who decided he wanted to be a pilot and got accepted to flight school. But not a very common route.
 
The average age of a 1st-year med student is 32yrs Old.

This stat seemed off, so went to double check. The average age of an MS1 according to the AAMC is 24/25.


Starting medical school at 32 would not be ideal in my mind, it’s possible and several a year do it, but that puts you starting residency at 36/37 and graduating from 40+. Residency is a young persons game, 80hrs a week, 6 days a week. Doing it older and/or with kids is just more pain to an already painful period of one’s life ( speaking from experience here).
 
These losses thru graduation are significantly below classes prior to 1980.
> It's a different world now. There is no longer the philosophy that 1/3 won't make it through. I've seen Supe, Dant and Academic Dean all emphasize that everyone CAN make it, if they try. Dropping out during Plebe Summer is almost unheard of now.

True-dat (dis?): Unless the goal is to make a medical career in the Navy, (acknowledging that is not a bad thing), I don't see why a kid would want the Navy to pay for Med School? Too many years to pay back. If you really want to be an MD, do your time save some cash and go to Med school when you are done

> Your comment is probably true if you want to go to Med School, become a specialist, and make mountains of money. However, people go to med school for a variety of reasons. Some really like serving in the Navy. One of my classmates retired a couple years , 5 years as a SW0, and 20+ as a pediatrician in the Navy. He had a very rewarding career, and retired to public health clinic down south.
 
I've seen Supe, Dant and Academic Dean all emphasize that everyone CAN make it, if they try.
Are you suggesting that young men and women at the SA's are somehow tougher now than the young men of my day, or does the explanation lie in the fact that the demands and pressures have changed?

In any event, there can be no doubt that the goal of the Academy has changed dramatically.
 
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I think the goal is to graduate, not to weed them out ... more emphasis on help. There is no pity in seeking help. I think it is welcomed.
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OK. I'll put you down as believing, " the explanation lie(s) in the fact that the demands and pressures have changed"

You think the "goal" at any time was to weed "them" out? Wow!
 
I expect that every class thinks the classes behind them all had it easier. That's human nature, and the times have indeed changed. They are changing all the time.

In the past, I gather that there was a "weeding out" phase that lasted all four years. I think that phase is confined to Plebe Summer now.
 
OK. I'll put you down as believing, " the explanation lie(s) in the fact that the demands and pressures have changed"

You think the "goal" at any time was to weed "them" out? Wow!

Someone can correct me ... but I saw a video either on I Day or at CVW put on by admissions that said years ago they weren’t interested in developing everyone to succeed (weeding out the weak) and they changed their philosophy to provide assistance so everyone could succeed.
 
“Not unhappy” to see you go may be a better choice of words than weeding out.

No two people learn things the same way .... different angles to solve a problem, and so on. I think getting help is built-in now.
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