Settle a 'dispute' please!

justdoit19

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DS and I are having a 'discussion'. He has two nom's listed in his USNA portal (we know where one came from, do not know where the other one did. He has completed all interviews). He is saying he DOESN'T need to still apply for the VP nom. I say he does. I have looked around, and not fully understanding the correct answer to the debate: does having two nom's INCREASE his chances of an appointment (and support applying for VP)? Does he ONLY need ONE nom (and therefore applying to VP is not necessary)? We both agree applying for VP is no bid deal....it's an easy one. But help settle this dispute!
 

HawkKnight21

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Great question! Having multiple nominations increases not only appointment chances but also makes it easier for USNA admissions. Representatives nominate up to ten students (sometimes they rank, sometimes they list a preferred one, it varies by rep) but only one of those nominees are selected. If your son has a nomination from his representative and the VP, USNA can choose which nomination to use. Thus, USNA can use his VP nomination to allow another qualified student nominated by your representative to attend the academy. Nevertheless, the VP nomination is easy to complete and it cannot hurt to apply. Although he nominates only a few students a year, it is a free opportunity for success! However, there is a real possibility that even though your son was nominated by your representative he will not be selected from that list. Tell your DS to apply; you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
 

NavyHoops

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It is recommended that candidates apply for all Noms available to them. So yes, apply for the VP as it’s a few minutes of time. There is debate if more than 1 Nom helps a candidate’s chances or not. Being able to be charged to more than one slate I would have to think is a good thing.
 

Ravens

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Applying to VP also shows SA that you are motivated and didn't leave nothing to chance. They strongly encourage a candidate to apply to all sources that are available. Leaving this one slide could send a message that you just settled for the path of least resistance since you felt "comfortable" with your odds since you already have 2 nominations. I would highly suggest you complete the request for the VP nom. Good Luck
 

kinnem

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Each nom should be thought of as a lottery ticket, so to speak. With each nom your are in competition with a different group of people for an appointment. In your son's case three lottery tickets are better than two. More is always better when it comes to noms. I know of people who lost their slates but got in on a VP nom. Do NOT miss this opportunity. Besides... it only takes a few minutes online as I recall.
 

justdoit19

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Great question! Having multiple nominations increases not only appointment chances but also makes it easier for USNA admissions. Representatives nominate up to ten students (sometimes they rank, sometimes they list a preferred one, it varies by rep) but only one of those nominees are selected. If your son has a nomination from his representative and the VP, USNA can choose which nomination to use. Thus, USNA can use his VP nomination to allow another qualified student nominated by your representative to attend the academy. Nevertheless, the VP nomination is easy to complete and it cannot hurt to apply. Although he nominates only a few students a year, it is a free opportunity for success! However, there is a real possibility that even though your son was nominated by your representative he will not be selected from that list. Tell your DS to apply; you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

....aaaaaannd I WIN the debate (high five)!

Another question: The list that was released from this one Senator, had 10 for each of the service academies (as I expected), and 18 to West Point. Any insight into that? How can they nominate so many?
 
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Great question! Having multiple nominations increases not only appointment chances but also makes it easier for USNA admissions. Representatives nominate up to ten students (sometimes they rank, sometimes they list a preferred one, it varies by rep) but only one of those nominees are selected. If your son has a nomination from his representative and the VP, USNA can choose which nomination to use. Thus, USNA can use his VP nomination to allow another qualified student nominated by your representative to attend the academy. Nevertheless, the VP nomination is easy to complete and it cannot hurt to apply. Although he nominates only a few students a year, it is a free opportunity for success! However, there is a real possibility that even though your son was nominated by your representative he will not be selected from that list. Tell your DS to apply; you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

....aaaaaannd I WIN the debate (high five)!

Another question: The list that was released from this one Senator, had 10 for each of the service academies (as I expected), and 18 to West Point. Any insight into that? How can they nominate so many?
Chances are, this was the Senator's year to have two candidate slots. Each MoC is allotted 5 cadets/midshipmen in each of the service academies (USCGA and USMMA excluded), so it usually works out that every 4 years, a MoC gets two candidate slots for an academy, and thus was able to nominate up to 20 people for both of those slots.
 

time2

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There is debate if more than 1 Nom helps a candidate’s chances or not.
I agree, if more was better, then the MOC's who coordinate to avoid duplicate NOM's would actually be reducing the 'chance' for an appointment for a given applicant. Having more NOM's does provide USNA more flexibility on where NOM is eventually charged.

USNA recommends you apply to all NOM's for which you are eligible so I would follow that guidance. (You can find that statement on the official USNA website.)
 

usna1985

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The list that was released from this one Senator, had 10 for each of the service academies (as I expected), and 18 to West Point. Any insight into that? How can they nominate so many?
Agree with above poster that the Senator likely had two slots for USMA this year. If true and he/she only nominated 18 (leaving two slots open), that suggests competition isn't all that keen for WP in that particular state. Or, it's a small state and there just aren't that many qualified folks interested in attending a SA.
 

USMA 1994

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I’m not sure I agree with all this flexibility talk and we may be giving people the wrong idea. To gain an appointment, you must have a nomination. Each nomination source has a set number of appointments, MOC 1 per year, Presidential 100, ROTC 20, etc. For each nomination, you compete for that appointment. Having more than one nomination allows you to compete more than one time. I’m not sure the lottery ticket is the correct analogy as it implies luck. You could have five nominations and if you are the last ranked candidate on each slate you have less chance of an appointment than a candidate who just has one nomination but is the highest ranked candidate on that slate. The only time flexibility would come in to play is if the candidate is ranked on top of a multiple slates like Senator and Representative’s. They could “slot” the #1 candidate to the Senator and then the #2 candidate on the Representative’s slate would get an offer. NWL and AA appointments are at large and you do not have to win a slate. Bottom line is to apply to everything you are eligible for.
 

THParent

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Bet settled. You win. :) Your DS should apply to all available nomination sources.
The VPOTUS nomination thing is entirely online, and due on or before January 31st.
I seem to remember my DS telling me that he had to write an essay for that online application.
 

justdoit19

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I’m not sure I agree with all this flexibility talk and we may be giving people the wrong idea. To gain an appointment, you must have a nomination. Each nomination source has a set number of appointments, MOC 1 per year, Presidential 100, ROTC 20, etc. For each nomination, you compete for that appointment. Having more than one nomination allows you to compete more than one time. I’m not sure the lottery ticket is the correct analogy as it implies luck. You could have five nominations and if you are the last ranked candidate on each slate you have less chance of an appointment than a candidate who just has one nomination but is the highest ranked candidate on that slate. The only time flexibility would come in to play is if the candidate is ranked on top of a multiple slates like Senator and Representative’s. They could “slot” the #1 candidate to the Senator and then the #2 candidate on the Representative’s slate would get an offer. NWL and AA appointments are at large and you do not have to win a slate. Bottom line is to apply to everything you are eligible for.
Interesting....brings up this question in my mind: So do the academies select the highest ranked candidates from any given slate, that matches their highest rated whole person score? In other words, just because you are ranked number one on a slate, doesn't mean an academy will select that number one (aside from the slotting of #1 and #2 you refer too....).

As I read you, the number one slotted candidate is the one that is appointed, aside from already being appointed from another slate as you mentioned. I wonder why they present 10, as this all seems to indicate only the top few are selected...

Is it rude to ask where you are slated? I am thinking yes. Perhaps not?

Side note: DS had already decided to apply to VP. I have just had some curious ponderings.
 

time2

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I would NOT ask the MOC where you are slated. Some MOC submit an unranked slate and what they did in a prior year may not be what they do this year. Even if you knew you were ranked #1 for your NOM, USNA (for example) no longer tells applicants if they are 3Q, so you would still be missing that part of the equation.
 

justdoit19

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A couple more questions: Is an appointment tied to a nomination source then? Are you then accepting that one nomination (DS has 2)? Or are nom's not "accepted" in a formal way. I started searching around and this issue became unclear to me. Also, regarding specifically USNA, after you receive a nom, are you notified if you are '3Q'ed'? or if you are NOT 3Q'ed, are you then rejected? DS has passed dodmrb, and everything else as far as we know, so does that mean he is indeed '3Q'ed"?
 
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A couple more questions: Is an appointment tied to a nomination source then? Are you then accepting that one nomination (DS has 2)? Or are nom's not "accepted" in a formal way. I started searching around and this issue became unclear to me. Also, regarding specifically USNA, after you receive a nom, are you notified if you are '3Q'ed'? or if you are NOT 3Q'ed, are you then rejected? DS has passed dodmrb, and everything else as far as we know, so does that mean he is indeed '3Q'ed"?
1. Yes, every appointment is tied to a nomination source, in one way or another, whether its a congressional nomination, a presidential nomination, or any other nomination source.
2. You don't have to officially "accept" nominations (I didn't have to last year when I was nominated), I believe you're just passively named as someone who has been nominated by that source. It's not like an appointment, where you have to send a letter or a message formally accepting your appointment.
3. If you have multiple nominations, if/when you receive an appointment, USNA will "charge" you under one of your nominations slots, and the other one will go to someone else. More simply put, if you have nominations from Senator A and Senator B, USNA may appoint you, but your slot may be charged under Senator A, meaning you won't be charged under Senator B. This means another nominated candidate can be slotted under Senator B.
4. You will not be notified if you are 3Q, even if you have received a nomination. You can likely assume you are 3Q if you have good CFA scores, a good academic history, and you've passed the DoDMERB exam, but there's really no way to know for sure if you are 3Q until you have an appointment in your hand. As far as I know, not being 3Q will disqualify you from being considered for an appointment, unless it's a DoDMERB related issue, in which case, you can apply for a medical waiver. Additionally, while they may know if you are or aren't, your BGO and Regional Admissions Counselor WILL NOT tell you if you're 3Q.
 

time2

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You will not be notified if you are 3Q......
Actually, that varies by SA. USNA does NOT tell applicants if they are 3Q but some of the other SA's do. This is a general NOM thread and not only related to USNA.

It is not a good idea to assume your 3Q status and that is part of the reason why those 'chance me' threads can me misleading. None of us work in admissions, so offering guesses about such things is really not appropriate.
 

Old Navy BGO

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I agree, if more was better, then the MOC's who coordinate to avoid duplicate NOM's would actually be reducing the 'chance' for an appointment for a given applicant. Having more NOM's does provide USNA more flexibility on where NOM is eventually charged.
Very true -- but I suspect that many don't fully understand how the process works, or perhaps their objective is to reach as many of their constituents as possible. I suspect the coordination happens more at the Senate level , and withing a political party.
 
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