Someone please tell me this is "Fake News"

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Jcleppe, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe 5-Year Member

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  2. AJC

    AJC Member

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    it is true.
     
  3. unkown1961

    unkown1961 Member

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  4. Chockstock

    Chockstock "Forever One Team" 10-Year Member

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    That is one helluva story, the military sure is one great melting pot of all kinds of folk. Looks like the special operations community is no exception either!
     
  5. Hurricane12

    Hurricane12 USNA 2012 5-Year Member

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    Had something similar happen in one of the west coast squadrons a while back, a Marine was moonlighting doing gay porn. Some poor officer who had to "review" that Marine's body of work as part of the investigation...
     
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  6. cb7893

    cb7893 5-Year Member

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    Stay tuned. Late night joke writers will have had a full 48 hours to work on this one.

    Forget the moralistic and jingoistic praise heaped on the Military in general and SOF in particular. I guess if bankruptcy and adultery aren't disqualifying, then why would the prospect of public mockery and humiliation (up and down the chain) be a deterrent.
     
  7. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    I can just picture the look on the poor LT or above who was assigned this investigation. As the LegalO I saw plenty of those looks but we never had one this good! We had some close to this. My guess is he is hit with some stuff but ultimately allowed to retire.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  8. xyz321

    xyz321 Member

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    It is funny, but honestly, why should his punishment be less than that received by the women who were cited in the article?
     
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  9. 1337BeachedWhale1337

    1337BeachedWhale1337 Member

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    Taking away someone's retirement that they worked 23 years for is much more severe than involuntarily separating someone, who might have only been in the service 3 years and was planning on getting out in a few months anyway.
     
  10. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    As Hoops noted, you can see some interesting stuff happen in military misconduct. Unlike the civilian world, the chain of command has a front row seat, whether for military or civilian cases.

    For the lurkers here without a military background, junior officers are assigned collateral duties in addition to their primary duty, such as Legal Officer, at commands not big enough to have its own JAG. Sometimes Legal Officer can be full-time. To this fortunate soul falls the duty of following up misconduct cases, coordinating with the installation JAGs at Legal Services or the court-martial convening authority in the chain of command, or discussing and preparing cases for Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP, Captain's Mast, Office Hours, UCMJ Article 15 proceedings, by various names) and other administrative matters. I did my time as a Legal Officer... had my eyes opened as to the span of Stuff Humans Feel Compelled To Do. Or Say. Or Not Do. Or Lie About.

    I always think I should have written down all the stories from my time as XO of a large Naval Station, with a destroyer squadron, amphibs, the last two working battleships, and multiple large tenant commands. The CO and I, after a visit from our Station JAG, or NCIS, or the Surface Group Commander's JAG, or on special days, the FBI or State/City Police, would shake our heads after being briefed on the incident du jour, as we sat reviewing the day after working hours.

    One of the most memorable, and saddest, was the group of junior military wives, who, finding their budgets tight, instead of working at the NEX or Commissary or being entrepreneurial with Tupperware or Mary Kay, chose to make home porn videos and sell them. Husbands were all deployed. This was just before the internet's widespread use, where there were lots of corner video stores with an over-18 back room. Suffice it to say, the Navy being a small world sometimes, they were recognized. What a stinking pile. Heck of a homecoming for the sailors, to find their wives arrested and charged, kids in CPS custody, facing eviction from base housing (scene of the crime), and shattered marriages.

    One of the funny-sad results of DOD finally getting the DEERS (Defense Eligibility Enrollment System), source of all ID cards, fully digitized in a universal database with internal fraud controls and integration with TRICARE medical, and personnel records, was the number of sailors identified who had wives and kids in San Diego, Norfolk and the Philippines, all with ID cards, all using medical and dental benefits, all using the Commissary and Exchange. Oh my. I can't recall how many shame-faced and slightly terrified sailors I faced across my desk. The good thing is the kids all received benefits, as acknowledged dependents, and the dust eventually settled.

    Nothing about the original story surprises me. Humans...
     
  11. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    While our unit was deployed we had a handful of spouses who were running a prostitution ring. Weird stuff happens all over the military. As a young JO you will often be assigned to run the JAGMAN investigation. As you get more senior, generally less investigations, but if you do get assigned, they are usually more senior folks involved and the stranger they get.
     
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  12. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator 10-Year Member

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    CaptMJ...as an AF guy that has done that same job, at the squadron, group, wing, and air division level...as well as a commander, etc...I'm totally in synch with you...too many times I sat with a senior officer, or one of my juniors, and just shook my head.

    Your post is spot-on.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe 5-Year Member

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    I don't think anyone is able to assume when a service member plans on getting out. An involuntary separation follows you for a long time and certainly does not do you any favors when looking for work.

    I'm not sure the criteria for punishment should be how long you have been in the service and how long you were able to get away with it, if you're close to retirement.....no problem....we'll just slap you on the wrist and give you your pension. If you're only in a few years then we'll throw the book at you and make it as difficult as possible in your future.
     
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  14. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    Any group of us together would have about 50% war/air/sea stories of "there I was," and the OTHER 50% would be "yeah, I couldn't believe it, I had this sailor who did x, then did y, told us z...". All of us, regardless of service, would be nodding our heads and occasionally howling. We share many sea stories with our USNA sponsor family, and we know they listen with a bit of suspended belief...until they have sailors and Marines of their own. Then, when they are back to visit as JOs, they are telling their own stories, and acknowledging no exaggeration was required.


    Another one, not involving sex, amazingly, was the sailor's spouse who was from another country. While he was deployed, she decided she missed her home country's way of cooking, and hollowed out and built a make-shift fire pit in the front room of her military housing near the window. Neighbors called it in as a fire due to the smoke, and her renovation was discovered. No one hurt. CO and I tried to keep our game faces on but couldn't look at each other.



    To circle back to the original story, fake news or not, it's happened and happening, and just another chapter in The Things Humans Do.

    Edit: Lest anyone think by my samples that only enlisted personnel get into crazy spots, there are plenty of officers who do too. Those have the potential to be really nasty - witness the ongoing Fat Leonard corruption investigation (admirals getting incarceration!) and the Marine major formerly at USNA, who finally pled guilty just last week in his sex-related case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  15. galileo.galilei

    galileo.galilei Member

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    Capt MJ, you certainly have some stories to tell! Enjoyed reading this... I imagine you have stories that would fill a book or two! There are parallels in the civilian world as well, when certain violations are raised to those higher ups... Although I admit, I haven't come across anything as life altering as these incidents are. My stories are very tame in comparison..
     
  16. Sandydesert

    Sandydesert Member

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    Isn't 42 years old getting up there in terms of the average SEAL age? When I hear "SEAL", I tend to think 21-35 year olds.
     
  17. xyz321

    xyz321 Member

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    Also apparently quite elderly for a porn star
     
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  18. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    There are plenty of SEALs in that age range. Many enlisted come in a little later and some even with degrees before they enlist for the SEALs. As we all know the body does break down, especially when pushing it to the levels they do. If you read some do the books like American Sniper it actually discusses this.
     
  19. 1337BeachedWhale1337

    1337BeachedWhale1337 Member

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    How does an involuntary separation follow you in a negative manner? If I understand correctly, people can be involuntarily separated for things like not getting promoted fast enough. So if a Lt Colonel doesn't get promoted to Colonel and gets separated for that, that's going to follow them and hurt their chances of finding a job in the future?

    I never said that how long someone has been in should be criteria for punishment, I said that the severity of taking away his retirement(which implies involuntary separation as well) is greater than simply being separated. Seperating someone who's been in the military for 23 years AND taking away their retirement pay is a lot more severe than separating someone who has been in the military for 2 months. In the former, you are punishing them in 2 ways while in the latter you are only punishing them in one. Not taking away the man's retirement but still seperating him would not be "less" of punishment than what the women received, it would be equal. It says in the article that the women were involuntarily separated for their actions, so an equal punishment for this guy would be involuntarily separating him.
     
  20. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    There are different types of separation from the military. An admin separation is fairly minor and can be for general inability to adapt, family issues, fitness failures, Weight issues, medical things that don't qualify for med boards (mostly people who want to get out for stuff medical can't substantiate) and conduct issues. Essentially they get a Honorable or General (under honorable conditions) discharge. A service member can decline this and request a Court Martial. Since the chief is so senior it's not as simple as he automatically rates a board of admin sep is chosen. First term enlistment or junior enlisted doesn't have much recourse unless they want to challenge in a Court Martial.

    If the Chief is Court Martialed and is found guilty he could face brig time, confined to quarters, fines, loss of rank and a non-favorable discharge such as Bad Conduct Discharge, Other than Honorable. That could have an impact on future employment. If found guilty at Court Martial that is the equivalent of being found guilty in civilian court and they would have to mark that if asked if they have been found guilty in court.

    Being passed over for promotion or not receiving career retention is different. Future employers would not know the difference because they would either separate or retire with an Honorable discharge. They did nothing wrong in this case and life goes on.