sports in college (a question for the BGO's)

[VMINROTChopeful]

from a posting on the CC board:

However, college participation is still very important. Those in a Cadet program at a Senior Military College most likely have less expected of them - as far as campus involvement goes - than "civilian" college students (after all, some of those schools can rival the academy in time demands). Participating in a sport of some kind is a still a must, though.

i
have a question about sports. so say that you're in a corps of cadets program (say at VMI or the Citadel). to be in a varsity sport (NCAA!) will take a minimum of 25hrs/week of practice. that combined with drilling and PT is time away from studying. i think between cadet programs and NROTC, there is 15-25 hrs/week right there. so sports, cadet-stuff, and NROTC could suck up 40-50 hrs/week.

is it really that important to be an NCAA athlete if you are applying from a college NROTC corps of cadet program?

or could you make up for it in some other way?

i definitely have enough varsity-level sports (i think) to have applied to USNA directly from high school, but next year in college, i'm not sure, since to be an NCAA athlete is a huge commitment which will certainly hit my grades, especially at an NCAA division 1 school (VMI is div1). i pretty sure if i run 50mi/wk during the off-season, i could make the 20:45 time needed on 5km for me to make the girl's cross-country team at VMI, but i'm afraid that this could entirely backfire on me.

do the BGO's here have any advice about this? how important is this if you were an athlete in high school, but then go to college and are not one?

(i posted this on CC, so if you saw it there, just ignore this posting here)

 

[usna1985]

I don't think there is any requirement to be an NCAA varsity athlete to gain admission to USNA any more than there is a requirement to be a varsity athlete once you're there. USNA recognizes that many people who are h.s. varsity athletes are not good enough to play at the varsity level in college. For example, I played h.s. volleyball but am WAY too short to play at a college level.

What USNA is looking for re athletics is: (1) you are physically fit and, in particular, fit enough to do well during plebe summer and in the physical activities required over your four years; and (2) you have experienced the various benefits of having participated in a (preferably) team sport.

You can do this in a number of ways. One is strong performance on the CFA. Another is doing well in varsity h.s. athletics. A third, which I will discuss more below, is participating in non-school sports. About 90% of the incoming class will be h.s. varsity athletes. That is probably a combination of the following: people who are varsity athletes and people who want to attend SAs are often the same people and SAs seek out varsity athletes for the reasons mentioned above.

If you're in college now, I suggest participating on some form of organized sport to demonstrate that you are remaining fit and also have a continued interest in sports. That could be a club sport, intramural, or even a non-school sport, such as an adult league. Sports that require running are typically better (soccer, basketball, track, etc.) than those that are more sedentary (bowling, etc.).

You can also do individual sports, such as triathlons. The "problem" with such activities (and this is true of h.s. athletes as well) is that it is difficult for USNA to measure your aptitude. Thus, you improve your position if you can quantify your ability. For example, "I ran the Boston triathlon and finished #3 of 300 women." Or, "I was state champion in the 200 meter breaststroke."

Non-school sports present more issues -- BTW, this is not my view but that of USNA Admissions. If you say, "I swim in the Dolphin league," it means nothing unless the Dolphin league is somehow nationally known. Maybe you just putter down the pool once a month. Maybe the Dolphin league consists of just you, which is why you are also team captain. Maybe your league is the best in the state -- it's just hard for them to know. Thus, for USNA purposes, it is very important to do what you can to quantify your achievements in things like judo, fencing, ice-skating, etc. -- which are typically done individually or in non-school leagues -- so that USNA knows it was a real athletic activity.

Hope this helps.

 

[USNA69]

I can only add two things to this. First, each individual rejection is unique. Most will be academic related. However, some aren't. It is imperative that you know from your RD what they feel that you need in order to boost your package. For a very few, it may be organized sports.

Secondly, please do not accept an athletic scholarship if you truly intend to reapply. The coach may think that he owns you. His definition of a successful student is one who is passing, not one who is taking challenging courses. He may insist that your curriculum consist of Theater Appreciation and Comparative Religion instead of Chemistry and Calculus.

 

[Zaphod]

Secondly, please do not accept an athletic scholarship if you truly intend to reapply. The coach may think that he owns you. His definition of a successful student is one who is passing, not one who is taking challenging courses. He may insist that your curriculum consist of Theater Appreciation and Comparative Religion instead of Chemistry and Calculus.

Wow. I'd never considered that.

Is it possible for a coach to actually dictate what courses one of his athletes is taking?

 

[VMINROTChopeful]

Wow. I'd never considered that.

Is it possible for a coach to actually dictate what courses one of his athletes is taking?

well, that's understandable. if you don't pass, you lose NCAA eligibility. so if you are any good, the coach wants to make sure you at least pass. if you take calc and chem, and then spend 25hrs/week at practice, your chance of passing is that much worse, i guess. that's one of the issues i'm worried about right now.

check out this real life test for college basketball players:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/quiz?event_id=600

 

[VMINROTChopeful]

What USNA is looking for re athletics is: (1) you are physically fit and, in particular, fit enough to do well during plebe summer and in the physical activities required over your four years; and (2) you have experienced the various benefits of having participated in a (preferably) team sport.

You can do this in a number of ways. One is strong performance on the CFA. Another is doing well in varsity h.s. athletics. A third, which I will discuss more below, is participating in non-school sports.

so assuming that i document varsity sports in high school. and participation in some "club" sports in college at a school like VMI, and i give a strong performance on the CFA, then in the eyes of the USNA Admissions, i might be forgiven lack of college participation in a NCAA varsity sport?

the Navy has these performance standards for the PRT. does the USNA have any performance standards on the CFA which i can look at? I found the maximum performance standards at: http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/paeinstructions
but i don't see how these events are scored for those who are not at the maximum in a particular event.

also, i have a side question, why are some of these events even necessary as part of the CFA? does anyone know? for example, in the fleet, you don't have to ever be tested on throwing a basketball again. nor pullups or shuttle-runs. why does USNA require these 3 tests when you'll never see them again after you are commissioned?

 

[usnahopeful]

VMINROTChopeful, I may be able to answer your second question:
The basketball throw all has to do with showing your rotator cuff ability and also the strength of your shoulder (it would not be a good idea to show up at the Academy not being able to move your shoulder and not having good shoulder muscles ), the shuttle run tests your agility basically, pullups are an important physical exercise for the lats, and your other back muscles- again it is important to show up with a strong overall muscle composition because this will inevitably help you (especially through the confidence course, etc.)
I hope this helps; this is what my BGO told me when I asked him the same question.
Respectfully,
Kathleen

Good luck at VMI!

 

[usna1985]

does the USNA have any performance standards on the CFA which i can look at?

They provide BGOs with averages for males & females in some of the disciplines. However, I'm not aware of any scoring chart. Moreover, what will get you into USNA is typically not enough to do well during plebe summer. USNA puts particular emphasis on pullups and the run. For males, 10 pullups and 1.5 miles in less than 10:00 is good. People get in with lower scores but I would strive for this as a minimum.

also, i have a side question, why are some of these events even necessary as part of the CFA?

Several reasons. First, the CFA is used for all SAs. Thus, it represents a combination of what various SAs are looking for. Second, each event tests a certain aspect of your overall physical ability. Pullups are representative upper body strength. Shuttle run demonstrates quickness and fitness.

Finally, if you attend USNA, you will do A LOT of things you'll never, ever be required to do in the Fleet. Chow calls. Marching (USN, at least). Sailing sailboats. If you're looking for the military to make sense . . . doesn't always happen. If you don't believe me, watch M*A*S*H reruns.

 

[VMINROTChopeful]

They provide BGOs with averages for males & females in some of the disciplines. However, I'm not aware of any scoring chart. Moreover, what will get you into USNA is typically not enough to do well during plebe summer. USNA puts particular emphasis on pullups and the run. For males, 10 pullups and 1.5 miles in less than 10:00 is good. People get in with lower scores but I would strive for this as a minimum.

thanks! can you give me what the good scores might be on those events for a female?

and if i want to have my performance on CFA partially offset lack of varsity sports in college (as mentioned before, i do have varsity letters from high school), should i be shooting for a CFA that is in the top 20% or so?