Starting new foreign language at USNA

[bgreat]

I plan on minoring in Arabic at the USNA, but I have no prior experience with the language (in high school, I took French). I am wondering if it is not a good idea because I'm more interested in Arabic than in French, but I have no experience in Arabic.

I want to take Arabic because I know its one of the most challenging languages to learn. Also, I am partially Arabic, so I want to also learn about my culture.

 

[usna1985]

Unless things have changed (and they may have), there are two ways to start a foreign language at USNA. The first is too major in that language -- this is offered in Chinese and Arabic. To do that, you express an interest and USNA gauges your aptitude for the language. If it's a good fit, you start on the language plebe year.

The second is to work it into your schedule. The easiest way is to be a Group 3 (humanities) major. Group 3 majors must (or used to be required to) take or validate 2 years of language, which could be at the intro level (100/200 level courses). A harder way is was a Group 1/2 (STEM) major. Group 1/2 majors can take language as one of their humanities distribution requirement courses, but, if memory serves, that must be the 300/400 level, which would be an advanced language course. If you have a lot of free time in your schedule due to validation, you could presumably take the 100/200 level courses plebe or youngster year and either quit or continue with advanced language as a distribution elective in your 2/C or 1/C year.

Bottom line: it's doable but probably not as easy as it would be a a civilian college.

 

[jrw0531]

I plan on minoring in Arabic at the USNA, but I have no prior experience with the language (in high school, I took French). I am wondering if it is not a good idea because I'm more interested in Arabic than in French, but I have no experience in Arabic.

I want to take Arabic because I know its one of the most challenging languages to learn. Also, I am partially Arabic, so I want to also learn about my culture.

Yes, it would be fine to take another language class if you are interested. The only thing I'd say is a language class will just add more credit hours/load onto your course work. While most of your classmates might take 18/19 credits, you might be in 21. This can be tough plebe year, especially with all the mandated classes you have to do.

Also, some majors will not allow you or highly dissuade you from taking an additional language course. Engineering majors in particular are weary about plebes/youngsters adding on courses that aren't in your matrix. I was told not to take more French because of my computer engineering major. I'm also not sure if they let plebes take language classes in the fall.

However, do what your passionate about and what you think you can handle! Have fun and good luck

 

[Capt MJ]

See how you settle into academics (and all other graded areas!) at USNA, work with your academic advisor, be open to different approaches. Take the long view. If it doesn’t make sense for you to try to minor in Arabic or otherwise fit it in, you have another 60-80 years on the planet to work it in.

And, find these videos “One Minute (Language)” from Coffee Break Academy on YouTube, have some fun testing out your affinity for the language. See screenshot below.

And, you can often access free e-copies of Rosetta Stone language courses through the Cloud Library or Overdrive or other e-book app from your local library. If you have a library card, go to the library website to explore their e-offerings and available apps, download the app on your phone or tablet, register with your library card info, and see what they have. I am actually working on Gaelic on Rosetta Stone via my Cloud Library app supported by my county library. I try to do 3 sessions a week. Keeps a different part of my brain active.

This is the sample Rosetta Stone link from my own library:

Rosetta Stone Library Solution | Anne Arundel County Public Library

Improve your English or learn another language. An effective, easy-to-use program that allows you to learn a new language on your own time.

www.aacpl.net

One of our USNA sponsor family midshipmen was adopted at birth from another country. They are learning their country of origin language as a way to take a mental break from USNA studies. They want to get a feel for it, plan to take more formal courses later when they can.

 

[nuensis]

that must be the 300/400 level, which would be an advanced language course.

Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and Russian language courses taken at the 100-level may fulfill HUM/SS requirements for STEM majors.

USNA Core Curriculum *

Course Requirements - Core page for Academics at USNA.edu. Updated Tue Jun 25 16:21:52 EDT 2024.

www.usna.edu

Assuming you are a STEM major and you fill both HUM/SS slots with Arabic, the minor would require four additional courses for you to overload, validate, or move (i.e. take during summer school).

Validation also does not count for credit, and therefore any language validation cannot be used towards the 18 credit requirement for a minor.

Learning a language well takes a mix of talent and motivation. It's worth trying out, and you can always just drop the minor if it becomes too much. There is no penalty for abandoning a minor or dual major later on, as long as you are still on track to graduate with your primary major.

The challenge is the same with any topic you will see for the first time at USNA. Most MIDN will meet that same challenge with Plebe and 2/C Cyber. Some will pick it up quick with sheer talent. Some will hold on by sheer motivation. Most will be somewhere in the middle.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
It looks like Rosetta Stone has Arabic while Babbel doesn’t list it … you could try learning on your own to start …
.

 

[LT360]

DS ('25) is Group 3 major and took Arabic for first time this past year and has to take again next year. He plans on taking it as well his Firstie year as long as schedule allows. Note that he is a Group 3 major and validated several classes so his class load is not overloaded. It is his first experience with Arabic (spanish in HS) and did well. However he is highly motivated by the prospect of a potential language bonus that can be obtained in AD.

 

[WT Door]

DS ('25) is Group 3 major and took Arabic for first time this past year and has to take again next year. He plans on taking it as well his Firstie year as long as schedule allows. Note that he is a Group 3 major and validated several classes so his class load is not overloaded. It is his first experience with Arabic (spanish in HS) and did well. However he is highly motivated by the prospect of a potential language bonus that can be obtained in AD.

Great to see he is motivated. The potential for language bonus known as Foreign Language Profeicency Pay is coded for different billets. Someone right out of USNA probably wouldn't be in such a billet. One must also meet miniumum qualification levels in listening and reading in the target language based on the Defense Language Institute (DLI) standards. Arabic is around a year long course at DLI in Monterey, CA.

 

[Heatherg21]

DS took high school Spanish for four years. Got to USNA and selected (with great guidance from staff) to be an aero major. Plotted how to fit in Russian as a minor. With great strategic advice, he was able to take two summer courses post plebe year and two courses during summer post youngster year. Getting those classes out of the way made room for 3 full years of Russian.

He loves it. His instructor is amazing (got to sit in for one class on 2/C Parent Weekend), and he is bummed she is not going to be on the yard for his final year.

It's not easy, but if you plan accordingly and put in the work, it's possible.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
Our daughter was able fit 2/3 years of Russian into her schedule … she takes summer courses to get ahead … she also plays a sport, so she is really busy …

She has way more credits than she needs to graduate next May 2024

She is a gifted writer too … that’s what I really love …
.

 

[severn]

(I'm from the other service, retired)... I'm trying to understand the Navy Language Program.
(My branch <job> authorized language pay. All my assignments are language coded billets. I'm 2/2 so the pay was $200).

This is from Opnavinst 7220.7h, 8nov18.
Foreign Language Pay Bonus Criteria:
1. Language coded billets
2. Language professionals - Crypto technician, Foreign Area Officer
3. Contingency Operations
4. Expeditionary FLPB
- Nav Spec Warfare
- Navy Expeditionary CBT CMD
- Fleet Marine Force
- Health Services Aug Program
- Afghanistan - Pakistan Hands Program
------------------------
Any anecdotes/comments are appreciated.
------------------------
So here are my assumptions in getting a language pay in the Navy assuming a 1/1 or a 2/2 score:

- SWO Crypto Officer
- SEALS
- SWO in hospital ship
- SWO in Contingency, Fleet Marine, Expeditionary, Afghan-Pak program
-------------
Thanks.

 

[Capt MJ]

(I'm from the other service, retired)... I'm trying to understand the Navy Language Program.
(My branch <job> authorized language pay. All my assignments are language coded billets. I'm 2/2 so the pay was $200).

This is from Opnavinst 7220.7h, 8nov18.
Foreign Language Pay Bonus Criteria:
1. Language coded billets
2. Language professionals - Crypto technician, Foreign Area Officer
3. Contingency Operations
4. Expeditionary FLPB
- Nav Spec Warfare
- Navy Expeditionary CBT CMD
- Fleet Marine Force
- Health Services Aug Program
- Afghanistan - Pakistan Hands Program
------------------------
Any anecdotes/comments are appreciated.
------------------------
So here are my assumptions in getting a language pay in the Navy assuming a 1/1 or a 2/2 score:

- SWO Crypto Officer
- SEALS
- SWO in hospital ship
- SWO in Contingency, Fleet Marine, Expeditionary, Afghan-Pak program
-------------
Thanks.

- Crypto tech is enlisted, quite often have language specialties.
- Some Crypto Officers, Restricted Line officer warfare specialty may have language skills, but that is likely not their primary duty - they lead teams of enlisted specialists. This is not the same as an Unrestricted Line SWO officer, though some Crypto Officers may have started as SWO and lateral transferred.
- Foreign Area Officer (FAO), an officer specialty career field applied for later in career, typically involves Defense Language Institute language training and a new career path.
- Hospital ships are USNS vessels operated by Navy Military Sealift Command civil service merchant mariners, with a joint military embarked hospital staff of medical professionals. I could see where they might have a FAO embarked, depending on mission destination. Not very likely to have SWO officer or enlisted, unless they have a Navy Comm det with them.
-Special Warfare. They have resources and skills we can’t even imagine. I don’t know how language skills fits in with them and I’m not supposed to. I’ve had some friends in that community over the years, and I always knew there was a lot going on behind the green curtain I would never know about.

 

[WT Door]

Unless the standard has changed 2/2 would not be eligble for language pay in the Navy. As you cited in the Opnavinst, the Ist bullet is the driver for who is eligible and encompasses the latter categories. The Special Warfare Community I am knew worked with other Sec Warfare communities in different countries. As an aside, my ship and squadrons had a list of bi-lingual American Sailors that spoke different languages. They could be called to the bridge to interpret and assist. They were also great in port. Some of the languages spoken were Greek, Spanish, Haitian Creole, French, Mandarin & Tagalog.

 

[OldRetSWO]

There are other folks who end up getting Language proficiency pay and I don't know how the instruction covers them but do know that they do get the $'s.
My son needed a particular language for a highly competitive billet that he was ordered into. It was not a strategic language and not generally offered at DLI so he took it at the State Dept in Washington DC. Ever since then (5 yrs), he has taken an annual test and continues to receive LPP. He is a Submariner.

 

[USNAhopeful2025]

my daughter takes arabic at USNA - she is a rising 2C - she is majoring in history and had to take a language - she did take arabic in high school but most all the kids in her classes never took before this year. to get a minor in it she will need to take it her firstie year too

 

[severn]

Tracking now. Some Crypto officers maybe language qualified. FAO requires a foreign language to work with foreign nationals. Spec ops mostly requires multiple dialects to work with local indigenous population. So 2/2 (advanced) not eligible for language pay; Then 3/3 native linguist is eligible. Similar to my service, each command will let you know if there are language billets.
Is there a language immersion program overseas? (Linguist stays in one household for six months).

 

[nuensis]

2/2 is limited working proficiency, far from advanced proficiency.

2+/2+ is the minimum requirement for CTIs to graduate DLI and "A" school, and 2/2 is the bottom-of-the-barrel requirement for them to not be re-rated out of the CTI rating.

The jump from 2+ and below to 3 and above is also significant, as it is the jump between the lower level DLPT and the higher level DLPT under the new electronic test.

Most of the common languages were marked "Prevalent in Force" and scrubbed off the payment list a while ago (Chinese, Russian, and the Standard Arabic being among them). There's some really obscure ones that will still be paid. This wasn't always the case in the past and won't always be the case in the future, but currently we've trained enough professional linguists through DLI for most languages that you can think of and we don't need to incentivize amateurs.

Assuming the language in question is PIF, in most cases the Navy pays exclusively by billet or by training (attended DLI or other formal DOD language training--which is not just classes in college).

This means generally officers will not be eligible for FLPB unless they have attended DLI (mostly FAOs, NSW, EOD) or they are in a billet with a coded language requirement (mostly FAOs, others in something like an attaché billet or some special thing). For example, officers who are selected for the Olmsted Program will be sent to DLI, will meet that eligibility criteria, and will be paid as long as they take the DLPT every year and get the scores.

It is unusual for CW officers to hold language proficiency (here meaning enough proficiency to score a 2 and not just scrape out a 0+ or 1) nor is there any program for them to acquire it. The ones that have proficiency and receive FLPB are mostly prior CTIs that remain eligible due to their DLI training and have continued to take the DLPT annually. I'm sure there's a few out there that did stints with SOF or something and also found themselves at DLI or similar training, but that is not usual.

FAOs do six months of in-country training. I think a key difference between the Navy and other services is that Navy FAOs are assigned by region and may not necessarily be assigned to a country based solely on their language proficiency (i.e. Far East FAO that learned Chinese at DLI can still be assigned to Japan or Korea).

 

[WT Door]

There are other folks who end up getting Language proficiency pay and I don't know how the instruction covers them but do know that they do get the $'s.
My son needed a particular language for a highly competitive billet that he was ordered into. It was not a strategic language and not generally offered at DLI so he took it at the State Dept in Washington DC. Ever since then (5 yrs), he has taken an annual test and continues to receive LPP. He is a Submariner.

Gravy! Drawing language pay on top of the nuke bonus and incentive pay. Sweet.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Gravy! Drawing language pay on top of the nuke bonus and incentive pay. Sweet.

Don't forget, drawing Language Pay for a language that is really not cared about by the Navy at all but since they taught it to him,
he will keep getting paid if he maintains proficiancy

 

[severn]

2/2 is limited working proficiency, far from advanced proficiency.

2+/2+ is the minimum requirement for CTIs to graduate DLI and "A" school, and 2/2 is the bottom-of-the-barrel requirement for them to not be re-rated out of the CTI rating.

The jump from 2+ and below to 3 and above is also significant, as it is the jump between the lower level DLPT and the higher level DLPT under the new electronic test.

Most of the common languages were marked "Prevalent in Force" and scrubbed off the payment list a while ago (Chinese, Russian, and the Standard Arabic being among them). There's some really obscure ones that will still be paid. This wasn't always the case in the past and won't always be the case in the future, but currently we've trained enough professional linguists through DLI for most languages that you can think of and we don't need to incentivize amateurs.

Assuming the language in question is PIF, in most cases the Navy pays exclusively by billet or by training (attended DLI or other formal DOD language training--which is not just classes in college).

This means generally officers will not be eligible for FLPB unless they have attended DLI (mostly FAOs, NSW, EOD) or they are in a billet with a coded language requirement (mostly FAOs, others in something like an attaché billet or some special thing). For example, officers who are selected for the Olmsted Program will be sent to DLI, will meet that eligibility criteria, and will be paid as long as they take the DLPT every year and get the scores.

It is unusual for CW officers to hold language proficiency (here meaning enough proficiency to score a 2 and not just scrape out a 0+ or 1) nor is there any program for them to acquire it. The ones that have proficiency and receive FLPB are mostly prior CTIs that remain eligible due to their DLI training and have continued to take the DLPT annually. I'm sure there's a few out there that did stints with SOF or something and also foundation themselves at DLI or similar training, but that issues was nothing usual.h
B
FAOs do six months of in-country training. I think ao t key difference between the Navy and otherre WA services is that Navy FAOs are assigned but region18 and may not necessarily be assigned to a D- country based solely on their language proficiency (i.e. Far East FAO that learned Chinese at DLI can still be assigned to Japan or Korea).

Your first paragraph, I'm laughing at myself.
I'm hardcore 2/2 SF linguist for 25 years. I could never get over the 3/3 threshold because of those deep poetic verses from the 1800s. I have no desire to get a 3/3 because I'm happy with the 200 baht and the fact that when I'm in a village I made sure all basic services are covered ( water, power, medical, sewage) and not to impress the chief with poems. Perhaps DS '26 can get thru the threshold this time because he can converse with a native speaker at home, his mom.