Tell me why it may not happen.

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by PlanAhead, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. PlanAhead

    PlanAhead Member

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    By "it", I mean an appointment for DS.

    I'm just curious what the possible obstacles may be to DS receiving an appointment.

    We live in a highly competitive area (this is based on what's written all over these forums, what we were told when visiting USNA, and what the senator's office told us). DS received a nom from one of our senators. In our area, the senators and representative compare notes on noms so no student receives more than one. This is written in their literature, which we have received, so it's not just an urban legend.

    If DS has a nom, is medically qualified, academically qualified, has leadership out the wazoo...what could prohibit an appointment?

    This is just a theoretical question. DH and I were discussing the matter, and we both wondered.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    Sheer numbers.

    There are fellow candidates with noms, are medically qualified, academically qualified (though USNA does not, I believe, officially inform candidates if they are 3Q) and leadership out the wazoo. There are more candidates with these qualities than there are seats in the class. USNA will fill out the class as they see best, according to all the goals they have in mind.

    There are those who do not get in on the first try, work hard at their Plan B and reapply successfully. Some might be offered NAPS or sponsored prep.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  3. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Perusing the attached portrait of the USNA Class of 2021 will give you an idea of the daunting numbers involved.
    16,299 application files opened and only 1,376 actual appointments offered for a plebe class of 1,214.

    https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/_files/documents/ClassPortrait.pdf

    Edit:
    Cross posted with Capt MJ: "fastest poster in the SAF"
     
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  4. Lazyboy

    Lazyboy Member

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    Referring to something I read in another discussion:

    Approximately 3,500 candidates are triple q’d with a nomination, and less than 1400 appointments offered. That makes for about 2,100 frowny faces.
     
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  5. PlanAhead

    PlanAhead Member

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    Thanks for the replies. All the more reason for those awesome Plan B's to be in place! I have been telling DS (and DH for that matter!) that admission to a SA is really like admission to an Ivy; it's a reach school, regardless of your qualifications.
     
  6. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    I believe it’s even harder than the Ivy’s. If nothing else, considering all the hurdles: noms to get, slates to win, DoDMRB to pass, as well as the academics, leadership, and physical fitness required. Hang in there, don’t give up! There may be only one candidate above him, and THAT person may have done just that: given up! As MANY have said before....there is no way to know what they are looking for to complete their class.

    And along the lines of previously stated, I was surprised to see that many of the Noms on our Congressman’s slate came from non-traditional methods: foundation scholarships, community and traditional colleges. Our Senators lists were only HS seniors. So there is always an open door until one gives up!
     
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  7. THParent

    THParent Member

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    Given all that, it's a little early to be giving up hope.
    The application completion deadline isn't until January 31st, and MANY candidates don't hear back from USNA (either way) until April 15th.
    That's 100 more days!
     
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  8. Amazed

    Amazed Member

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    I read somewhere in my internet travels that this year, for the class of 2022, USNA is the most difficult institution to be accepted to...under 4% acceptance rate.

    Take it with a grain of salt...I read a lot of "stuff" on the internet and a lot of it isn't cited facts. But I'm inclined to believe this only because I was told the application/interview candidate numbers for my particular region by congressional staffers...again, may not be exactly the most accurate source. I think USNA is typically said to have an acceptance rate around 7% year over year, and given the increased amount of candidates this year, I wouldn't be surprised if under 4% is accurate.

    Good luck to all aspiring candidates!
     
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  9. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    THParent, this may be true, but there have been quite a few appointments given out already. The candidates who self-report appointments on this site are just a small fraction of the actual number of appointments given. Not saying to give up hope, but with the extraordinary number of qualified candidates and appointments given so far, I agree with PlanAhead. Plan Bs are EXTREMELY important, because they are more likely to materialize than Plan As for most candidates.
     
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  10. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    First, don't dwell on the negative ... DS has done everything within his control... submit the best application you can, have a Plan B, and don't try to second guess the process.

    Next, the easy answer is that even though DS may be smart, have good leadership, good CFA, good SAT's, etc..it is always possible there is someone else out there that has better tickets. You don't say that DS has your MOC principal nomination. With the principal nomination, USNA has to appoint if qualified. However, most MOC use the competitive nomination --nominating up to 10 candidates for each slot available. If that's the case, DS is in a pool or slate of 10 candidates, all of whom are likely highly qualified. This is where that extra 10 points on the SAT, extra pull ups on CFA, etc counts the most . Nom's and Appointment has a difficult job of picking whom among a pool of qualified candidates is the most qualified.
     
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  11. Amazed

    Amazed Member

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    So with a competitive slate, the other 9 highly qualified candidates that were not chosen by USNA, they are the ones who go into competition in the National Pool? Are they ranked based on their whole candidate score?
     
  12. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American 5-Year Member

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    Maybe he has no personality.

    Perhaps he interviews poorly.

    Maybe his classes were not challenging enough.

    Possibly his high school has a bad reputation.

    Maybe his hair is too long.

    He might have a distasteful tattoo.

    Maybe his fingernails were dirty.

    Possibly the reviewing committee will sense his parents want it more than him.

    Maybe a 6'4 inch QB with a rocket arm is in the same district.

    Perhaps a diversity candidate or two are competing for the same slot.

    Maybe he has B.O.

    Maybe he's the wrong astrological sign.

    Perhaps the committee won't like his Facebook page.

    Maybe he isn't punctual.

    His teachers might not give good recommendations.

    Maybe he texted during his B&G meeting.

    He might shake hands like a fish.

    Maybe he wore a Bernie Sanders T Shirt to his interview.
     
  13. THParent

    THParent Member

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    Maybe he showed up for his interview wearing flip flops and smelling like Don Julio and bad choices.
     
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  14. usna1985

    usna1985 10-Year Member

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    This is somewhat misleading. It includes everyone who started an application -- which includes those who attended NASS, those who submitted scores to USNA, those who completed a preliminary application, etc. Most of those never complete the application and many never get beyond starting.

    That said, it's also not correct to compare completed applications from USNA to those who applied to -- let's say -- Harvard. Anyone can apply to Harvard. It requires only completing the application, which is not nearly as complex as those to a SA. Thus, 20,000 people could complete the application to Harvard, of which only 5,000 are actually competitive based on Harvard's standards. (Note: the prior numbers are hypothetical and used only for illustrative purposes).

    USNA requires certain minimum qualifications just to become an official candidate. That makes up the 17,000+ number of "applicants." Quite a few more want to apply but don't met those minimums. At Harvard, they would be applicants -- not at USNA. However, as noted, most of those 17,000 won't actually complete their applications. And, of those who do, some won't be medically qualified. Quite a few won't get noms and will largely drop out of the process. So the final numbers for USNA appointments (those fully qualified with nom vs. those who are appointed) is MUCH better than 4% or 7%.

    IOW, SAs are very selective in that there are far more well-qualified candidates than slots for admission. But trying to compare their "percentages" to those of civilian schools is like comparing apples to elephants. There is no way to make an accurate comparison b/c of the nature of the process (despite the fact that folks like US News and even USNA do their best to try:)).
     
  15. usslloyd

    usslloyd Member

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    Certainly can't give up yet, especially considering we live in a state where the MOC's don't release nomination decisions until early February. I wonder how common that is, as I'm watching the thread fill up with nominations/appointments from other states. But I think (and hope I'm correct?) that a late appointment does not matter as your MOC's still will have their slots available. Now, to the question Amazed posed about the national pool. I've read the entire other thread and am still not quite sure how many slots the national pool actually provides for those that do not "win their slate"? Also, I would think it goes by ranking in whole person score but not sure of that either.
     
  16. 0302grnt

    0302grnt Member

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    For all those with MOC "noms and are medically qualified, academically qualified and leadership out the wazoo . . ." stand fast. There are a lot of appointments made in January and February - many more than in December. Then, there is always March, April . . . even May. This is no time to go wobbly. JMHO.
     
  17. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    Anyone on a competitive MOC slate will not be offered an appointment until the application window closes and all candidates on the slate are evaluated. This is still a few weeks away.

    The few appointments you are reading about are Presidential or Service Connected nominees or LOA recipients that are no brainers.

    The waiting is tough on the candidates as well as the parents but you just have to relax and hurry up and wait. It is good training for a future military career.

    In terms of how many are offered from the national pool, the number varies each year based on many factors but it is pretty safe to assume somewhere between 150-250. The first 150 go by WCS score and after that the academy gets to pick to meet the class composition goals.
     
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  18. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    USMA 1994, there are a few "no LOA" appointments on the list with senate/congressional nominations. Most are LOA though.
     
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  19. usslloyd

    usslloyd Member

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    Thank you USMA 1994. I do realize that looking at that appointment list is self-inflicted angst, but can't help it. I find in interesting that a number are noted as "undecided." My first reaction, is OK, I'll take it (kidding!), but I guess a number of them are looking at other SA's, rotc, etc. Guessing that waiting to see if folks actually accept appointment is one of the reasons this process plays out so long.
     
  20. PlanAhead

    PlanAhead Member

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    I just spit out my coffee after reading this! Thanks for the laugh!!
     
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