Texas A&M, Norwich

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jrobs12

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Okay, first off, i'm not interested at all in the citadel or vmi, both have too much of a bad rep. Anyways, does anyone have good or bad information on Texas or Norwich? I'm applying to usma, but its pretty 50 50 of whether i do rotc or the acadmey, assuming of course i get into both. Anyways, let me know if you know anything
Thanks in advance
 
What have you heard about The Citadel and VMI?
 
interested at all in the citadel or vmi, both have too much of a bad rep.
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I can think of reasons one would not be interested in these schools but they have good educational reputations. Esp VMI - one of the top publics in the US.

While TAMU and Norwich both have a Corps of Cadets - they are two very different schools. If you are OOS then it is very difficult to gain admission to TAMU. Texas puts a cap on OOS students, I believe.
Think about what you want in a school educationally, in size, culture and geography.
 
jrobs12 said:
Okay, first off, i'm not interested at all in the citadel or vmi, both have too much of a bad rep. Anyways, does anyone have good or bad information on Texas or Norwich? I'm applying to usma, but its pretty 50 50 of whether i do rotc or the acadmey, assuming of course i get into both. Anyways, let me know if you know anything
Thanks in advance
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JROBS- not sure what the "Bad Rep" is that you have heard on either the VMI or Citadel - rather than propagate them without seeing them why don't you PM me and I can talk about VMI in detail. As far as Norwich and Texas A&M(my little brother graduated from Norwich and I just moved a year ago from Texas and know a couple of kids- friends of my son at Texas A&M now) you are looking at places that are virtually polar extremes to each other in terms of your college experience - Norwich is a small little school in the center of Vermont -very small town New England scenic (with nothing else anywhere near by), it's roughly half military with the oldest nonfederal corps of cadets in the country, typical small college environment-small classes etc... By comparison- Texas A&M is the quintessential BIG state University - lots of options and big classes etc... Both have large and respected ROTC programs and commission for all 4 branches of the DoD. So what are you looking for? While neither will be as physically demanding as VMI- the Corps of Cadets in both will be pretty challenging and will be required if you are going to take ROTC at either. BTW- the closest "peer" to Texas A&M in terms of feel and experience-would probably be Va Tech which also has a Corps of Cadets dating back to the 1870's. Again a great school.- campus is not as overwhelming in size as A&M in my opinion and the Corps is not, however, as prominent as it is at A&M. So what are you looking for?
 
Im a freshman cadet at VA Tech. VT and TAMU are nothing like VMI, Citadel, Norwich. We have all the benefits of being at a large public university that other SMCs just cannot offer. Its probably the nearest you can get to a real college experience at a SMC. When you get out of the dorms and on the main campus, you can relax and almost feel like a normal student. I also guarantee you that its nowhere near as demanding as something like the Academies/Citadel/VMI.

When you make your decision, dont just lump all the SMCs together. They are all different. Decide which lifestyle you want in college and then pick from there.
 
jrobs12 said:
Okay, first off, i'm not interested at all in the citadel or vmi, both have too much of a bad rep. Anyways, does anyone have good or bad information on Texas or Norwich? I'm applying to usma, but its pretty 50 50 of whether i do rotc or the acadmey, assuming of course i get into both. Anyways, let me know if you know anything
Thanks in advance
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are you talking about Texas A & M Galveston? (still deciding)

and what about California Maritime (I applied there)
 
Well, all the reports coming out of VMI and the Citadel about racism, klan glorificaiton, insane hazing, the nazi glorification, and experiences that my brother (a cadet at USMA) has had with a citadel grad who was supposedly the norm in terms of behavior for citadel grads as a whole, i just don't want to go to either of those. Jump all over this if you must, but i'm not the only one who thinks this about those two. Undoubtedly, they're good schools but...
Okay well, after USMA, i'm interested in going to a big-ish school in Texas, either UT or A&M. I grew up there etc etc etc, and texas is probablly my first choice in location for university. I'm going to have to play up my Texas upbrining a lot im thinking see as i'm out of state.
I was wondering about Norwich just because it is a legit school with a corps of cadets, and was wondering about its program, excluding location or school size.
ya i heard VT was a good ROTC school also.
Okay out of these programs,
UT Austin
A&M college station
CU Boulder
Syracuse U
Cornell U
which has the rep for great ROTC programs, or which just are overall good schools (school size isn't so much an issue, though on the bigger side would be nicer, and good academic program is important)
thanks
 
As a Rook at Norwich, I can tell you it's a much different experience than the other SMCs from the research I've done.

With all of the hazing that went on in the 80s and 90s, Norwich only allows PT on Saturday morning for 2 hours with your company (and absolutely NONE in the barracks). Now, this doesn't include the 3 mornings a week of ROTC PT with your respective branch (and is much less hardcore), nor does it include if you join a special unit, where they can essentially haze you when you train with them (SEALs, Rangers, Special Ops, Semper Fi, etc.)

That being said, the mental challenges were upped to compensate, making it a much more taxing environment emotionally than some other SMCs.

It's a tiny school with a diverse academic program, with a Corps of only 1200. It's great for some and terrible for others; just be sure what you want.
 
jrobs12 said:
i don't know anything about California Martime
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It is the only maritime Academy on the West Coast, and per US News and World Report it was #5 of West Coast Colleges..

They also have a CG Reserves program
 
2 of my friends back in the day went to California Maritime Academy.

They both graduated from there, and we married. He worked for Exxon. I can't remember who she worked for. They met aboard ship when they were still at CMA.

Anyway, we met them in Virginia where darling husband and I were both working as civilian engineers for the U.S. Army. This was back in late 80's early 90's.

Family life was the PITS for them... he was gone 6 months out of the year and seemed like as soon as he came home, she shipped out.

So, they came to Virginia where her dad was a colonel where we worked and that is how we all met.

Long story short, it was either the marriage or the job. So, they both quit. He applied for an engineering job where we worked AND they would NOT hire him as an engineer, only as an engineering techician (big difference in pay and prestige there) because his degree from CMA said Marine Engineering Technology or some such. My memory may be faulty, but this is what I remember of the situation.

They both LOVED the school and loved their jobs until they decided to marry and have a family. Then, not so much.

That is all I know about CMA. Not much. J ust an anectodal story.
 
bruno said:
JROBS- not sure what the "Bad Rep" is that you have heard on either the VMI or Citadel - rather than propagate them without seeing them why don't you PM me and I can talk about VMI in detail. As far as Norwich and Texas A&M(my little brother graduated from Norwich and I just moved a year ago from Texas and know a couple of kids- friends of my son at Texas A&M now) you are looking at places that are virtually polar extremes to each other in terms of your college experience - Norwich is a small little school in the center of Vermont -very small town New England scenic (with nothing else anywhere near by), it's roughly half military with the oldest nonfederal corps of cadets in the country, typical small college environment-small classes etc... By comparison- Texas A&M is the quintessential BIG state University - lots of options and big classes etc... Both have large and respected ROTC programs and commission for all 4 branches of the DoD. So what are you looking for? While neither will be as physically demanding as VMI- the Corps of Cadets in both will be pretty challenging and will be required if you are going to take ROTC at either. BTW- the closest "peer" to Texas A&M in terms of feel and experience-would probably be Va Tech which also has a Corps of Cadets dating back to the 1870's. Again a great school.- campus is not as overwhelming in size as A&M in my opinion and the Corps is not, however, as prominent as it is at A&M. So what are you looking for?
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jrobs12 said:
Okay, first off, i'm not interested at all in the citadel or vmi, both have too much of a bad rep. Anyways, does anyone have good or bad information on Texas or Norwich? I'm applying to usma, but its pretty 50 50 of whether i do rotc or the acadmey, assuming of course i get into both. Anyways, let me know if you know anything
Thanks in advance
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That's funny..DS is very interested in The Citadel. Somewhat interested in VMI and not D much in Norwich.

Citadel is right in one of the top cities in the US and also a booming economic area. Campus is beautiful, tradition is terrific and overall it seems as though folks take a ton of pride in being there. Maybe too much pride leads to the bad rap? And I know there were hazing issues years back but current administration is pretty clear that is not tolerated. What really happens behind the gates? I honestly don't know.

VMI seems on par with The Citadel overall. But it is in a more rural area with cold winters. VMI is a top 10 public liberal arts school nationally and The Citadel is the #1 public college in the South. So they are both legit academically. VMI Rat Line and Citadel Knob Year are probably comparable though The Citadel seems to take special pride in having the toughest Fourth Class System in the nation. It's not for the faint of heart I know that.

Norwich is in the middle of nowhere and I heard AROTC did FTX last month in 2 feet of snow! I'm sure it's a good school and they are far and away the most generous with aid. If you have a 3 or 4 year ROTC scholarship Norwich basically gives you a free ride. But maybe they do that to compete with schools that aren't in Vermont. I wish Norwich was about 500 miles further south because the finances are really attractive.

Best of luck with your college search!
 
A pal of DS#1 commissioned out of TAMU CC, branched Infantry, earned Ranger Tab, and joined Army SF. He is completing his service obligation and starting U Penn in the fall.
 
pa-outdoorsman said:
VMI seems on par with The Citadel overall. But it is in a more rural area with cold winters. VMI is a top 10 public liberal arts school nationally and The Citadel is the #1 public college in the South. So they are both legit academically. VMI Rat Line and Citadel Knob Year are probably comparable though The Citadel seems to take special pride in having the toughest Fourth Class System in the nation. It's not for the faint of heart I know that
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Wouldn’t put too much stock into what the loudest recruiters on this site say, but I would suggest doing more research…
Having worked at 2 SMCs and taught at 2 SAs, I can tell you that visiting these schools is the best way to determine which one to attend.
Two schools which are perhaps most similar, one in the north and one in the south, are Norwich and The Citadel. Both have a combination of cadets and civilian students, both offer night and online degrees, and both are regionally ranked. They are also very similar in size.
As far as larger schools, Texas A&M and Virginia Tech are similar in size, etc. However, while these schools may share similarities, they are all very different and they all have unique cultures, etc. The best way to make a choice is to visit.
 
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Tac-p21 said:
Wouldn’t put too much stock into what the loudest recruiters on this site say, but I would suggest doing more research…
Having worked at 2 SMCs and taught at 2 SAs, I can tell you that visiting these schools is the best way to determine which one to attend.
Two schools which are perhaps most similar, one in the north and one in the south, are Norwich and The Citadel. Both have a combination of cadets and civilian students, both offer night and online degrees, and both are regionally ranked. They are also very similar in size.
As far as larger schools, Texas A&M and Virginia Tech are similar in size, etc. However, while these schools may share similarities, they are all very different and they all have unique cultures, etc. The best way to make a choice is to visit.
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Tac21, The Citadel is not similar to Norwich in experience. The Citadel does not have “a combination of cadets and civilian students.” “Civilian students” at The Citadel are evening school or on-line students that do not live on campus, or attend classes with Cadets. A few veteran students (about 80) and active duty military (about 30), take classes with 2,300 cadets, but do not live on campus. I don’t consider these civilian students. I won’t comment on academic rankings of the two schools as there are a lot of different ones with different metrics. I do agree with your last sentence.
 
Glen, 1500 civilian students is not insignificant, nor is it “just a few.” As a recruiter, it’s understandable to draw attention to the “few” veteran and enlisted students (110 of them) but don’t disregard the other 1,500 citadel civilian students… (I doubt the school disregards their tuition payments). Glad we agree on visiting these schools before making a decision.
 
I believe Glen's statement of "just a few" was in regard to the veterans that take day classes with cadets. The 1,500 civilians that attend online or in the evening are insignificant to daily life at The Citadel as there is zero interaction between the two groups. The Citadel cadet experience is much different than Norwich as it is a 24/7 military lifestyle and cadets are not integrated with civilian students. I hope that potential cadets of any of these fine institutions will take a visit and see that each school is unique and a great option for young men and women.
 
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