Third Time's the Charm

EagleLegion14

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
33
Hello!!
I have been active in the past, but I went silent over this summer as I contemplated attempting USAFA for the third time. In July, I decided. I am posting this thread to find my fellow 3rd-time applicants for 2024 and if anyone has some insight/insider tips to help my application out this time around. This year is "do or die," if I don't get in, I am just going to stick with the path I am on right now...
Currently:
Engineering College Sophomore
AFROTC AS200 year
 
Hello!!
I have been active in the past, but I went silent over this summer as I contemplated attempting USAFA for the third time. In July, I decided. I am posting this thread to find my fellow 3rd-time applicants for 2024 and if anyone has some insight/insider tips to help my application out this time around. This year is "do or die," if I don't get in, I am just going to stick with the path I am on right now...
Currently:
Engineering College Sophomore
AFROTC AS200 year
Good luck! I’m a 2nd-time applicant.
 
Obviously, you have to consider all sides and make the best decision for you. I've always recommended individuals try again if they don't make it. But I would ask you, being you're currently a sophomore in college; would be starting your junior year in college when starting your freshman year at the academy; and are already in AFROTC, you need to consider all that when deciding.

Only you know how well you're doing in ROTC. Not everyone gets selected for commission after college in the ROTC program. If you don't know how you currently stand, you should speak with your ROTC leadership and get their opinion.

A lot of people have a strong desire to attend a military academy. I've seen those who applied and came in with associate degrees already done, and even one who would have been in their last semester of college accepted an appointment. But only you can decide if the academy is still truly something you want; and WHY do you want it. I can tell you right now, with good accuracy, there's a lot of difference between an 18 year old and a 21 year old. The reasons you wanted the academy at 18 may not even exist if you get in at 21 years old. How you interact with your classmates will be totally different. There's a big difference between 18 and 21 years old. Especially when the 21 year old has been in the "Real World" at a traditional college for the last 2 years.

I am not trying to discourage you. Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that you need to decide WHY you STILL WANT the academy. You can still get a commission in ROTC. You can still get the job you want in the air force through ROTC. Once you have your commission, there's not really any difference between being an academy grad and an ROTC grad once you move on to your advanced job training; whether it's pilot, IT, Intel, engineering, etc. And finally; by staying where you are, you'll be commissioned 2 years EARLIER.

Of course, that all revolves around whether or not you are selected to be commissioned out of ROTC. Only you know that. If you think your odds are slim; then definitely the academy is a better option and you should apply. Because all cadets are commissioned if they successfully graduate. Not all ROTC graduates get commissioned. But if you know, or speak with your ROTC leadership and they assure you, that you are on a confident path towards a commission, then you have to decide if you want to ADD another 2 years of school before getting commissioned. Being older than most of the other cadets. (Many prior enlisted who attend the academy mention this too). And whether you want to start off again as a Doolie with some 19-20 year old in your face during basic training.

Best of luck to you. I hope I've given you and others in a similar boat something to think about. I ALWAYS recommend reapplying if you don't get accepted out of high school. But it gets more complicated come the 3rd or more time applying. Especially if you've been in and are successfully doing ROTC. Good luck
 
Hello!!
I have been active in the past, but I went silent over this summer as I contemplated attempting USAFA for the third time. In July, I decided. I am posting this thread to find my fellow 3rd-time applicants for 2024 and if anyone has some insight/insider tips to help my application out this time around. This year is "do or die," if I don't get in, I am just going to stick with the path I am on right now...
Currently:
Engineering College Sophomore
AFROTC AS200 year


What are your SAT ACT scores?
 
Obviously, you have to consider all sides and make the best decision for you. I've always recommended individuals try again if they don't make it. But I would ask you, being you're currently a sophomore in college; would be starting your junior year in college when starting your freshman year at the academy; and are already in AFROTC, you need to consider all that when deciding.

Only you know how well you're doing in ROTC. Not everyone gets selected for commission after college in the ROTC program. If you don't know how you currently stand, you should speak with your ROTC leadership and get their opinion.

A lot of people have a strong desire to attend a military academy. I've seen those who applied and came in with associate degrees already done, and even one who would have been in their last semester of college accepted an appointment. But only you can decide if the academy is still truly something you want; and WHY do you want it. I can tell you right now, with good accuracy, there's a lot of difference between an 18 year old and a 21 year old. The reasons you wanted the academy at 18 may not even exist if you get in at 21 years old. How you interact with your classmates will be totally different. There's a big difference between 18 and 21 years old. Especially when the 21 year old has been in the "Real World" at a traditional college for the last 2 years.

I am not trying to discourage you. Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that you need to decide WHY you STILL WANT the academy. You can still get a commission in ROTC. You can still get the job you want in the air force through ROTC. Once you have your commission, there's not really any difference between being an academy grad and an ROTC grad once you move on to your advanced job training; whether it's pilot, IT, Intel, engineering, etc. And finally; by staying where you are, you'll be commissioned 2 years EARLIER.

Of course, that all revolves around whether or not you are selected to be commissioned out of ROTC. Only you know that. If you think your odds are slim; then definitely the academy is a better option and you should apply. Because all cadets are commissioned if they successfully graduate. Not all ROTC graduates get commissioned. But if you know, or speak with your ROTC leadership and they assure you, that you are on a confident path towards a commission, then you have to decide if you want to ADD another 2 years of school before getting commissioned. Being older than most of the other cadets. (Many prior enlisted who attend the academy mention this too). And whether you want to start off again as a Doolie with some 19-20 year old in your face during basic training.

Best of luck to you. I hope I've given you and others in a similar boat something to think about. I ALWAYS recommend reapplying if you don't get accepted out of high school. But it gets more complicated come the 3rd or more time applying. Especially if you've been in and are successfully doing ROTC. Good luck
More power to OP. IMHO (and according to my 2/C son) there is no comparison between Academy life and ROTC part-timer life. Aim High. Don't give up the ship!
 
More power to OP. IMHO (and according to my 2/C son) there is no comparison between Academy life and ROTC part-timer life. Aim High. Don't give up the ship!
This is a difficult post to reply to. Your son is a R2D2 (C2C). Does he have any experience with ROTC life? Obviously there are differences between the two, just wondering what that has to do with this topic. It might be more difficult for someone who has done ROTC or even traditional civilian college for 2 years to start all over and do 4 years at the academy. Which is more strict, more demanding, more pressure, and overall more challenging. If for no other reasons, than emotionally.

My main point that I was trying to make, is that once you are commissioned, it doesn't matter really in the least if you went to the academy or to ROTC; or even got your degree on your own and went through OCS. As far as your career goes, the academy definitely has some advantages. e.g. pretty much anyone who's physically qualified, can become a pilot. Doesn't matter what your major is or even gpa. Be qualified and graduate. That's about it. Also; if you do well at the academy "Academically", you have a much better chance of getting to go DIRECTLY to grad school when you leave the academy. All academy grads are commissioned. Not like taking a chance in ROTC of not being commissioned. There's obviously other pros and cons to the academy; just like there are plenty of pros and cons to attending ROTC.

But my comments were in reference to: "The OP would have ALREADY COMPLETED 2 years of college AND ROTC". If they feel they will have no problem getting a commission after graduating, then it might be more prudent to stay with ROTC. WHY START ALL OVER AGAIN???

As far as comparing the academy to ROTC, that's a difficult concept to discuss in this situation. A person needs to know that the allure that the academy has on a 17-18 year old high school graduate, is not going to be realized the same for a 20-21 year old who's already been going to college and doing ROTC. The majority of other cadets in your class are younger, less experienced, and more easily "Molded". The same applies to prior-enlisted. But at least, the 20-22 year old prior enlisted pretty much knows what they are getting themselves into. Their main goal in the degree and commission. They aren't looking at the academy with star struck rosy eyes like a 17-18 year old is.
 
I will put my $0.99 into the mix (which with tax in AZ will get you an XL Polar Pop at Circle K).

I'm in the same boat as Christcorp. If you're a college sophomore in AFROTC and doing well, do you really want to delay your commissioning by three years? While I understand the desire to attend the academy, I have to ask: is that more important that serving? And here's why I say that.

Once I graduated from the academy (after trying twice) I was a second lieutenant, a "butter bar" and that was that. When I went to UPT, nobody cared where I came from: how well do you fly LT? My follow-on assignment aircraft was 100% related to my performance in training, and didn't care what ring I wore.

My squadrons after that...nobody ever asked me "where'd you get your commission?" Oh, it came up at football weekends (when I'd be cheering on AF), and such, but nobody officially asked, ever, in 30 years of service. My classmate, "Fingers" Goldfein said at a talk he gave at USAFA last year (I think it was last year) that nobody ever asked where he went to school or what his grades were. They DID ask: "how well do you fly the jet? Are you good at your profession? Are you ready to take the next step?"
(I think he has done a pretty excellent job, but I'm biased...of course, he did let a SAM get the better of him once)

IF the academy is ALL THAT and a delay in commissioning and service is warranted in your mind, then go for it!! What do you have to lose? But please don't put yourself through all this just to say "I went to the academy" as it probably won't matter in your career.

Again, just my "old guy" thoughts...

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
I will put my $0.99 into the mix (which with tax in AZ will get you an XL Polar Pop at Circle K).

I'm in the same boat as Christcorp. If you're a college sophomore in AFROTC and doing well, do you really want to delay your commissioning by three years? While I understand the desire to attend the academy, I have to ask: is that more important that serving? And here's why I say that.

Once I graduated from the academy (after trying twice) I was a second lieutenant, a "butter bar" and that was that. When I went to UPT, nobody cared where I came from: how well do you fly LT? My follow-on assignment aircraft was 100% related to my performance in training, and didn't care what ring I wore.

My squadrons after that...nobody ever asked me "where'd you get your commission?" Oh, it came up at football weekends (when I'd be cheering on AF), and such, but nobody officially asked, ever, in 30 years of service. My classmate, "Fingers" Goldfein said at a talk he gave at USAFA last year (I think it was last year) that nobody ever asked where he went to school or what his grades were. They DID ask: "how well do you fly the jet? Are you good at your profession? Are you ready to take the next step?"
(I think he has done a pretty excellent job, but I'm biased...of course, he did let a SAM get the better of him once)

IF the academy is ALL THAT and a delay in commissioning and service is warranted in your mind, then go for it!! What do you have to lose? But please don't put yourself through all this just to say "I went to the academy" as it probably won't matter in your career.

Again, just my "old guy" thoughts...

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

I can see your point here. My Det. Comm. has spoken with me and mentioned that I’m currently on-track to getting sent to field training, and coupling that piece of information along with how I could never really pinpoint the answer to the question I KNOW I’m going to be asked during the interview, “why the third time?” My main point was-better education. Better professors, more opportunities more outreach. But that doesn’t fit the idea of “what can I bring to the Air Force” that turns into more of a “what the Air Force can give to me.”
Also, I feel like when they ask me how I’m doing in AFROTC and I tell them I’m doing well, and if they deemed me a competent up-and-coming Officer, they would prefer me to stay in ROTC and commission sooner to benefit the Air Force sooner rather than spend more money on me and send me back two years of training that they don’t think I need. (None of that is to sound cocky I’m just explaining my reasoning if it’s way left field call me out [emoji23]).
 
More power to OP. IMHO (and according to my 2/C son) there is no comparison between Academy life and ROTC part-timer life. Aim High. Don't give up the ship!
So seriously as a BGO, do you professionally advise candidates that there is "no comparison" between a USNA and NROTC ensign?
 
For me, attending a service academy has been a dream and goal of mine for a long time. Being an ROTC midshipman is the best opportunity of my life, yet I see myself wanting more. From personal experience I have seen first class midshipman from ROTC who don’t even know how to drill. There are many good ROTC midshipman it’s just that drill training once a week isn’t enough for me. I don’t want to look back on my life with regret if I didn’t reapply one more time because I know I can get in if I don’t give up. It is true that there is no difference between an academy and a ROTC graduate, but the academy experience is something I dream about even after attending NSI and doing ROTC.
 
For me, attending a service academy has been a dream and goal of mine for a long time. Being an ROTC midshipman is the best opportunity of my life, yet I see myself wanting more. From personal experience I have seen first class midshipman from ROTC who don’t even know how to drill. There are many good ROTC midshipman it’s just that drill training once a week isn’t enough for me. I don’t want to look back on my life with regret if I didn’t reapply one more time because I know I can get in if I don’t give up. It is true that there is no difference between an academy and a ROTC graduate, but the academy experience is something I dream about even after attending NSI and doing ROTC.
Well said. This is precisely the point I was trying to get across above. Each candidate knows in their heart the best choice for them. Strongly recommend conveying this sentiment to your CO when you interview for the NROTC Nomination to the USNA. This is very similar to what my son said to his CO, which the CO included in his letter of recommendation to the USNA. Don't give up the ship!
 
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