Thoughts on USNA SAT Scores

[Huursoldaat]

Higher standardized test scores can't hurt. I would think they are actually a significant piece of the puzzle. For all the talk about admissions criteria, my son says his early sense is that ultimately academics rule at USNA.

 

[Jabor3]

I think my son’s BGO put it best: take the SAT early and often, until you get an 800 on each test. He was kidding - sort of! But with his sage advice my son took it in December as a junior, then I think it was March, April, and June junior year. He didn’t get 800 on each, but his score improved with time and experience. So my advice to a junior with a 680 verbal and 680 math is YES take it again if you can! Junior year is a big year. The learning and maturity that happens is significant between now and June. It would be rare for a junior to not do better at the end of junior year. You have plenty of time to take the SAT again if you can swing it.

 

[AA787DRIVER]

Best advise we got was to take both and my son got a great score on the ACT and then went into the SAT will a lot of pressure off and did great there also.

 

[cbasalt1]

Depending on strong subjects I would certainly take both tests. Sometimes I believe academies will cross test suprscore, as in, all scores are converted to a standard system and then you cuold take your highest out of multiple attempts on multiple tests.

I do find the ACT English and reading easier for me to score well in. I was able to get a perfect score on these both on ACT but not the SAT.

 

[Banshee Mom]

Wonderful advice here and I would certainly encourage taking the SAT or ACT again if there are no barriers to doing so. My two cents for what it’s worth which may not be much . We live in a very competitive district in New York, DD SAT score was not in the 1400s, she also had the disadvantage of attempting to take the exam during COVID restrictions (we traveled out of state ). She read many posts here about candidates with 1400 and 1500 SAT scores and at one point was considering not even applying because she thought she “didn’t have a chance” due to her SAT score . I think she actually made herself a nervous wreck over her SAT score . Her highest score was the first one she took, her score was lower on her subsequent tries. There are numerous posts throughout SAF of candidates with incredibly high SAT scores and GPAs unfortunately not receiving appointments. DD had numerous leadership roles at her school, participated in varsity and club sports , had a job, good grades etc. My point being she was well rounded. I’m not discouraging retaking the SAT or ACT , but seeing posts about 1400 and 1500 SAT scores and if the candidate hasn’t achieved that they are subpar and won’t receive a nomination or appointment is not necessarily true .

 

[ALW72]

Wonderful advice here and I would certainly encourage taking the SAT or ACT again if there are no barriers to doing so. My two cents for what it’s worth which may not be much . We live in a very competitive district in New York, DD SAT score was not in the 1400s, she also had the disadvantage of attempting to take the exam during COVID restrictions (we traveled out of state ). She read many posts here about candidates with 1400 and 1500 SAT scores and at one point was considering not even applying because she thought she “didn’t have a chance” due to her SAT score . I think she actually made herself a nervous wreck over her SAT score . Her highest score was the first one she took, her score was lower on her subsequent tries. There are numerous posts throughout SAF of candidates with incredibly high SAT scores and GPAs unfortunately not receiving appointments. DD had numerous leadership roles at her school, participated in varsity and club sports , had a job, good grades etc. My point being she was well rounded. I’m not discouraging retaking the SAT or ACT , but seeing posts about 1400 and 1500 SAT scores and if the candidate hasn’t achieved that they are subpar and won’t receive a nomination or appointment is not necessarily true .

I think this is important to point out as well. DS was turned down medically and asked to reapply this year, hopefully with better odds of getting a waiver. When we spoke to an admissions counselor about what to do for a better outcome the second go around we asked if he should retake the SAT (which was 90% percentile but still room for improvement). He was told not to bother taking it again because it wouldn't improve his odds when taken into consideration with the rest of his applicant profile (fluent in another language, all county orchestra, state football championship, top 10% of his graduating class, and leadership position at a part-time job). The only recommendation given was to do well in his freshman year STEM classes at college. SAT/ACT is important but not all determining, although it may play a bigger role in the nomination process depending on where you live USNA actually does a pretty good job at evaluating the "whole student" so to speak.

 

[Heatherg21]

I think this is important to point out as well. DS was turned down medically and asked to reapply this year, hopefully with better odds of getting a waiver. When we spoke to an admissions counselor about what to do for a better outcome the second go around we asked if he should retake the SAT (which was 90% percentile but still room for improvement). He was told not to bother taking it again because it wouldn't improve his odds when taken into consideration with the rest of his applicant profile (fluent in another language, all county orchestra, state football championship, top 10% of his graduating class, and leadership position at a part-time job). The only recommendation given was to do well in his freshman year STEM classes at college. SAT/ACT is important but not all determining, although it may play a bigger role in the nomination process depending on where you live USNA actually does a pretty good job at evaluating the "whole student" so to speak.

I would agree with both of you. All things considered, USNA repeatedly emphasizes the WHOLE candidate. DS had an SAT in the 85%, and ACT was 91%. It was not the lofty 1400 and up range.

What his transcripts reflected was a 4.0 in all courses taken, including the dual credit honors courses (no AP or IB for our area). His resume and transcripts made it clear he could manage a very challenging schedule and excel.

He had leadership in multiple areas, in clubs, and in his sport (TKD), and he had demonstrated leadership in teaching TKD.

He had public speaking experience (I highly encourage all high school students to check out the American Legion Oratorical Contest) that forced him to find composure and poise in public scenarios (think future interviews).

The point is that a 1600 SAT may light up an admissions board, but if that applicant cannot demonstrate any success in other categories, I highly doubt it earns an appointment. I have had students who hit high 1500's on the SAT, one who scored a 35 on his first try on the ACT (I drove DS and him to take the exam. Man, was DS pissed when the kid pulled the 35, happy for him, but boggled). He had a 2.2 GPA, no leadership, no athletics, and never turned in homework, he just had a genius brain with an aptitude for test taking. He couldn't speak in front of people, would bumble interviews, and let's just say essay writing was not his jam. He found his niche with the enlisted nuclear Navy and loves his current job.

He had 1 leg of a 3 legged stool. A well well-rounded candidate needs all 3 to compete.

 

[Banshee Mom]

I would agree with both of you. All things considered, USNA repeatedly emphasizes the WHOLE candidate. DS had an SAT in the 85%, and ACT was 91%. It was not the lofty 1400 and up range.

What his transcripts reflected was a 4.0 in all courses taken, including the dual credit honors courses (no AP or IB for our area). His resume and transcripts made it clear he could manage a very challenging schedule and excel.

He had leadership in multiple areas, in clubs, and in his sport (TKD), and he had demonstrated leadership in teaching TKD.

He had public speaking experience (I highly encourage all high school students to check out the American Legion Oratorical Contest) that forced him to find composure and poise in public scenarios (think future interviews).

The point is that a 1600 SAT may light up an admissions board, but if that applicant cannot demonstrate any success in other categories, I highly doubt it earns an appointment. I have had students who hit high 1500's on the SAT, one who scored a 35 on his first try on the ACT (I drove DS and him to take the exam. Man, was DS pissed when the kid pulled the 35, happy for him, but boggled). He had a 2.2 GPA, no leadership, no athletics, and never turned in homework, he just had a genius brain with an aptitude for test taking. He couldn't speak in front of people, would bumble interviews, and let's just say essay writing was not his jam. He found his niche with the enlisted nuclear Navy and loves his current job.

He had 1 leg of a 3 legged stool. A well well-rounded candidate needs all 3 to compete.

I just think seeing posts that say “oh, if you don’t have such and such SAT score , you won’t get a nomination “ scares off potential candidates who would probably be an incredible asset to a service academy. I know it was discouraging for my DD. Excellent point above about being a confident and self assured speaker. DD did very well on her nomination board interview , she read up on what questions might be expected, practiced eye contact and no “uhms” or “like” and was really able to articulate not only that she wanted to go to a service academy but that she truly wanted to serve her country in the military and I guess she succeeded because she did receive a nomination in what I have been told is a competitive district in NY.

 

[A1Janitor]

I just think seeing posts that say “oh, if you don’t have such and such SAT score , you won’t get a nomination “ scares off potential candidates who would probably be an incredible asset to a service academy. I know it was discouraging for my DD. Excellent point above about being a confident and self assured speaker. DD did very well on her nomination board interview , she read up on what questions might be expected, practiced eye contact and no “uhms” or “like” and was really able to articulate not only that she wanted to go to a service academy but that she truly wanted to serve her country in the military and I guess she succeeded because she did receive a nomination in what I have been told is a competitive district in NY.

Some with lower SATs get in. Some with higher SATs don’t get in.

We don’t know the needs of the navy. We also don’t know the “stats” of our competitors.

So the best bet is to take the exams as many times as you can and do the best you can.

 

[Banshee Mom]

I agree to take the exams as much as possible , that’s possible now with the lifting of covid restrictions . My point is that I would hate to see potential candidates discouraged or possibly not apply because they see posts that lead them to believe that if I don’t have a SAT score in the 98% I don’t have a chance.

 

[FutureAcademyDad?]

Obligatory, "The only way they don't have a chance is if they don't apply".

 

[bigmack]

My DS is currently a Plebe. There are SO many pieces to the admissions puzzle that it is impossible to say "what is good enough?" What I can tell you, is my DS and your DS have a very similar/almost identical academic profile. He was not class president, but was a Varsity athlete captain, lettered in multiple sports, had lots of community service hours, etc. DS was waitlisted at USNA. He finally received an appointment in mid May. Although it all worked out in the end, being waitlisted was extremely stressful for DS and us--I can't recommend it! Since your DS is only a junior and you have some time, I would strongly suggest re-taking the ACT/SAT after additional test prep if USNA is his #1 choice.

 

[SnootyHen]

Wonderful advice here and I would certainly encourage taking the SAT or ACT again if there are no barriers to doing so. My two cents for what it’s worth which may not be much . We live in a very competitive district in New York, DD SAT score was not in the 1400s, she also had the disadvantage of attempting to take the exam during COVID restrictions (we traveled out of state ). She read many posts here about candidates with 1400 and 1500 SAT scores and at one point was considering not even applying because she thought she “didn’t have a chance” due to her SAT score . I think she actually made herself a nervous wreck over her SAT score . Her highest score was the first one she took, her score was lower on her subsequent tries. There are numerous posts throughout SAF of candidates with incredibly high SAT scores and GPAs unfortunately not receiving appointments. DD had numerous leadership roles at her school, participated in varsity and club sports , had a job, good grades etc. My point being she was well rounded. I’m not discouraging retaking the SAT or ACT , but seeing posts about 1400 and 1500 SAT scores and if the candidate hasn’t achieved that they are subpar and won’t receive a nomination or appointment is not necessarily true .

Thank you for saying this, My son is in a similar position now. He is in the top 10% of his class with AP/honors classes, 3 sport athlete and a lot of leadership and community service but he's struggling on SAT/ACT scores and it's making him crazy. His scores are not bad but they are not exceptional and he's essentially out of time for retakes. He's been feeling really anxious and stressed out about that holding him back from his dream. Reading posts about people with 1400 and 1500 scores worried about needing to retake them to do better only elevates that anxiety. Thank you for sharing this. I am going to show him so he has a little hope.

 

[usna1985]

USNA might well advise to retake unless or until you get at 1600. But that's not realistic (and they aren't spending the time to take the test nor paying for it). If you felt you did as well as you could, retaking with a current score of 1360 is unlikely to result in a substantial improvement unless you put in a lot of time and effort (i.e., prep courses, etc.) to improve. If you were tired, sick, thinking about something else that day, really had trouble with a certain section that you aced in practice tests, etc. -- then it might be worth retaking.

As an aside, I used to work with one of the very top STEM schools in the entire country. Average SATs were 1500 (not kidding). Many of them were turned down, including at least one I recall with 1600 SATs and more than a few with >1550. So SATs truly are not the be-all and end-all.

 

[T-37IP]

Here are the stats for the class of 22 that just graduated. Granted this is for USAFA, but I suspect they are eerily similar to USNA.

Avg GPA non-weighted: 3.78
Avg SAT 664 EBRW, 694 Math
Avg ACT 31.3 English, 31.3 Reading, 30.0 Math, 30.6 Science Reasoning

Hope that helps. This is but one piece of a much bigger puzzle.
Go Air Force, Beat Navy!

 

[NavyHoops]

If you have the means, hire a reputable SAT/ACT tutor. Doing the same things each test rarely gets a candidate there. I know not everyone has the means for this. But, if you do, a tutor who can break down areas of weakness, strategize, review, etc. can be worth it. It’s generally how I have seen most candidates make the biggest jumps after the first or second attempts. Obviously every candidate is different and resumes vary.

 

[ChatterMom2]

If my kid I would advise to try to break 700 in both areas. But the biggest factor is will he or does he want to take it again? Will he prep?

This is just my opinion. Since your son is a junior I would advise him to take it again and/or also try the ACT especially if he is not a D1 level athlete and/or doesn't check any diversity/under served community boxes. Getting a higher score can only help him. If my kid I would advise to try to break 700 in both areas. But the biggest factor is will he or does he want to take it again? Will he prep?

Khan Academy, prepscholar articles, and practice tests/advice on reddit for both SAT and ACT that is all free and can help if he is willing to put in the time whether a few months or even as little as two weeks before the exam.

@alexvitssel Thank you for the compliment!

 

[an654]

Mind you, I am a total novice (this is my first post), so this may be a dumb question. Is there any sort of sliding scale involved with the test scores and GPA for USNA? My son has a weighted 4.30 and an unweighted 3.99. Is there an allowance at all for a lower standardized test score with that GPA., or will he still need to hit the same benchmarks as everyone else? Same the other way...do the super-high test scores allow for lower GPA.'s? Hope my question makes sense.

 

[NavyHoops]

Mind you, I am a total novice (this is my first post), so this may be a dumb question. Is there any sort of sliding scale involved with the test scores and GPA for USNA? My son has a weighted 4.30 and an unweighted 3.99. Is there an allowance at all for a lower standardized test score with that GPA., or will he still need to hit the same benchmarks as everyone else? Same the other way...do the super-high test scores allow for lower GPA.'s? Hope my question makes sense.

None of us know. Even though you have lots of BGOs who have been at it for decades in some cases, the actual formula is not known to anyone outside admissions. We have seen candidates with 1550s get denied and others with 1200s get in. Many factors such as school profile also play into this. I remember a candidate a few years ago with a 3.4 GPA yet a high 1500s SAT get an appt. Can’t remember exact high school, but it was a very highly regarded high school. What classes he is taking, school profile, GPA and test scores will all be looked at.

Welcome to the forum! Best of luck to your DS.

 

[an654]

None of us know. Even though you have lots of BGOs who have been at it for decades in some cases, the actual formula is not known to anyone outside admissions. We have seen candidates with 1550s get denied and others with 1200s get in. Many factors such as school profile also play into this. A remember a candidate a few years ago with a 3.4 GPA yet a high 1500s SAT get an appt. Can’t remember exact high school, but it was a very highly regarded high school. What classes he is taking, school profile, GPA and test scores will all be looked at.

Welcome to the forum! Best of luck to your DS.

Many thanks.