Torn: USMA vs. Yale

[USMA 1994]

I have been watching this thread for a while and had to jump in. It is hard to see the forest for the trees when you are immersed in the environment and I mean no disrespect to the current cadet's perspective. Entry level classes at universities are mostly taught by entry level teachers (I use that word loosely as schools define them different). As you progress through your schooling the types of instructors will be different. The academies have very distinguished faculty as you progress through your major.

The biggest difference between the two environments is the attention and support you would receive from those teachers. At the military academy, every officer or instructor's primary mission is to develop you into a leader of character and expand your education. They are evaluated based on your success. While you can find similar individuals at a civilian college, the entire faculty is not solely focused on your development. This is the secret to the academies educational environment and why I fell that it is always ranked so high. There are no other schools in the nation where an instructor is available to meet you at almost anytime to help you succeed.

These instructors will be the field grade officers leading the forces in a few short years and want to ensure they have the most prepared company grade officers as possible. That Senior Captain may not have a PhD in math but is fully capable of teaching Calculus I. He also has the experiences gained through leading soldiers and will be able to mentor you beyond just a math class.

 

[unkown1961]

Interesting thread. You have two solid choices, yet two that are completely different. Yale prides itself on having tenure or tenure track professors teach undergrads more so that at other research schools. You can go to College Confidential and peruse there under Yale to find personal stories (or post the question), but in my 2 tours of Yale with my kids, and in talking to others, we were told that most undergrad classes are taught by professors. Per the Yale stat page, 75% of classes have under 20 students, 29% fewer than ten, and only about 40 out of 2,000 courses will have more than 100 students. So class size isn't an issue at Yale.
West Point is a great school. But Yale is a world class university in the Top 5 in many rankings. The acronym for the top US schools is HYPSM - Y being for Yale.
The lifestyle will be different. For example, your class schedule will allow more free time; you can bring whatever you want to your dorm room; you can leave campus as you please and sleep in when you want.
Both schools will set you up with a very strong alumni network. And both can lead to grad school opportunities - Rhodes Scholars have come from both of these schools for instance.
You have a great variety of advice above. But your visits will really help you determine the school - where do you feel the best fit? The two offer completely different college lifestyles and levels of personal independence, while both will lead to a military career. And each student is different as to where they feel the most comfortable. At my kids' high school, there is always the discussion of ROTC vs service academy. We sponsor USAFA cadets and have many friends who are USAFA alums, but my kids decided to do the ROTC route. Yet, they have friends who chose the service academy over an ROTC scholarship.
Good luck! It's great to have option, isn't it?

 

[unkown1961]

Actually, doctors don't teach undergrads at the Ivy's either. Undergrads are educated by grad students. Doctors do research and perhaps teach grad students. Also Ivy class size is in the hundreds which leads to a whole different quality of education, or lack thereof.

The classes at Ivies with over 100 students is typically in the single digit percent range. These are small schools and most classes are small. And there are undergrad classes taught by grad students - but not all, nor is this exclusive to the Ivies, it's true at other schools (particularly large state research universities). But many classes at the Ivies are still taught by professors. It can vary, and interested students should research this issue at the specific schools they are considering.

 

[billyb]

That is some nice and specific info given by unknown and shows why this forum is so dang helpful. Nice work unknown!

 

[unkown1961]

That is some nice and specific info given by unknown and shows why this forum is so dang helpful. Nice work unknown!

Thanks billyb! I agree that this forum is very helpful due to it's solid members.

 

[MomOfSeven]

In the Ivy Leagues I'm pretty sure they don't have all of their kids taking an introduction to calculus course their first year and students aren't given guides that tell them exactly what they need to know for each test...

Please explain the "guides that tell them exactly what they need to know for each test." Is this for all classes, or just calculus? That sounds too good to be true, but if so, wow! After seeing my kids deal with years of Common Core ambiguity, this would be wonderful!

 

[billyb]

You have to put 1337's answer into perspective.

I haven't finished my final exams yet, but if I end up keeping the same grades in all of my classes I will have a 3.9 academic GPA

1337 is obviously very, very, very smart. So what the normal USMA cadet finds difficult, 1337 might find a breeze. I knew a couple of guys like that at USMA. No matter how hard I worked, I wouldn't be on the same academic level as them (and I am not a slouch.)

I would suggest (unless academic rigor at USMA has changed a lot in 20+ years) that unless you are absolutely brilliant, don't take 1337's academic suggestions as applicable to you.

 

[RAM78]

With May 1 rapidly approaching, I'm still torn between two schools: Yale and West Point. Were I to attend Yale, I would enroll in NROTC with a Marine Option Scholarship, as military service is something that I would like to participate in. I don't think I would want to make a long-term career out of the military, but I do think that service will be a valuable learning and developmental experience (does that make me a five-and-diver?) I would like to go into a career in business or government in the future, and I feel that either option would help me on those paths. Finally, I've been told that the West Point network holds up better in the long run, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Any advice, comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi OP,
I had the same choice as you and I ended up picking USMA. If you're still around on the forum, I'm curious to know what you picked?
Thanks!