Traffic violations - effecting entry??

[carachi]

I'm obviously not eloquent enough to explain myself.
I apologise. And I shall try again if you could spare me a moment.
Ok before everyone thinks I'm not at all taking responsibility for my traffic violations. I AM! I'm disgusted and ashamed of my record. What I'm trying to iterate is that besides my 2 speeding fines my other traffic violations were quite benign compared to say speeding, drink driving, driving thru stop signs etc.
Also the "granny comment" was the actual headline of local paper piece. So no disrespect - just quoting.
Also, I would absolutely not ever reason I got these fines due to my area having over zealous police. I take full responsibility for each and everyone. I did them. I was responsible thus I'll do "the time". What I was trying to explain is. I didn't think myself as a driving offender. I actually thought I was quite safe. And as someone said "you probably did 100 other offences you were not caught for". Well that was the point I was making, I would have been caught if I did anything else wrong cause they are literally crawling the streets waiting for these misdemeaners. I can honestly say I now drive 5 -10 under speed limit due to my speeding fines and have learnt from my mistakes.
I'm just trying to say I don't flout the law that's all.

ok so prob should give u my history so u can make up mind--
-2 were parking in school zone (wasn't aware of that law till my fines came in) which u lose a point for. Thus not a parking ticket, it's an actual offence.
-Driving with a dog not harnessed in back seat. Didn't know that was a rule either.
- I mentioned the "driving a non registered car that wasn't mine and wasn't aware" offence. The cop was actually nice enough to let me drive this car home. Even though he gave me a ticket, he did say He can't not give me a ticket but I can just appeal it with an affidavit from the owner (which I did and won) BUT on the way home after already being picked up once by 1st police I got picked up again (no joke) by a different cop. Apparently they have a radar in their car for unregistered cars. Anyway I appealed both with affidavit and both were overturned. But they are sitting there on my record making it look a mess--even though it's clear they were overturned it's still making the record look long.
- stopping for 1 second -not 3 -at stop sign
And then
- two speeding -driving 10 over zone on freeway & driving 3 over zone in school zone.
So that is my history. Are they bad? Should I be prepared for instant rejection?

 

[kinnem]

All you can do is apply and see how it goes. No one here can predict with any certainty.

 

[carachi]

...
The key is how one responds to questions on the subject. Similarly, I would think these incidents, which do not involve accidents or alcohol, might actually be an easier conversation to have. Your attitude in responding to such questions will be key.

Thank you for this. A clear picture is emerging for me. Could U bare with me a little longer to let me know how best I could respond to this record? Obviously I would take full responsibility and man up to each and every one -though how can I minimise the impact without it looking like I'm minimising the severity of my record?

 

[DesertCaliMom]

In my opinion, "manning up" requires less rationalization and more pro-active mitigation.

Did you read the handbooks your state provides? Did you hire a driving Instructor to help you learn the proper ways to drive? Did you approach an officer and ask for help learning tricksnto good driving?

Saying you made a mistake is one thing. Fixing it is the right course, and by fixing it you own it completely without an excuse or rationalization.

I sincerely wish you the best when applying, and hope you find the learning experience in all your troubles.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

I
Also the "granny comment" was the actual headline of local paper piece. So no disrespect - just quoting.
Also, I would absolutely not ever reason I got these fines due to my area having over zealous police. I take full responsibility for each and everyone. I did them. I was responsible thus I'll do "the time". What I was trying to explain is. I didn't think myself as a driving offender. I actually thought I was quite safe. And as someone said "you probably did 100 other offences you were not caught for". Well that was the point I was making, I would have been caught if I did anything else wrong cause they are literally crawling the streets waiting for these misdemeaners. I can honestly say I now drive 5 -10 under speed limit due to my speeding fines and have learnt from my mistakes.
I'm just trying to say I don't flout the law that's all.

ok so prob should give u my history so u can make up mind--
-2 were parking in school zone (wasn't aware of that law till my fines came in) which u lose a point for. Thus not a parking ticket, it's an actual offence.
-Driving with a dog not harnessed in back seat. Didn't know that was a rule either.
- I mentioned the "driving a non registered car that wasn't mine and wasn't aware" offence. The cop was actually nice enough to let me drive this car home. Even though he gave me a ticket, he did say He can't not give me a ticket but I can just appeal it with an affidavit from the owner (which I did and won) BUT on the way home after already being picked up once by 1st police I got picked up again (no joke) by a different cop. Apparently they have a radar in their car for unregistered cars. Anyway I appealed both with affidavit and both were overturned. But they are sitting there on my record making it look a mess--even though it's clear they were overturned it's still making the record look long.
- stopping for 1 second -not 3 -at stop sign
And then
- two speeding -driving 10 over zone on freeway & driving 3 over zone in school zone.
So that is my history. Are they bad? Should I be prepared for instant rejection?

I knew an IDIOT 16 year old, that drove 120+ mph a few times racing his friend side-by-side on a single lane (one person was on the side of the road going against traffic). The violations were speeding, unnecessary acceleration, endangering the lives of others, and reckless driving. But this idiot wasn't caught (it was me). My excuse (looking back) was my parents didn't do a swell job of parenting. I could have killed someone. If I did, that person that I hurt wouldn't care to hear my excuse that my less-than-ideal parents let us raise ourselves. My message is that I'm not judging you (I've done much worse) as I eventually grew-up. The bottom line is my verbiage below is to help, not lecture.

I've learned a phrase that I live by: perception is reality. When you say you got 10 tickets, that leaves an impression on people and it isn't a good one. I'll list you several impressions that I got from reading your last post/rebuttal.

• Perception #1: the word "cop" by a young person sounds EVER so slightly disrespectful in comparison to a respectful phrase like "officer". Guess how I address a person pulling me over? Yep, "officer and sir/ma'am"!
• Perception #2: you did a great job explaining your point about "granny". But the perception lesson in life is even when you vindicate yourself (and you did), the perception of disrespect still lingers (you cannot flip someones impression overnight).
• Perception#3: If I was explaining my tickets, I'd say: I got two school parking tickets, an incomplete stop, two speeding tickets and not harnessing my dog in the back seat. PERIOD. If you had the other two overturned, then I would not be mentioning them. Ever. If they said "so-and-so are on your record too". My answer would be that those should not be because they were overturned. If an interviewer asked more specifically about the dog harness. I'd say, "I didn't know it was a law but when I think about it, it makes sense for both of us". See the difference?
• Perception #4: By you saying "1 second-not-3" in reference to the stop sign ticket, that has the perception of you trying to "sell me/you" how minor it is. True, it should matter but you do more harm than good perception-wise. If this was your only ticket, then maybe. But try this: If they ask (and answer only if they ask), I would say, "I learned that the definition of stopping is a full three seconds." The interviewer is going to get the impression you have changed without laying it on thick.
• Perception #5: By you debating that you don't often speed and basically get pulled over because of the overzealous police "crawling the streets waiting for these misdemeanors", that smells of 100% B.S. You will never change my lifelong experience and perception. Therefore, you are claiming that you always get caught when you speed (which is a mere two times total in 5 years). My strong perception is you are either a liar or still in denial. Your explanation is going to go against the grain of every perception known to mankind. Insurance companies have higher rates for young people and especially males. The actuaries that study the data of someone who has two tickets means that you speed fairly often. So you trying to battle that perception is impossible and it will sink you.

In short, when you understand the power of perception, it can be a powerful tool in life. Not grasping it will take all kinds of opportunities away. I will guarantee that many of my DS's life opportunities is because he has mastered the art of perception.

To answer your question about if you should apply. I would. I would phrase my ticket statements as I discussed and stay away from rationalizing (your last post did it again to a lessor degree). In parallel, get those overturned tickets off your record. It sounds like you have looked at your record printout and need the help of your county records. When asking in clerk, remember your perception will help infinitely better in getting someone to WANT and help you. How you dress, the words you chose, inflections in your voice all help. If it was me, I'd softly highlight to the person in charge letting them know how important it is for you to serve your country and what your dreams are. Maybe weave in the conversation and her/him know you have matured and learned. Let her know why those overturned violations that linger will leave a bad/ probable insurmountable impression. Ask how she/he would go about changing the transcript. Ask if she can introduce you to who is the decision maker is. But if they were overturned, I would not put them on my written record for insurance or a USAFA application. Unless someone knows otherwise...

Final point. Here is my theory of you getting so many violations. Once you get a ticket, the officer looks up your record. They think, gee, this guy hasn't learned yet! You won't often get a break and possibly even officially known by your small police force. So for the person who is speeding and never had a ticket, the perception is that they made a mistake and might get let go. For you and your record, they assume you haven't learned.

It's why I now fight every ticket that is grey. I negotiate what they want ($$==price of the ticket) and agree to keeping a perfect record for a year. Two tickets versus zero is motivational to behave. If I had a few tickets on my record and try and go to court and negotiate the same thing, they are less apt to accommodate. My son rear-ended someone at 20 mph on the highway on the 25 in CO versus getting rear-ended by a skidding semi (traffic jam). That's an automatic ticket and dummy school because he rear-ended someone. But he "fought it", paid the fine, and was watched for zero violations in a year. Now it is off his record. When he gets pulled over, the perception the police has will be different that yours. I wish you the very best. And by all means, apply!

 

[Maplerock]

Policeman let me drive his car Home?

WTHeck?
Are you female? Hard to imagine a policeman letting someone have their car. I'd imagine you're very good at explaining why it's not your fault. I asked about female because they're considerably better (IMHO) at generating sympathy, batting eyelashes, etc.

Don't be mad ladies, see my smiley face?

It still sounds to me like you're special, life isn't being fair to you, and that it's all just a series of unfortunate events.

I don't know if your transgressions will keep you out, but I suspect you'll be overwhelmed with rules if you do get in.

 

[carachi]

Policeman let me drive his car Home?

WTHeck?
Are you female? Hard to imagine a policeman letting someone have their car. I'd imagine you're very good at explaining why it's not your fault. I asked about female because they're considerably better (IMHO) at generating sympathy, batting eyelashes, etc.

Don't be mad ladies, see my smiley face?

It still sounds to me like you're special, life isn't being fair to you, and that it's all just a series of unfortunate events.

I don't know if your transgressions will keep you out, but I suspect you'll be overwhelmed with rules if you do get in.

I'm not sure my sex is rrelevant, though I do understand what ur getting at. This is a largish area though has small town mentality. Both policemen knew the owner, sort of know me and I was not far from home. And yes both police let me drive the car home. To be honest the "friend" is an elderly gentleman that I do odd jobs for to help him out as he is becoming more and more confined every day. Both these policemen know the owner well and often check in on him thus knowing about my helping him out.

I do believe I reiterate my thinking badly. At no time do I think any of my offences are small. They were wrong and I should be punished. I don't think they are a series of unfortunate events at all. I was just wondering in the face of all offences you can be fined for whilst driving would the recruiters see these as misdemeaners. And of course I would never blame the police being extra vigilant if I had to explain to RAF. I was just trying to give everyone a bigger picture. I was just trying to clear up a picture.

 

[carachi]

I
Also the "granny comment" was the actual headline of local paper piece. So no disrespect - just quoting.
Also, I would absolutely not ever reason I got these fines due to my area having over zealous police. I take full responsibility for each and everyone. I did them. I was responsible thus I'll do "the time". What I was trying to explain is. I didn't think myself as a driving offender. I actually thought I was quite safe. And as someone said "you probably did 100 other offences you were not caught for". Well that was the point I was making, I would have been caught if I did anything else wrong cause they are literally crawling the streets waiting for these misdemeaners. I can honestly say I now drive 5 -10 under speed limit due to my speeding fines and have learnt from my mistakes.
I'm just trying to say I don't flout the law that's all.

ok so prob should give u my history so u can make up mind--
-2 were parking in school zone (wasn't aware of that law till my fines came in) which u lose a point for. Thus not a parking ticket, it's an actual offence.
-Driving with a dog not harnessed in back seat. Didn't know that was a rule either.
- I mentioned the "driving a non registered car that wasn't mine and wasn't aware" offence. The cop was actually nice enough to let me drive this car home. Even though he gave me a ticket, he did say He can't not give me a ticket but I can just appeal it with an affidavit from the owner (which I did and won) BUT on the way home after already being picked up once by 1st police I got picked up again (no joke) by a different cop. Apparently they have a radar in their car for unregistered cars. Anyway I appealed both with affidavit and both were overturned. But they are sitting there on my record making it look a mess--even though it's clear they were overturned it's still making the record look long.
- stopping for 1 second -not 3 -at stop sign
And then
- two speeding -driving 10 over zone on freeway & driving 3 over zone in school zone.
So that is my history. Are they bad? Should I be prepared for instant rejection?

I knew an IDIOT 16 year old, that drove 120+ mph a few times racing his friend side-by-side on a single lane (one person was on the side of the road going against traffic). The violations were speeding, unnecessary acceleration, endangering the lives of others, and reckless driving. But this idiot wasn't caught (it was me). My excuse (looking back) was my parents didn't do a swell job of parenting. I could have killed someone. If I did, that person that I hurt wouldn't care to hear my excuse that my less-than-ideal parents let us raise ourselves. My message is that I'm not judging you (I've done much worse) as I eventually grew-up. The bottom line is my verbiage below is to help, not lecture.

I've learned a phrase that I live by: perception is reality. When you say you got 10 tickets, that leaves an impression on people and it isn't a good one. I'll list you several impressions that I got from reading your last post/rebuttal.

• Perception #1: the word "cop" by a young person sounds EVER so slightly disrespectful in comparison to a respectful phrase like "officer". Guess how I address a person pulling me over? Yep, "officer and sir/ma'am"!
• Perception #2: you did a great job explaining your point about "granny". But the perception lesson in life is even when you vindicate yourself (and you did), the perception of disrespect still lingers (you cannot flip someones impression overnight).
• Perception#3: If I was explaining my tickets, I'd say: I got two school parking tickets, an incomplete stop, two speeding tickets and not harnessing my dog in the back seat. PERIOD. If you had the other two overturned, then I would not be mentioning them. Ever. If they said "so-and-so are on your record too". My answer would be that those should not be because they were overturned. If an interviewer asked more specifically about the dog harness. I'd say, "I didn't know it was a law but when I think about it, it makes sense for both of us". See the difference?
• Perception #4: By you saying "1 second-not-3" in reference to the stop sign ticket, that has the perception of you trying to "sell me/you" how minor it is. True, it should matter but you do more harm than good perception-wise. If this was your only ticket, then maybe. But try this: If they ask (and answer only if they ask), I would say, "I learned that the definition of stopping is a full three seconds." The interviewer is going to get the impression you have changed without laying it on thick.
• Perception #5: By you debating that you don't often speed and basically get pulled over because of the overzealous police "crawling the streets waiting for these misdemeanors", that smells of 100% B.S. You will never change my lifelong experience and perception. Therefore, you are claiming that you always get caught when you speed (which is a mere two times total in 5 years). My strong perception is you are either a liar or still in denial. Your explanation is going to go against the grain of every perception known to mankind. Insurance companies have higher rates for young people and especially males. The actuaries that study the data of someone who has two tickets means that you speed fairly often. So you trying to battle that perception is impossible and it will sink you.

In short, when you understand the power of perception, it can be a powerful tool in life. Not grasping it will take all kinds of opportunities away. I will guarantee that many of my DS's life opportunities is because he has mastered the art of perception.

To answer your question about if you should apply. I would. I would phrase my ticket statements as I discussed and stay away from rationalizing (your last post did it again to a lessor degree). In parallel, get those overturned tickets off your record. It sounds like you have looked at your record printout and need the help of your county records. When asking in clerk, remember your perception will help infinitely better in getting someone to WANT and help you. How you dress, the words you chose, inflections in your voice all help. If it was me, I'd softly highlight to the person in charge letting them know how important it is for you to serve your country and what your dreams are. Maybe weave in the conversation and her/him know you have matured and learned. Let her know why those overturned violations that linger will leave a bad/ probable insurmountable impression. Ask how she/he would go about changing the transcript. Ask if she can introduce you to who is the decision maker is. But if they were overturned, I would not put them on my written record for insurance or a USAFA application. Unless someone knows otherwise...

Final point. Here is my theory of you getting so many violations. Once you get a ticket, the officer looks up your record. They think, gee, this guy hasn't learned yet! You won't often get a break and possibly even officially known by your small police force. So for the person who is speeding and never had a ticket, the perception is that they made a mistake and might get let go. For you and your record, they assume you haven't learned.

It's why I now fight every ticket that is grey. I negotiate what they want ($$==price of the ticket) and agree to keeping a perfect record for a year. Two tickets versus zero is motivational to behave. If I had a few tickets on my record and try and go to court and negotiate the same thing, they are less apt to accommodate. My son rear-ended someone at 20 mph on the highway on the 25 in CO versus getting rear-ended by a skidding semi (traffic jam). That's an automatic ticket and dummy school because he rear-ended someone. But he "fought it", paid the fine, and was watched for zero violations in a year. Now it is off his record. When he gets pulled over, the perception the police has will be different that yours. I wish you the very best. And by all means, apply!

Thank you so much for this post. I can now see a murky picture coming into focus.
So the way I address this should be this -- everybody has already perceived what this record means and it is up to me to prove them otherwise though with respect, humbling myself and keeping the explanations to an absolute minimum. Completely taking responsibility for everything and at no time do not use words that scream -- I'm the victim, it wasn't my fault even if I don't mean to. I'm to be extra careful that this is "perceived" by whom ever is reading my record that I have learnt from my mistakes.

A really wonderful and productive post. I thank you.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

I

Thank you so much for this post. I can now see a murky picture coming into focus.
So the way I address this should be this -- everybody has already perceived what this record means and it is up to me to prove them otherwise though with respect, humbling myself and keeping the explanations to an absolute minimum. Completely taking responsibility for everything and at no time do not use words that scream -- I'm the victim, it wasn't my fault even if I don't mean to. I'm to be extra careful that this is "perceived" by whom ever is reading my record that I have learnt from my mistakes.

A really wonderful and productive post. I thank you.

Agreed^^. Giving people the bigger picture requires very careful choice of words.

If interviewed, I'd practice boiling it down to the lowest common denominator. If asked to summarize your tickets, you could say: "As far as my moving violations, I've learned a valuable lesson out of these tickets. Stop for a full three seconds versus one, slow down and leave the house a few minutes early, including leaving 10 minutes earlier than the last minute to get a valid parking spot at school." If asked about the driving an unregistered car (GET THAT REMOVED), explain "I was helping a elderly neighbor with chores and he offered for me to use his car. As it turns out, it wasn't registered and got a ticket (and later removed). I won't make that mistake again because if i got in an accident, that would have been a messy situation." Clean, simply, and to the point. In your mind, view tickets as legit moving violations (that's how people perceive them). That way, it isn't listed as 10 on your record (people skim and if they see 10, you could be passed based off of perception).

 

[Tigger]

This is insulting. With or without a smiley face.

Policeman let me drive his car Home?

WTHeck?
Are you female? Hard to imagine a policeman letting someone have their car. I'd imagine you're very good at explaining why it's not your fault. I asked about female because they're considerably better (IMHO) at generating sympathy, batting eyelashes, etc.

Don't be mad ladies, see my smiley face?

It still sounds to me like you're special, life isn't being fair to you, and that it's all just a series of unfortunate events.

I don't know if your transgressions will keep you out, but I suspect you'll be overwhelmed with rules if you do get in.

 

[Maplerock]

This is insulting. With or without a smiley face

Figured you'd chime in. :-D

No harm intended. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I actually wanted to explain more, but its futile. In today's topsy turvy political society, if you look for insults, you'll find them.

 

[Tigger]

The insult is there. I wasn't looking for it.

This is insulting. With or without a smiley face

Figured you'd chime in. :-D

No harm intended. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I actually wanted to explain more, but its futile. In today's topsy turvy political society, if you look for insults, you'll find them.

 

[Alaskan]

Policeman let me drive his car Home?

WTHeck?
Are you female? Hard to imagine a policeman letting someone have their car. I'd imagine you're very good at explaining why it's not your fault. I asked about female because they're considerably better (IMHO) at generating sympathy, batting eyelashes, etc.

Don't be mad ladies, see my smiley face?

It still sounds to me like you're special, life isn't being fair to you, and that it's all just a series of unfortunate events.

I don't know if your transgressions will keep you out, but I suspect you'll be overwhelmed with rules if you do get in.

You folks need to relax.

 

[Maplerock]

Policeman let me drive his car Home?

WTHeck?
Are you female? Hard to imagine a policeman letting someone have their car. I'd imagine you're very good at explaining why it's not your fault. I asked about female because they're considerably better (IMHO) at generating sympathy, batting eyelashes, etc.

Don't be mad ladies, see my smiley face?

It still sounds to me like you're special, life isn't being fair to you, and that it's all just a series of unfortunate events.

I don't know if your transgressions will keep you out, but I suspect you'll be overwhelmed with rules if you do get in.

You folks need to relax.

Good advice. I'm not incensed, I post everything as my opinion. That's all they are, opinions. Yours may differ. That's OK.

Some people do seem to get chapped.

 

[Tigger]

Not incensed or chapped. Just refuse to remain silent to insults.

Policeman let me drive his car Home?

WTHeck?
Are you female? Hard to imagine a policeman letting someone have their car. I'd imagine you're very good at explaining why it's not your fault. I asked about female because they're considerably better (IMHO) at generating sympathy, batting eyelashes, etc.

Don't be mad ladies, see my smiley face?

It still sounds to me like you're special, life isn't being fair to you, and that it's all just a series of unfortunate events.

I don't know if your transgressions will keep you out, but I suspect you'll be overwhelmed with rules if you do get in.

You folks need to relax.

Good advice. I'm not incensed, I post everything as my opinion. That's all they are, opinions. Yours may differ. That's OK.

Some people do seem to get chapped.

 

[Capri120]

Okay, seldom have I come to Maplerock's defense, however...

As the wife of a former AF fighter pilot, an aerospace engineer in a male dominated field, a former AF aircraft maintenance officer, again in a male dominated field, you learn to take and understand the jokes and satire of the men.

I'm sure Maplerock's wife does the same thing I do to many of my husband's comments...rolls her eyes and says "whatever".

If you cannot take some innocent comments, you will have a very difficult time in any branch of the military. You will gain the greatest respect from your male counterparts by being the best you can be as a person and not being overly sensitive to occasional sarcastic remarks.

 

[Tigger]

Yeah...I am not built for the whole eye-rolling thing. Sexism is sexism. Ready to call it out whenever I see it. Not incensed or chapped. We do a disservice to the next generation when we make excuses for this kind of behavior. Just keeping it real.

Okay, seldom have I come to Maplerock's defense, however...

As the wife of a former AF fighter pilot, an aerospace engineer in a male dominated field, a former AF aircraft maintenance officer, again in a male dominated field, you learn to take and understand the jokes and satire of the men.

I'm sure Maplerock's wife does the same thing I do to many of my husband's comments...rolls her eyes and says "whatever".

If you cannot take some innocent comments, you will have a very difficult time in any branch of the military. You will gain the greatest respect from your male counterparts by being the best you can be as a person and not being overly sensitive to occasional sarcastic remarks.

 

[In-the-Know]

Ok great. Thank you both for that insight. I myself am horrified that I have these violations. I never thought of myself as a law breaker EVER! but the way you have both put it, I suppose I am.
Stellar applicant I am. I believe, at the risk of sounding arrogant, an extremely strong competitor for application. I would def. say this area is my only problem. But it's a big problem isn't it. It could be a decider.
Ok. If I could breakdown my violations to u would that help? What I mean is I believe most, though not all, there is a reason for each one. Do u think they would bother listening or just see them as excuses.
I don't believe they are excuses, only reasons. I take full responsibility for each one, I just know they don't define me in anyway with regards to the law.
For example, where I live, is a quiet and affluent area (I'm not affluent at all, am living in where I work). The police are bored and their only revenue and excitement is traffic stops. In fact it is such a problem in this area it has been in our local paper. Stopping grannies for driving too slow for example. Hence my 1sec stop sign not 3secs. I just think if they actually look at each offence they might see I'm not actually breaking the law, it's just been an interpretation of the law. Except for the 2 actual speeding fines I received I can honestly say I could have taken each one to court and probably got each one overturned. But who can afford that.
Anyway, do I reiterate this to recruiting and application or do I just beg to be forgiven and ask them to trust that it won't be a future occurrence.
Or should I just not bother applying at all? (Which just maybe unthinkable).

Hmmm. A blamer. Will you blame your subordinates when your screw up? How about your boss, your neighbor, your friend?

 

[Capri120]

Tigger, maybe in another 30 - 40 years, you will understand and gain the proper perspective of real insults versus respectful and comradory joking, trying to find common ground.

 

[Tigger]

I think you don't understand my age or the professional world I have worked in. Sexism is sexism. I am not going to back down.

Tigger, maybe in another 30 - 40 years, you will understand and gain the proper perspective of real insults versus respectful and comradory joking, trying to find common ground.