United States Naval Academy vs Brown BS/MD

[auk]

Brown students start encampment on campus to protest violence in Gaza

As nationwide protest against the violence in Gaza continue to spread on college campuses, students at Brown University have created a similar encampment.

turnto10.com

No such BS at USNA.

I would do the Brown program for sure in this situation since it sounds like medicine is your primary goal.

I wouldn’t worry about perceived “campus politics” at the Ivies when making your decision. Plenty of Ivy League students choose to not get involved in others’ political events or protests. The news makes a big deal about those sort of events, but on campus, it’s very very easy to just avoid them

Campus politics isn't a concern for me. I know I'll encounter different opinions wherever I end up in life. If I end up surrounded by people with different viewpoints, I'll stick it through. Thanks for the response though!

 

[Ivy22]

Campus politics isn't a concern for me. I know I'll encounter different opinions wherever I end up in life. If I end up surrounded by people with different viewpoints, I'll stick it through. Thanks for the response though!

That's the spirit!

 

[usna1985]

Maybe try thinking about this from the opposite end. Where do you want to be 20 years from now? Private practice vs. teaching hospital? Big city vs. small town? Surgeon vs. primary care?

For example . . . Are you looking to be a plastic surgeon in a big city who (for the most part) has rich, cash-paying patients? Are you looking to be a neurosurgeon? Are you looking to work as a primary care provider in an underserved community? Are you looking to work in a teaching hospital full time (as an attending)? Do you want to spend most of your time doing research? Are you considering work in the public health sector?

Do you mostly want to stay in the US or do you want the "adventure" (and drawbacks) of military life -- usually being stationed in lots of places?

For some of the above, the military is really not a viable option. For others, the military can be a great jumping off point.

Finally, the civilian path is not always "better" than the military, though MAY be more lucrative. Know a couple where both were military MDs. One (a surgeon) got out after about 15 years and did another 15 years in the civilian sector. The other (radiologist) talked to colleagues in the civilian side and decided that wasn't what they wanted to do. Too much pressure to bring in business. Too much haggling with insurance companies. Stayed in for 30 years and now only occasionally moonlights at a local military hospital. No desire to jump into the civilian world.

 

[auk]

I may be able to provide some small insight. My husband was completing his application to USNA (many years ago) and received acceptance to a combined BA/MD program similar to Brown. Same guarantee of no MCAT, guaranteed acceptance to the MD portion, as long as you tow the line for the first years. The difference is it didn't have the same price tag as Brown. After researching, he really got cold feet and his concern was not being able to choose his specialty or residency location. He pulled his USNA application and went to the civilian college. After graduation, he chose to do a 5 year double residency - emergency medicine and internal medicine. Something he likely would not have been able to do in the military. However, in his last year of residency, the US Navy was overjoyed to accept him and put him through OCS. He fulfilled his goal of becoming a Naval officer, and being a physician in the specialty he wanted. He was basically told, we'll send you anywhere you want (they REALLY loved the 2 board certifications) I know that the price here may be a deterrent, but it is near impossible to get into medical school nowadays. I know because I have a daughter who is in her second year of med school right now. It's not for the faint of heart. Many kids take a year off after college just to get all the shadowing and work experience in, and to study. Not having to take the MCAT is a major factor, for those who have not taken it. There are many paths to your goal. I like your pros and cons list. Follow your heart and congrats to you for being accepted into 2 amazing institutions!! Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat with my hubs.

I may be able to provide some small insight. My husband was completing his application to USNA (many years ago) and received acceptance to a combined BA/MD program similar to Brown. Same guarantee of no MCAT, guaranteed acceptance to the MD portion, as long as you tow the line for the first years. The difference is it didn't have the same price tag as Brown. After researching, he really got cold feet and his concern was not being able to choose his specialty or residency location. He pulled his USNA application and went to the civilian college. After graduation, he chose to do a 5 year double residency - emergency medicine and internal medicine. Something he likely would not have been able to do in the military. However, in his last year of residency, the US Navy was overjoyed to accept him and put him through OCS. He fulfilled his goal of becoming a Naval officer, and being a physician in the specialty he wanted. He was basically told, we'll send you anywhere you want (they REALLY loved the 2 board certifications) I know that the price here may be a deterrent, but it is near impossible to get into medical school nowadays. I know because I have a daughter who is in her second year of med school right now. It's not for the faint of heart. Many kids take a year off after college just to get all the shadowing and work experience in, and to study. Not having to take the MCAT is a major factor, for those who have not taken it. There are many paths to your goal. I like your pros and cons list. Follow your heart and congrats to you for being accepted into 2 amazing institutions!! Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat with my hubs.

This is exactly the situation I'm in, thank you! PMing you.

 

[NavyGirl06]

Sounds like we are/were in similar shoes!

I want to ask about ROTC and medicine- were you also a BS/MD program? To my understanding, you have to apply for an educational gap to do medical school with ROTC. Medicine is not guaranteed when you do ROTC because they may have you serve first/not approve your educational gap. Can you confirm or shed light on this?

Sorry for the random ROTC questions in the USNA thread, they popped up when I saw your response. Thanks!

I wish i could answer this but I have not actually started yet I start this fall. I have been talking with the CO of my ROTC unit and they're planning to do an educational delay for me and send me to med school before I serve, but I am not sure how to answer your question

 

[Ivy22]

Sounds like we are/were in similar shoes!

I want to ask about ROTC and medicine- were you also a BS/MD program? To my understanding, you have to apply for an educational gap to do medical school with ROTC. Medicine is not guaranteed when you do ROTC because they may have you serve first/not approve your educational gap. Can you confirm or shed light on this?

Sorry for the random ROTC questions in the USNA thread, they popped up when I saw your response. Thanks!

Not sure about other branches ROTC, but for NROTC, I know someone who got into Harvard Medical School (#1 med school in the country), and the Navy did not allow them to take that gap to attend it and become a doctor. They went into another warfare community, did their 5 years, got out of the Navy, and attended a different medical school afterwards (HMS didn't allow him to defer for 5 years)...

 

[jebdad]

I have been talking with the CO of my ROTC unit and they're planning to do an educational delay for me and send me to med school before I serve, but I am not sure how to answer your question

With AROTC, I believe a deferment to attend med school is regularly accessible. I have a child who completed her undergrad and is currently deferred while she attends school to attain her DPT.

 

[bethf]

@auk, check your messages

 

[Full Steam]

Sounds like we are/were in similar shoes!

I want to ask about ROTC and medicine- were you also a BS/MD program? To my understanding, you have to apply for an educational gap to do medical school with ROTC. Medicine is not guaranteed when you do ROTC because they may have you serve first/not approve your educational gap. Can you confirm or shed light on this?

Sorry for the random ROTC questions in the USNA thread, they popped up when I saw your response. Thanks!

For what it's worth, this year the Navy ROTC scholarship page has information on a Pre-Med Option. This isn't something I've seen in the past.
You may want to read the info under the tab for Prospective Midshipmen>Pre-Med Option, including the linked Program Authorization.

NROTC Unit staff may have more information.

 

[BayouDad]

Another aspect in the civilian world is National Health Service offers a student loan debt reimbursement rural medicine program. I know a number of people from NP to MD who signed a 3 yr contact and received 50-100k to use (they suggest paying down the loans but it’s really for what ever you decide). On top of the salary you would be getting paid. Still have to make the minimum monthly payments. A friends husband, MD, paid off his entire med school debt in 6 yrs through the program

 

[Just Dad]

Gotta say, the whole “I won’t have to take the MedCAT” thing makes almost zero sense to me as a rational for going to Brown.

If the goal is to practice general medicine in rural Arkansas or work at a “Doc in the Box” in a strip-mall passing out Cipro as you pay off $700K in student debt on a $130k a year earnings……. I guess the Brown Program makes sense. Beyond this, what you practice and where you practice is determined in Med School, Internships, Residency, Board Certification, and getting someone to hire you. Each of these gates are accessed based upon performance at the pervious institution (school, teaching hospital)…….testing testing testing. Of course, each successive level tests the winners of the last level against each other. There is no escaping THE MERITOCRACY, particularly in the private sector professions. A college can suspend a given measure of competency; (“no tests," "everybody gets an A”), but you're just gonna have to face the music at the next level . You wanna be a Shrink, Gas-Passer, any kinda Surgeon, Radiologist, Lollipop-Lord, Cardio,…Etc., there will be brutal competition to get into the specialty, let alone where you practice that specialty. Medical practice strikes me as a bad place for someone looking to avoid a MedCAT test.

My hope for the OP is that he/she recognizes that at 18-19 years old there is still a lot to learn about themselves; let alone the world. The average age of a first year Med Student is 32. So why not bet on yourself? Let the USNA build “The Best You”. Note: DD had Brown on her list of Plan Bs. A great undergrad program but they don’t build people….. they provide classes. You go USNA, meet your 5yr service obligation. You know who the 'Adult You’ is, and you've seen some of the world before you decide how the next 35-40 years of your life will be spent. Boy, I hope OP does this.

General Practice Medicine (of the type Brown supports) is under huge pressure to expand treatment and lower costs. The life of a GP, MD change, (is changing) significantly as a result. GPs will be employees of corporations (if they aren’t already). GPs will also find much of their diagnostic practice taken over by Nurse+Sensor+Huge queryable databases supported by AI. It’s already happening, but you ain't seen nothing yet. OP should ask around, see if he/she can find a GP that would tell a young person to go to med school to be a GP.

If the OP’s goal is to pursue a speciality and join a professional partnership practice, (excelling in the Med-Meritocracy). He or she should understand that hiring partners in desired practices/areas receive tons of CVs for open positions that all look about the same in terms of competency, Creds, awards. You know what a private practice hiring partner is looking for OP? After the “competency box" is checked, a hiring partner is looking for associates/Jr partners, who know how to be a Team Player. Doctors who will identify with the interests of the practice group; people who will step in and do more than their share when the group hits a snag; people who always show up ready to contribute any way they can; people who don’t put their individual interest ahead of the Drs/nurses/hospitals the work with.
Where you went to undergrad doesn’t really tell you much about the person, unless that person went to ……………………………(that’s right).

DW’s hospital based private practice group (top 3 in Seattle Area) has had 3 SA Grads apply for openings over the last 30years; (they hired all three). One guy went USNA and flew A4s. Got out, went to med school, before becoming DW’s partner (serving in USN reserves). He ended up as CEO of the Hospital, I wish I could carry a little hate-envy for him, but he’s too good a guy.

Congrats on the appointment OP. Best of luck to you.

 

[creation123]

Hello, I am a current high school senior choosing between the United States Naval Academy and Brown PLME (8 year BS/MD program). The Academy and medicine are both dreams for me and I know they might not be compatable.

Brown PLME

Pros	Cons
guaranteed admission into Warren-Alpert medical school no need to take MCAT no need to apply to medical schools open-curriculum	no financial aid 80k+ per year for undergraduate 90k+ per year for medical school 700k+ total

United States Naval Academy

Pros	Cons
guaranteed job as Naval officer upon graduation military community and connections attend med school for no tuition (Uniformed Services University) or educational costs scholarship (any medical school) free get paid around 1k monthly leadership, discipline, and physical development	less likely chance of going into medicine must apply for Navy med corp billet (<20 students per year) will have to take MCAT will have to apply to medical schools

Everything about the Naval Academy, from lifestyle to military opportunities, appeals to me more except for the non-guarantee in medicine.

If I go to Brown, I will likely do ROTC or the Health Professions Scholarship Program, so I will ultimately end up in the military.

I know this is a decision that will ultimately be up to me. I know asking this forum is asking a very biased sample but I would like to get outside opinions on these two programs to help me make a better educated decision.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these two programs in general and when it comes to medicine? Does anyone have experience with either of the programs? Thank you!

These seem so different, but I do want to add that considering you got into Brown's program, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get the Navy med corp billet OR do well enough on the MCAT to get into a medical school, so the cons feel a little obsolete there

At the same time, if you do ROTC/HPSP at Brown, that cuts down your cost a LOT, so I'd look into that.

Congrats!

 

[OldRetSWO]

These seem so different, but I do want to add that considering you got into Brown's program, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get the Navy med corp billet OR do well enough on the MCAT to get into a medical school, so the cons feel a little obsolete there

Predicting MCAT performance based on High School grades just MIGHT be a little premature.

-s-
A college professor and parent of a Med School student.

 

[Heatherg21]

These seem so different, but I do want to add that considering you got into Brown's program, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get the Navy med corp billet OR do well enough on the MCAT to get into a medical school, so the cons feel a little obsolete there

At the same time, if you do ROTC/HPSP at Brown, that cuts down your cost a LOT, so I'd look into that.

Congrats!

Getting into Brown’s med program is one thing. Navigating the gauntlet that is the time suck and multi tasking world of SA life is another.
Regardless of prestige and pomp and circumstance and all those shiny things—- SAs are no joke. Hard place to be - all while holding out hope you may get the tiny % that is selected medical.
I will always advocate for service then med school. I think those who have served have empathy and a window into service beyond self.