Dad
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,132
So I can say with confidence that I am 30x more of a hard-ass parent than most!
So I can say with confidence that I am 30x more of a hard-ass parent than most!
Haley,
I mean this with kindness, but the problem with forums like this is it can be misinterpreted very quickly.
Trust me, I have been taken out to the woodshed ALOT!
I am with Blackbird on this issue.
I would also like to point out your 30 times more mature could be read as offensive and arrogant. With that comment I wonder do you hang with your GFs from HS over breaks?
I believe my 3 kids had a maturity level at the same level as you.
Sorry, but I was truly offended by the 30x comment.
I hope and believe that if they attended a college that places character into the equation, they would not find some lame arse excuse to remove their selves from a situation that they know did not adhere to the dotted line they sign on when accepting an appointment.
You are giving a pass IMPHO for breaking the regs.
I have to say, sorry I will not agree with you if your defense is 30x more mature! 30x more mature means when you broke the reg you wore 30x more aware it was wrong!
The military is very clear cut on what is expected. Heck, as a senior in HS when you turn 18, your folks are locked out because you are no longer a minor!
This life is something you volunteer for and accepted on I Day. You knew drinking underage was not allowed!
~ Your defense, they screwed up because of being young!
I get your stance, but have yet to understand why AFA cadets should or shouldn't be kicked out. They broke the law for underage drinking and were caught. Can yo say with true belief they followed the honor code? 1 drink underage at the AFA or at abr says to me you broke the code!
Lastly, drinking alcohol underage is not an integrity issue. I have clarified this several times with cadets in charge of honor in the past. Does that mean that you're good to go and do whatever the heck you want? Of course not. Unless you lie about what happened, you will not get an honor hit for drinking underage. That doesn't make it a good decision and it doesn't mean you shouldn't get the appropriate discipline for it.
If I say I won't engage in an activity and then do engage in said activity is that different than engaging in an activity and then saying I didn't?
Pima, you consistently try to expand the Honor System beyond how USAFA views it. Regulatory and even criminal violations are not necessarily honor hits. If it is not lying, cheating, stealing, or tolerating one of the first 3, the USAFA honor system does not address that. So, in an underage drinking case, there may be UCMJ violations without Honor Code violations unless someone lied about something or stole it.Than you agree by the UCMJ they broke the law? Correct? They either were underage or maybe supplied alcohol to minors. That is illegal.
That brings us full circle to why if the AFA decides to make them repay it is fair to some posters. The we/they are young and will make mistakes does not fly. They broke the law, and thus, through your own post the AFA has the right to come after them via the UCMJ. You all signed a legal document agreeing to this high level of standards. Bringing in peers in a traditional college setting is just a red herring.
~ Those peers never signed that type of commitment.
Now for those that were just there and watched underage cadets drink, that is an honor code issue IMPO and they shouldn't be held at the same level.
Let's remember that it is most likely every cadets punishment will vary based on the results of their investigation.
...It would not be an honor violation to fail to report underage drinking. The USAFA conception of Honor, as it pertains to disciplinary actions is not as expansive as some people's personal definitions of honor. The USAFA code is simply a baseline that is pretty black and white.
The key word for me here is "pattern." This suggests it wasn't a one time thing, but an ongoing and frequent behavior.
The question that comes to mind is why was it addressed now and not sooner? Why wasn't it nipped in the bud when it was a "one time oops got carried away and was stupid" thing?
Was this a matter of one or more people in charge looking the other way for too long until something so bad happened that it couldn't be ignored any more? And if that is the case, then aren't they enablers to some extent, and is the administration addressing this issue as well?
I think we can all agree that young people can sometimes do stupid things. I think we can all agree that when it happens, someone aught to "smack them up side the head" and tell them to knock it off, make wiser decisions and if you do it again, the penalty will be more severe.
My concern here is not so much with stupid behavior but with the fact that it was allowed to develop into a pattern of behavior before it was addressed.
I think I'll go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over.