USAFA Waiting Thread C/O 2027

franknd said:
Thought a little more about this, and I would revise it down to a little under 500 (490+/-) appointments that are from other than USAFAPS. Estimating about 180 USAFAPS appointments, which all come in mid-May, I'm backing those out both from the prior 3 years of appointment lists since there are only about 3 reported there per year; and obviously there are none in this year's list so far. So if you back 180 out of about 1400 total appointments and do the resulting ratio (115/192 (the most-recent 3-year average)), it leaves about 490 appointments to go other than those from USAFAPS.
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Frank,
So the majority of prep school slots come in mid-May? If so, I guess your portal doesn’t change until then? Otherwise, you will get a rejection by 21Apr, correct??
 
Tigers2023 said:
Same in the AF. Although most pilots do not tend to go away to a graduate school. Most bases have a couple of masters degree options and that’s where I got mine. That seemed to be more of the norm.
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It sounds like the wait to get into pilot training is getting a little backed up. What do those do while waiting for their pilot training to start.

What is your interpretation of why pilots might not go to grad school. My guess would he they want to go right into pilot training but if that’s backed up could an academy grad go to grad school and then into pilot training. With pilot training I know there is a commitment for service time. What obligations do those sent to grad schools from the academy have.
 
Tigers2023 said:
Frank,
So the majority of prep school slots come in mid-May? If so, I guess your portal doesn’t change until then? Otherwise, you will get a rejection by 21Apr, correct??
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I was referring to appointments from the Prep School to the Academy, not appointments to the Prep School.
 
Kfmurphy1 said:
It sounds like the wait to get into pilot training is getting a little backed up. What do those do while waiting for their pilot training to start.

What is your interpretation of why pilots might not go to grad school. My guess would he they want to go right into pilot training but if that’s backed up could an academy grad go to grad school and then into pilot training. With pilot training I know there is a commitment for service time. What obligations do those sent to grad schools from the academy have.
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My information is dated for sure, so I really can't speak for those waiting for pilot training. I'm sure it depends on the wait, some will be assigned to a job at their UPT base. I had friends that were in "casual status" while waiting, and that was just doing small jobs until their UPT class started.

My interpretation of why pilots might not go to grad school? Once you graduate UPT, you will go to your follow on training. Lots of options here, so I won't get into that. But once you get qualified on your new aircraft, there are so many quals left depending on your type of aircraft. It can take many years to achieve the highest qualification level, and most pilots want to achieve these levels. Most think your company grade years (O-1 to O-3) are about becoming the best in your weapon system. Field grade years are time for follow on schools (professional military education) and leadership positions. Most pilots don't want to leave the cockpit to go to graduate school, and honestly, most aren't afforded that opportunity. Most are expected to fly and be operationally proficient.

Masters degrees are important to make field grade. I'm not sure of the latest, but at one time, this information was not supposed to be a part of your promotion record. But, it's there for sure. Commanders know and they will assign a ranking for each Officer meeting a promotion board. So many of the pilots I know (including myself) took masters classes at a university that had office space on base. For example, Embry Riddle offers masters degree programs at most larger bases.

Many pilots seek to go to airlines after their initial commitment. They just want to concentrate on getting as many flight hours and qualifications as possible to improve their chances. I can't think of an airline that really cares where you got your undergraduate degree, much less if you have a masters.

When officers get a chance at going to a graduate school, they have an obligation to serve extra years for this benefit. But, almost all of the time, this time runs concurrent with your previous commitment. Effectively, it adds little to no time to your commitment. It really depends on how much commitment you have left. For example, UPT has a 10 year commitment AFTER pilot training.
 
My data is a bit dated too, but from the class of 2011 approximately 10% of the class went directly on to graduate school. Those with a UPT slot kept their slot and went to UPT after grad school. Several of my oldest son’s friends did that and got their masters (or higher) before starting flight training. The cadets need to apply to a program and have scholarships/funding in place before graduation to do this. As was mentioned above, their extra AD time commitment for getting their masters was concurrent with their UPT obligation so it had no effect since their flight training makes it 10 years, anyway.

The casual status jobs while waiting for UPT are varied. Some stayed at USAFA and worked in admissions, others helped with sports teams. Our son went to his UPT base (Laughlin) and worked as the night shift officer in the command post for six months before starting UPT.

Son ended up getting his masters in Statistics from Florida International University while he was stationed near Miami. It was a blended program with online courses and the group also met on campus one evening a week for in-person. He did finish up and write his thesis while stationed in Korea, so the program was flexible. While not official, a masters is still effectively required for O-5.

Stealth_81
 
Stealth_81 said:
My data is a bit dated too, but from the class of 2011 approximately 10% of the class went directly on to graduate school. Those with a UPT slot kept their slot and went to UPT after grad school. Several of my oldest son’s friends did that and got their masters (or higher) before starting flight training. The cadets need to apply to a program and have scholarships/funding in place before graduation to do this. As was mentioned above, their extra AD time commitment for getting their masters was concurrent with their UPT obligation so it had no effect since their flight training makes it 10 years, anyway.

The casual status jobs while waiting for UPT are varied. Some stayed at USAFA and worked in admissions, others helped with sports teams. Our son went to his UPT base (Laughlin) and worked as the night shift officer in the command post for six months before starting UPT.

Son ended up getting his masters in Statistics from Florida International University while he was stationed near Miami. It was a blended program with online courses and the group also met on campus one evening a week for in-person. He did finish up and write his thesis while stationed in Korea, so the program was flexible. While not official, a masters is still effectively required for O-5.

Stealth_81
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100%.

I can’t speak for delays after graduation from USAFA now. It varies over the years, sometimes you go immediately and others had really long waits. I’m sure there are some cadets that know what is going on now, but remember this will be old information if your son/daughter/self is beginning this year. But at least you have more recent info.

Just remember, for those that choose to go to grad school before UPT, your 10 year pilot commitment doesn’t start until after you graduate from UPT. It adds to your time.

For those that don’t know, USAFA years doesn’t count to retirement. If you attend Prep School, that time counted (or at least used to, again, things could have changed)….
 
Osprey123 said:
Unless there is something exceptional about his application, that SAT score is too low for an Ivy.
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Yeah, he knew it was a long-shot when he applied. They turned him down. He's got some state college options, but he knows he blew the SAT.
 
Tigers2023 said:
My information is dated for sure, so I really can't speak for those waiting for pilot training. I'm sure it depends on the wait, some will be assigned to a job at their UPT base. I had friends that were in "casual status" while waiting, and that was just doing small jobs until their UPT class started.

My interpretation of why pilots might not go to grad school? Once you graduate UPT, you will go to your follow on training. Lots of options here, so I won't get into that. But once you get qualified on your new aircraft, there are so many quals left depending on your type of aircraft. It can take many years to achieve the highest qualification level, and most pilots want to achieve these levels. Most think your company grade years (O-1 to O-3) are about becoming the best in your weapon system. Field grade years are time for follow on schools (professional military education) and leadership positions. Most pilots don't want to leave the cockpit to go to graduate school, and honestly, most aren't afforded that opportunity. Most are expected to fly and be operationally proficient.

Masters degrees are important to make field grade. I'm not sure of the latest, but at one time, this information was not supposed to be a part of your promotion record. But, it's there for sure. Commanders know and they will assign a ranking for each Officer meeting a promotion board. So many of the pilots I know (including myself) took masters classes at a university that had office space on base. For example, Embry Riddle offers masters degree programs at most larger bases.

Many pilots seek to go to airlines after their initial commitment. They just want to concentrate on getting as many flight hours and qualifications as possible to improve their chances. I can't think of an airline that really cares where you got your undergraduate degree, much less if you have a masters.

When officers get a chance at going to a graduate school, they have an obligation to serve extra years for this benefit. But, almost all of the time, this time runs concurrent with your previous commitment. Effectively, it adds little to no time to your commitment. It really depends on how much commitment you have left. For example, UPT has a 10 year commitment AFTER pilot training.
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“After pilot training”. Is that just the initial pilot training or does the ten years begin after you get trained on whatever you are assigned to.
 
Kfmurphy1 said:
“After pilot training”. Is that just the initial pilot training or does the ten years begin after you get trained on whatever you are assigned to.
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UPT. 10 years after graduation. You’ll also pick up a commitment after your follow on training, but it will be less than your UPT commitment and runs concurrent. Everything’s a commitment. PCS (Permanent Change of Station), training courses, Tuition Assistance, etc. But unless they take you over your UPT commitment, it will have no impact.
 
Tigers2023 said:
UPT. 10 years after graduation. You’ll also pick up a commitment after your follow on training, but it will be less than your UPT commitment and runs concurrent. Everything’s a commitment. PCS (Permanent Change of Station), training courses, Tuition Assistance, etc. But unless they take you over your UPT commitment, it will have no impact.
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I’m a little confused. When you say 10 years after graduation I’m guessing you mean ten years after graduation from flight training? What is the time frame for flight training?
 
Kfmurphy1 said:
I’m a little confused. When you say 10 years after graduation I’m guessing you mean ten years after graduation from flight training? What is the time frame for flight training?
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I’ll try to be more clear. After graduation from USAFA, if you are selected as a pilot you will attend Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (SUPT). This program lasts about 1 year, and upon graduating, you are awarded your “Wings” and are now considered a rated pilot. At this point your 10 years start.
Towards the latter part of SUPT you will get your follow on assignment. F-35, C-17, etc.
You may hear the term UPT from older guys, it’s just what they used to call it.
 
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I'm curious if there is any correlation between obtaining an AFROTC scholarship and an appointment to the academy? Meaning if you get one, will you likely get the other. This year there were 500 scholarships given out this year and it looks like about 1200 appointments. Makes me think that the ones getting the scholarships are likely to get an appointment too? Or do they know if they aren't getting an appointment and then put them on a scholarship list or something like that? They all end up at the same place 4 years from now, but I have friends from quite a few years ago that said they got both, so that just made me wonder.
 
Palmetto1 said:
I'm curious if there is any correlation between obtaining an AFROTC scholarship and an appointment to the academy? Meaning if you get one, will you likely get the other. This year there were 500 scholarships given out this year and it looks like about 1200 appointments. Makes me think that the ones getting the scholarships are likely to get an appointment too? Or do they know if they aren't getting an appointment and then put them on a scholarship list or something like that? They all end up at the same place 4 years from now, but I have friends from quite a few years ago that said they got both, so that just made me wonder.
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I suspect there is a correlation, and it's because 4-year, Type 1 AFROTC winners are extremely well qualified. So those who also applied to the AFA likely also have a better than average change of appointment due to their excellent qualifications, as demonstrated by having won the AFROTC scholarship. But correlation does not equal causation, so I doubt there is any kind of "link" between the two.
 
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