USMMA to the Air Force

Futureafcro

5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
1
Hi,
I know that after you graduate from KP that you can branch into any military branch however I am wondering the process. While you are attending kp can u already be training for a particular military branch or job? and I am also wondering if kp has any slots to send people to air force combat rescue officer training.
Thanks
 

tankercaptain

5-Year Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
487
If you really want to be an air force combat rescue officer I suggest that you look at AFA or AFROTC. Your training and education at the Kings Point is all towards becoming a Merchant Marine Officer and as such you can be very dissappointed should you not do or get what you would like to do as a career.
 

Pima

10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
13,944
I agree with Tanker, what is your career goal? AF CRO? If so, USMMA might not be a strong fit for you.

OBTW AF CRO is considered a very competitive field.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
48
@Pima , just want to know, are you guaranteed an active duty commission (Air Force, Navy, etc.) in USMMA as long as you have very good grades (3.8 GPA), but minimal PRT scores (60's)? A USNA or USAFA appointment seems to be much harder to receive now.
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
295
I agree with Tanker, what is your career goal? AF CRO? If so, USMMA might not be a strong fit for you.

OBTW AF CRO is considered a very competitive field.
I know a guy from the class of '16 who is a CRO. Shouldn't be telling people that USMMA is or is not a good fit if you're not familiar with USMMA.
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
295
@Pima , just want to know, are you guaranteed an active duty commission (Air Force, Navy, etc.) in USMMA as long as you have very good grades (3.8 GPA), but minimal PRT scores (60's)? A USNA or USAFA appointment seems to be much harder to receive now.
This year you were guaranteed a commission even if you had terrible grades. In 4 years, under a different defense and political climate its impossible to know.

Air Force doesn't care about PFA scores as much. But I don't know how you think you're going to get a 3.8. Having that GPA at KP would put you in the top 5-10 grads at least in a given year.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
48
@Mr2020 , does the Navy care a lot about KP PFA scores? U said the AF doesn't, but I'm wondering about the Navy. (my 2nd choice is the USN after USAF post KP graduation).

Also, what jobs in the AF can I get w/ a Marine Engineering degree?
 

KPEngineer

Eternal Father ...
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
1,220
Nothing is guaranteed ... EVER!. The PFA is essentially pass/fail.
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
295
@Mr2020 , does the Navy care a lot about KP PFA scores? U said the AF doesn't, but I'm wondering about the Navy. (my 2nd choice is the USN after USAF post KP graduation).

Also, what jobs in the AF can I get w/ a Marine Engineering degree?
No the Navy does not care about PFA scores. They commissioned a guy this year who had failed his PFA like 5 times and hadn't even passed when they offered him a commission. That is unless you are going seal or edo, in that case they care a lot. Nobody got into BUD/s this year.

You can get any job in the Air Force with a marine engineering degree. There's a test you take called the AFQ something. That may have a bearing on what job you get.
 

kpmidmanguy20

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
23
@Mr2020 , does the Navy care a lot about KP PFA scores? U said the AF doesn't, but I'm wondering about the Navy. (my 2nd choice is the USN after USAF post KP graduation).

Also, what jobs in the AF can I get w/ a Marine Engineering degree?
No the Navy does not care about PFA scores. They commissioned a guy this year who had failed his PFA like 5 times and hadn't even passed when they offered him a commission. That is unless you are going seal or edo, in that case they care a lot. Nobody got into BUD/s this year.

You can get any job in the Air Force with a marine engineering degree. There's a test you take called the AFQ something. That may have a bearing on what job you get.
AFOQT is what you’re referring to. Air Force Officer Qualifying Test.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
48
@Mr2020 , I heard that the Naval Science courses taken at KP qualify u for a Naval direct commission. In a scenario where a kid majored in Mechanical Engineering and minored in Naval Science (but didn't do NROTC), does that qualify him for a direct commission? (just for knowledge sake). Also, did the guy who failed his pfa 5 times commission through the SSOP program (becoming a Reserve Ensign, which every graduate from KP becomes), or become an AD SWO? For the AF or Navy, I want to become a AD officer. I have no ambition whatsoever to become a reservist.
 

Humey

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,436
My son commissioned through AFROTC. Now of course I didnt see him do it and i am sure there are aspects of it that I have no idea about, but I somehow doubt those four years at a civilian college were superior in training to someone who went to USMMA. For all I know they may be equal but I highly doubt the person going to USMMA is going to be heavily disadvantaged. Sure my son is going to know all the organizational and leadership aspects of the Air Force as he is directly taught that, but I have to imagine that USMMA would also instill leadership qualities and other aspects all officers need to know. Everything else is done throught on the job training. Now my son is in UPT, so he basically entered into the Air Force, learned to make popcorn (for the newer guys waiting for UPT to begin) while waiting for UPT to start and spend the next year going to classes, going through simulators and then actually flying 1-2 hours per day. The process doesnt really require that someone attend four years at USAFA.
 

KPEngineer

Eternal Father ...
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
1,220
@Mr2020 , I heard that the Naval Science courses taken at KP qualify u for a Naval direct commission. In a scenario where a kid majored in Mechanical Engineering and minored in Naval Science (but didn't do NROTC), does that qualify him for a direct commission? (just for knowledge sake). Also, did the guy who failed his pfa 5 times commission through the SSOP program (becoming a Reserve Ensign, which every graduate from KP becomes), or become an AD SWO? For the AF or Navy, I want to become a AD officer. I have no ambition whatsoever to become a reservist.
I would not use the term "direct commission" in relation to USMMA. Direct Commission has a very specific meaning as it relates to Naval Officer accessions. This is typically for those with specific skill sets or education and credentials to be commissioned into specific communities requiring those. Think Doctors, Lawyers, Nurses, Chaplains, etc.

I believe the Naval Science dept. at USMMA is part of the Navy's ROTC hierarchy and that KP is technically one big ROTC unit. On paper anyway.
 

KPEngineer

Eternal Father ...
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
1,220
@KPEngineer , what about the story of the pfa faliure?
I find that story difficult. There are ways to continue with failures depending on the specifics of it and how often you fail and how they are spread out. As long as you have passed your latest PFA, typically the previous failures will not count against you. I can see someone with 5 previous failures being commissioned but only if the most recent PFA had been passed.
 

KPEngineer

Eternal Father ...
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
1,220
@KPEngineer , so I am almost completely good for an ADAF or ADN commission as long as I get my 60's on the pfa, perform well academicaly and not do anything dumb?
That is impossible to say. Officer accessions vary from year to year in terms of how many slots are available for each service and each community within each service and how many of those slots will go to which commissioning source. Add to that the records of those you would be competing against and you can see how impossible it becomes to predict. Even the Navy isn't planning four years out at this point so even the Navy couldn't tell say you are "almost completely good".

I would say as long as you pass your PFAs, perform reasonably OK academically and don't do anything significantly dumb than by 1/C year it would likely just be a numbers game.
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
295
@KPEngineer , what about the story of the pfa faliure?
I find that story difficult. There are ways to continue with failures depending on the specifics of it and how often you fail and how they are spread out. As long as you have passed your latest PFA, typically the previous failures will not count against you. I can see someone with 5 previous failures being commissioned but only if the most recent PFA had been passed.
As I said, they offered him the commission while he had not passed his most recent PFA. After he eventually passed he graduated and commissioned. And that was a SWO billet. The school was sending him to a PRB to possibly throw him out because of all of his failures.

I want to become a AD officer. I have no ambition whatsoever to become a reservist.
I would recommend not going to KP. It isn't a place for someone who HAS to become an AD officer. The accession targets could be dramatically reduced in four years. It is certainly possible, we are at a high point in the cycle right now. Four years from now it could certainly be the opposite end. And they could hit their accession targets without using KP. This year something like 40-50% of the class went AD. 75 AD vs 99 SSOs, probably one of the highest percentages in recent times.
 
Top