USMMA's Post Grad (many) Options and Service Obligation

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Zinc4

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If you're researching KP, please take a deep dive into the many options that
grads have and also the very important service obligation.

Options:
Sail on a US flagged commercial vessel
Go Active Duty, Any Branch
Go Reserves, Any Branch
Go ANG, Any Branch
Go NOAA
Go Peace Corps
Work ashore or for Maritime-related Federal Government Job

Also important, know what MARAD says about the service obligation upon graduation. Waivers
must be granted for certain career paths, especially in the current market. As has been stated in previous threads, the shipping industry needs skilled workers, and
MARAD is currently focused upon that need. See link for reference.


***For those knowledgeable folks reading this, please correct any of these statements if they are not factual.
 
Peace Corps has never been an option as far as I know, but service in the Commissioned Corps of the US Public Health Service is.
 
Zinc4 said:
If you're researching KP, please take a deep dive into the many options that
grads have and also the very important service obligation.

Options:
Sail on a US flagged commercial vessel
Go Active Duty, Any Branch
Go Reserves, Any Branch
Go ANG, Any Branch
Go NOAA
Go Peace Corps
Work ashore or for Maritime-related Federal Government Job

Also important, know what MARAD says about the service obligation upon graduation. Waivers
must be granted for certain career paths, especially in the current market. As has been stated in previous threads, the shipping industry needs skilled workers, and
MARAD is currently focused upon that need. See link for reference.


***For those knowledgeable folks reading this, please correct any of these statements if they are not factual.
Click to expand...
I have a question regarding sailing on US Flagged Vessels. From what I’ve read, numbers of ships US Flagged are way down & continuing to decline. In some cases, grads are having to get exceptions for their service commitment to sail on Foreign Ships. Is there any truth to this?

If so where are the major shortages in the industry currently?
 
DesertGuy said:
I have a question regarding sailing on US Flagged Vessels. From what I’ve read, numbers of ships US Flagged are way down & continuing to decline. In some cases, grads are having to get exceptions for their service commitment to sail on Foreign Ships. Is there any truth to this?

If so where are the major shortages in the industry currently?
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The number of deep-draft, ocean going vessels is way down. There are still thousands of smaller vessels such as harbor, inland, and offshore towing vessels which still count for your obligation. I am not sure about offshore, such as drilling rigs/ships, which are not US-Flagged. I have run in to many recent grads so as long as the company is US you may get away with the vessel being not.
 
KPEngineer said:
The number of deep-draft, ocean going vessels is way down. There are still thousands of smaller vessels such as harbor, inland, and offshore towing vessels which still count for your obligation. I am not sure about offshore, such as drilling rigs/ships, which are not US-Flagged. I have run in to many recent grads so as long as the company is US you may get away with the vessel being not.
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So no shortage of work for grads - glad to hear. With Non-US vessels do you know if they prefer KP engineers or cheaper foreign labor?

In your opinion is there more demand present and future for Engineers or Deck?
 
DesertGuy said:
So no shortage of work for grads - glad to hear. With Non-US vessels do you know if they prefer KP engineers or cheaper foreign labor?

In your opinion is there more demand present and future for Engineers or Deck?
Click to expand...
Foreign flag vessels other than drill rigs/LNG carriers, etc pay peanuts in general and less than you would earn working at Starbucks. If you want to work on them that's your choice.

More demand for engineers, however the engineering degree at KP is not equivalent to a traditional engineering degree. Deck is more of a business degree but also not equivalent to a traditional business degree.
 
Mr2020 said:
Foreign flag vessels other than drill rigs/LNG carriers, etc pay peanuts in general and less than you would earn working at Starbucks. If you want to work on them that's your choice.

More demand for engineers, however the engineering degree at KP is not equivalent to a traditional engineering degree. Deck is more of a business degree but also not equivalent to a traditional business degree.
Click to expand...
You say not the equivalent… I would assume better?
 
DesertGuy said:
So no shortage of work for grads - glad to hear.
Click to expand...

There is never really a shortage overall, but there may be shortages in certain segments. In a given year there may be a lot of jobs on tugs but not many in the union hall. The next the hall may be hurting to find people and tugs are full. It's all cyclical and a new grad should go in with an open mind and a plan of how to get what you want then move on if where you start isn't where you want to be long term. There is pretty much always going to be jobs available at Military Sealift Command (MSC). Personally I think MSC is great for a new grad who wants a LOT of sea time to upgrade quickly but once you got your management level license I would move on.

DesertGuy said:
With Non-US vessels do you know if they prefer KP engineers or cheaper foreign labor?
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The economics make it very difficult for a company to hire US Mariners for non-US vessels. A licensed engineer would probably make more than Starbucks considering you are only working part year vs full year, however it wouldn't be a lot more and you could expect a longer contract than you would sign on for in the US. The non-US flag wages are geared towards the location they recruit mariners from such as the Philippines, India, Malaysia, and Ukraine among others. This allows them to pay high wages for those areas but far below what a US Mariner would be willing to work for. A new engineer would make something in the vicinity of $40k for a 9 month contract.

Sailing non-US would be an interesting experience as one would find that the US maritime industry has a very different operating culture than the rest of the world but I would not plan a career around it.

The only place that sailing non-US is going to make you good money is on a drill rig/ship.

DesertGuy said:
In your opinion is there more demand present and future for Engineers or Deck?
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I would suggest not using present and/or future demand as a guide in choosing a major. Pick the one you would enjoy the most. Ships/Boats are very small when you don't get along with people and they feel even smaller if you don't like what you are doing. Most likely you would also find it much more difficult to complete KP successfully if you do not like what you are studying.
 
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Bduett said:
You say not the equivalent… I would assume better?
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Better for this industry for sure.

I personally would not use the term "traditional engineering degree" as there are so many varieties of engineering degrees. Marine Engineering is similar to Mechanical Engineering but nothing like Chemical, Industrial, or Systems Engineering for example.

If you compare the courses in a KP Engineering degree to a Mechanical Engineering degree from StateU you will see a lot of commonalities. If one wanted a degree from KP that was the closes to that ME degree you would need to complete the Marine Engineering Systems Degree. Straight Engine is like MechEng lite (Somewhere between Mechanical Engineering and Engineering Technology) with some maritime specific courses for electives.
 
Mr2020 said:
More demand for engineers, however the engineering degree at KP is not equivalent to a traditional engineering degree. Deck is more of a business degree but also not equivalent to a traditional business degree.
Click to expand...
I would disagree with this statement. When I decided to move ashore, I encountered very few issues getting employment as a mechanical engineer. However, while at the Academy I took electives in Machine Design and Mechanical Vibrations. That was many years ago but that company still hires grads from KP without reservation. The largest shortcoming I ever encountered is when I sought a Masters, the university felt I needed a course in Differential Equations. As far as business, I also had a KP co-worker (engineer) that moved from an engineering role to a management role after acquiring an MBA.
 
JohnPAKP65 said:
I would disagree with this statement. When I decided to move ashore, I encountered very few issues getting employment as a mechanical engineer. However, while at the Academy I took electives in Machine Design and Mechanical Vibrations. That was many years ago but that company still hires grads from KP without reservation. The largest shortcoming I ever encountered is when I sought a Masters, the university felt I needed a course in Differential Equations. As far as business, I also had a KP co-worker (engineer) that moved from an engineering role to a management role after acquiring an MBA.
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I thought the mention of Differential Equations was interesting. My son (USCGA class of 2025, Cyber Systems major) took Differential Equations as an elective at the Academy last semester because he said it's something that is looked for for grad school and he wants to keep all his options open.
 
For KP graduates, did you know exactly what you wanted to do heading into Indoctrination? If not what was your path to figuring it out like?
 
I am the father of a KP grad who, when reporting for Indoc, had no idea what path she would take. She was wise enough to deeply explore ALL the options and has done well. There are may opportunities to do so. (I have explained her path which ended at KP elsewhere.) Second, I have two engineering degrees. To even hint that a maritime engineering degree from KP does not prepare one for the rest of the engineering world is absurd. Moreso if the 5 years are spent at sea or portside rather than active duty.
 
DesertGuy said:
For KP graduates, did you know exactly what you wanted to do heading into Indoctrination? If not what was your path to figuring it out like?
Click to expand...

I knew 100% and never waivered but I had also been to sea already and had experienced both deck and engine work prior to attending. I did toy with the idea briefly of going Systems but that was never a realistic option for me and that was the only thing I was ever unsure about.

It is not abnormal for people to start indoc being 100% sure of what they want only to make a different choice when it came time to selecting majors. There were also always people who changed their perspective after their first sea year and would switch majors upon their return, Typically, but I am not sure if it was always, with a setback.

There were also people who were given the choice of changing from engine to deck or being invited to continue their scholastic endeavors elsewhere. The assumption was always that if you can't handle the academics as an engineer you might be able to as a deckie but not the other way around. Although I do know exceptions to that rule.
 
DesertGuy said:
For KP graduates, did you know exactly what you wanted to do heading into Indoctrination? If not what was your path to figuring it out like?
Click to expand...
I had an idea that I was going to choose engineering. I have always had an interest in mechanical things, so it seemed a good fit.
 
JohnPAKP65 said:
I would disagree with this statement. When I decided to move ashore, I encountered very few issues getting employment as a mechanical engineer. However, while at the Academy I took electives in Machine Design and Mechanical Vibrations. That was many years ago but that company still hires grads from KP without reservation. The largest shortcoming I ever encountered is when I sought a Masters, the university felt I needed a course in Differential Equations. As far as business, I also had a KP co-worker (engineer) that moved from an engineering role to a management role after acquiring an MBA.
Click to expand...
My son is a 3/c now, an engineer, and taking Diff EQ as we speak.
 
DesertGuy said:
I have a question regarding sailing on US Flagged Vessels. From what I’ve read, numbers of ships US Flagged are way down & continuing to decline. In some cases, grads are having to get exceptions for their service commitment to sail on Foreign Ships. Is there any truth to this?

If so where are the major shortages in the industry cur
Click to expand...

DesertGuy said:
For KP graduates, did you know exactly what you wanted to do heading into Indoctrination? If not what was your path to figuring it out like?
Click to expand...
I wanted to be a SWO in the Navy and get an engineering degree.Got an appointment to KP and Annapolis but we had a family connection at KP who told me it was a different kind of engineering degree that showed you how to actually be a mechanic, an electrician, pipefitter, welder and plumber. Plus the year at sea experience and then I heard about the $$$. Didnt change my mind about being SWO and then after 5 yrs and 2 division officer tours in the Navy, I decided I wanted the big payday of the Merchant Marine so I dusted off my marine license and joined MEBA marine engineers union. Stayed in the Naval Reserve and retired from the NR and Merchant Marine double dipping in 2 pensions.
 
Zinc4 said:
Ah yes, thank you for that correction! Also adding Military Sealift Command (MSC) to the list.
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MSC? RUN!!! Haha J/k. MSC is actually paying a little better these days. Just hard to get a relief when its time to get off for a vacay.
 
KPEngnr90 said:
MSC? RUN!!! Haha J/k. MSC is actually paying a little better these days. Just hard to get a relief when its time to get off for a vacay.
Click to expand...
Current posting for a MSC 3rd mate reads

Average Annual Salary: $156,502 + $35,688 BONUS​

This is the average annual salary not the base pay featured in the job opportunity announcement. All calculations include CIVMAR total take-home pay (including overtime, penalty, etc.).
 
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