USNA Admissions FAQs -- AKA "Am I Competitive?"

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by usna1985, Apr 8, 2017.

  1. usna1985

    usna1985 10-Year Member

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    Below are some questions that are frequently asked on this site.

    Note: Although every effort has been made to be accurate, these have not been reviewed, approved, or endorsed by USNA.


    Am I competitive? Will I get in? What are my chances? [And similar questions]


    The answer is that NO ONE KNOWS. Seriously, there is no way anyone on this forum can give you anything more than a general reaction to the information you post. We’ve never met you. We haven’t seen any of your packet; thus, we haven’t seen your teacher recs, your activity sheet, your BGO interview summary, your CFA scores, etc. We don’t know if you’ve been arrested for drugs/DUI or have been suspended from school. Nor do we know if you have special circumstances that might help you – i.e., having to work to support your family, being heavily recruited for a sport. Not to mention, we’re relying on your word/honesty in terms of all that you post.

    Even if we had all of the relevant information about you, we still couldn’t tell you whether you’ll be appointed. Why? We don’t know whom you’re competing against.

    What folks on this site CAN do, based on what you tell us, is let you know if anything stands out as being weak as compared to the TYPICAL candidate who receives an appointment. Again, that advice is given in a vacuum. Also, many successful candidates are NOT typical. Thus, while your record may appear to have a glaring weakness, there may be things about you that we don’t know that, in USNA’s view, make up for it. Or, there may be reasons that we don’t know that explain it (i.e., changing schools three times in h.s. due to moves may make it difficult to have continuity in high school activities).

    The one thing that is certain is that, if you don’t apply, you definitely won’t get an appointment.

    What SAT scores do I need to get in?

    Can’t tell you. Each year, USNA publishes a “class profile” for the entering class. It contains a range of SAT scores. Looking at it, you’ll see that most candidates who were accepted had very high scores – but some did not. Below is more discussion about this topic.

    First, SAT/ACT scores are only one factor in your application. USNA considers many things, including (but not limited to), the rigor of your high school academic program (classes and levels you take), your grades, class rank, CFA score, h.s. activities, leadership, teacher recs, etc. Thus, a great or terrible SAT score is unlikely, in and of itself, to make or break you. It’s considered along with other factors.

    Second, the scores you need depend in part on the competition that year. Competition for USNA is fierce and even students with SATs above 1400 who are otherwise competitive may NOT get appointments. Thus, SAT/ACT scores are not the be-all and end-all.

    Third, if you scored less than 800/800 (or ACT equivalent), there is room for improvement. Realistically, in this hyper-competitive environment, if you aren’t at 650/700 you should probably consider retaking the test.

    Fourth, USNA is a technical school. Thus, there is a greater focus on the math SAT/ACT . Your math SAT should be a 650 or better. Not saying you won’t be accepted with less, just that it’s harder.

    Fifth, USNA takes your highest verbal and highest math scores from either the SAT or ACT. Thus, there is no reason not to take them multiple times, other than financial cost and cost of your time.

    Sixth, being scholastically qualified for USNA is only half the battle. You also need a nom. Depending on where you live, scores good enough for USNA may not be good enough to snag one of the MOC noms.

    You may want to discuss this with your BGO. If your BGO suggests you retake the SAT, he/she is basing that on experience. The fact you do it and improve your score does not mean your status will necessarily change. It’s just advice, but typically good advice.

    Should I report all of my SAT/ACT scores to USNA?

    Yes. USNA takes your highest math and highest verbal. There’s nothing to suggest that a “pattern” of low scores will hurt you with USNA if you eventually get a higher score. That may not be true with civilian schools, so be sure to consider that when making your decision.

    What high school classes should I take to maximize my chances?

    As a general rule, you should take the most challenging “core” courses you can handle. That means, if at all possible, your senior year should include English, calculus, science (chemistry or physics), advanced language, and/or history. If you have the English, science, and calc covered, one non-core course – music theory, art history, psychology, etc. won’t hurt. [Not saying those aren’t great courses but they won’t help you in USNA admissions.] Take AP or honors level in as many as you can handle. USNA knows how many AP/IB/Honors courses your school offers and wants to see you challenging yourself by taking these more intensive courses. Grades of A and B are good; As are obviously better.

    Is it better to get a B in an AP course or an A in a regular course?

    Well, it’s obviously better to get an A in an AP course.:) Seriously, no easy answer. How USNA views it will likely depend on the other courses you’re taking and grades you receive, how rigorous your high school is considered to be, what other things may be impacting your school performance (i.e., need to work), etc.

    My GPA is 3.9 – what are my chances?

    See the discussion above. Depends on the classes you take, the rigor of your school, etc. Also, USNA is more interested in class rank than your GPA. Why? You may have a 3.90, but what if 70% of your class has a 3.91 or better? Great GPA but you’re still in the bottom 1/3 of your class.

    My high school doesn’t rank. What do I do?

    There’s nothing you can do. That’s USNA’s problem. Some schools may give ranges (i.e., if a student has a 3.5, that would generally put him/her in the top 25% of the class). USNA indicates that they often call the school and try to get them to provide a rank. If not, USNA may have experience with the school and know what GPAs tend to mean. You aren’t going to change your school; this isn’t the first time USNA has dealt with this issue, so relax.

    How early should I turn in my package?

    As early as you can and still make it as good as possible. Applications turned in earlier will be reviewed earlier and, hopefully, a decision made earlier.

    I turned in my package in [pick the month] and I haven't heard anything from USNA. What's taking so long?

    A couple of points here. First, be sure that everything is complete with your packet, not just the stuff you personally supply. So, are your teacher recs in? Your transcript submitted? Your BGO interview done? If not, USNA hasn't looked at your packet. Even if you're 100% done, it's a LONG line. There’s only one Admissions Board and they meet once a week and have lot of applications to work through. As tough as it is, be patient.

    Should I turn in an updated resume?

    You should update your package with any "significant" new information. What's significant? New grades, honors (e.g., attaining Eagle Scout, all-district in sports, scholarship recipient), recognitions (e.g., team captain), etc. The fact that you simply joined another club isn't going to make much difference. One important note: all SCHOOL-RELATED additions need to be verified by your school counselor or USNA won't consider them. For non-school items, consider sending "objective evidence" such as certificates of achievement.

    Should I turn in 7th semester grades?

    USNA often requests 7th semester h.s. grades from certain candidates. This is not necessarily a good or bad sign – simply that USNA wants more information. If your grades are great and not requested, consult your admissions counselor (Regional Director) regarding whether to submit them.

    What's the deal with LOAs?

    Letters of Assurance were developed in response to civilian college Early Action/Decision programs. LOAs are typically given to very highly qualified candidates. An LOA says that IF you qualify medically and physically (CFA), AND get a nom, and there are no other significant changes (you fail your classes, are arrested, etc.) you will receive an appointment. Two points worth noting: (1) USNA has been cutting back on the number of LOAs in recent years, and (2) the overwhelming majority of admitted candidates do NOT have LOAs.

    Why do some people get LOAs and others don't?

    No easy answer. Why are some students admitted Early Decision to civilian schools and others aren’t? Why do some candidates receive appointments and others don't? Ultimately, the reason is that USNA considers the LOA candidate to be a particularly desirable candidate.

    When are LOAs sent out?

    Although most LOAs go out in the fall, they can be sent as early as NASS and as late as February.

    I didn't get an LOA. Am I doomed?

    Absolutely not. Your goal is an appointment. As noted, the number of LOAs is diminishing; the number of appointments remains largely the same. Focus on putting together the best package you can because that is the only thing in this process you can control. And, BTW, if you get an LOA and an appointment and decide to attend USNA, NEVER, EVER mention your LOA at USNA. No one cares. No one. Once at USNA, you're all on equal footing on day one.

    I have an LOA. USNA will "find" a nomination for me, right?

    Wrong. It is still up to YOU to obtain a nomination. Every year, there are LOA candidates who aren’t able to obtain a nom. These days, they are almost always turned down. So, even if you have an LOA, give 100% to obtaining a nomination.

    FAQS on Athletics, Medical, and ECAs

    Below are commonly asked questions regarding athletics and the CFA, a bit about the medical exam, and extra-curricular activities.

    Note: Although every effort has been made to be accurate, these have not been reviewed, approved, or endorsed by USNA.

    Do I have to participate in high school varsity sports to be accepted to USNA?

    No. However, ~90% of each entering class participates in varsity sports. Sports and physical fitness are very important at USNA. Thus, you should like to be physically active and to participate in organized sports. The best way to demonstrate this is to participate in sports during your high school years.

    Must they be school sports?

    No. You can be active in sports outside of school.

    What sports does USNA like best?

    There is no official policy on this. If possible, you should try to participate in at least one team sport. Being a good team member is good preparation for USNA. You may want to pick a sport that will force you to do a fair amount of running, as this will be very helpful at USNA.

    If you pursue an individual sport -- one where you are essentially competing one on one vs. other competitors (e.g., swimming, diving, gymnastics, martial arts, wresting), it is important to demonstrate your level of competition. Thus, to the extent you are all-district, or a league MVP, or have the tenth best time in the state, etc., be sure USNA knows about this.

    Does marching band count as a sport?

    Not in the eyes of USNA. It counts as an ECA (extra-curricular activity) discussed below.

    I’m home schooled or my school doesn’t have a sports program.

    If you’re home schooled, it’s even more important to demonstrate that you have the requisite level of physical fitness and team-oriented approach. Look for community leagues (police youth leagues, Catholic leagues, city leagues, etc.) that you can join. Or consider a sport such as swimming, where you can demonstrate your athletic prowess by your times in various events. If you are in this situation I suggest you avoid making martial arts your only sport, as it connotes (accurately or inaccurately) a “loner.”

    I think I’m good enough to play varsity at USNA. What should I do?

    If you’re a recruited football or basketball athlete, there are special rules set forth by the NCAA that are beyond the scope of this Q&A. Follow them! If you are involved in another sport, contact the USNA coach for that sport; his/her contact info should be on the usna.edu website.

    What’s the scoop on the CFA?

    The Candidate Fitness Assessment (CFA) is a test that applies for USNA, USMA and USAFA; you need only take it once even if you’re applying to multiple SAs. However, different SAs may score it differently. If you want to know exactly what it consists of and how it’s administered, go to the usna.edu website and search under Admissions and then CFA. It has all the details.

    What is the max score? What is the average score? What score do I need to pass?

    The usna.edu website gives the maximum repetitions or time for each event (after which you get no additional credit). If you “max out” each event, you will have the max score. USNA does not publish the minimum, average or passing score.

    How do I know if I've passed or failed the CFA ?

    USNA will notify you if you have failed. Your BGO also is informed whether you have passed or failed but does not see your scores. As noted above, "passing" may not be good enough. In this era of super competitive admissions, it's more important than ever to do well -- not merely pass -- your CFA. If you haven't maxed out, or come very close, consider retaking the CFA and submitting the new scores. Every little bit helps!

    Can I get “bonus points” for doing really well on the CFA?

    Yes. Doing extremely well will give you a slight “bump” in the admissions process. However, it will not make up for an otherwise sub-par package.

    Can I retake the CFA? Should I?

    Yes, you may retake the CFA as many times as you want until the final submission deadline of January 31. If you believe you can significantly improve your scores in one or more areas, then you may wish to retake it. Note, however, that USNA does not "superscore" the CFA. Rather, if you decide to retake, your old scores are erased and the new scores take their place. IOW, regardless of whether you do better . . . or worse . . . on your retake, those new scores are the ones that count.

    What do I do if I want to retake the CFA?

    If you want to retake the CFA, you contact your RD and let him/her know. The RD will "reset" the system to allow a new score to be substituted. Note that, unlike SATs/ACTs, USNA doesn't take the "best" results from each test; rather, the new test will be substituted for the old test.

    I’m female and I can’t do any pull-ups. Is this a problem?

    Technically, no. Realistically, maybe. Females who cannot do a single pull-up may do the flexed arm hang instead. However, the max score for the hang is lower than the score for a single pull-up. So start now and try to squeeze out at least one!

    Does the CFA I took at NASS count?

    Yes. If you’re satisfied with it, you’re done. If your score was below the max, you have plenty of time to improve your fitness and retake it.

    When do I schedule my medical exam?

    Generally, if you are an official candidate and have 50% of your packet complete, you will be notified by DODMERB about scheduling your medical exam.

    Help! I’m in the DODMERB morass. What do I do?

    First of all, your BGO cannot help you. For privacy reasons, BGOs are told not to get involved in the medical part of the admissions process. You should contact DODMERB and/or the person at USNA responsible for addressing medical waiver questions.

    I have asthma but don’t use an inhaler [or any other specific medical situation]. What are my chances of a waiver?

    There is no way anyone on this site can answer your question as every situation is unique. The fact that 99% of people with a certain condition do (or don’t) get waivers means nothing in terms of whether you will. The ONLY thing to do is to go through DODMERB process. If you need a waiver, you’ll be automatically considered for one – you don’t need to do anything to apply.

    What are ECAs?

    ECAs are your “extra-curricular activities” and include what you do outside of academics and sports. They include in-school activities as well as those outside of school.

    Which ECAs are best?

    The ones that appeal to you. Life is too short for you to spend your free time doing things you hate in the hopes of getting into USNA. And, there are no “right” or “wrong” activities. Like most colleges, USNA is looking for a diverse group of people, so it’s fine if you’re a musician or artist in your spare time. It’s fine if you work on your school paper, are a member of the debate club, class treasurer, volunteer for the fire department or at a homeless shelter, work a job, tutor, teach Sunday School, and on and on.

    Then what is USNA looking for with ECAs?

    Two things. First, consistency. It’s better to do one or two ECAs for four+ years and be very involved than just to be a member of 10 ECAs. Second, and this is MOST important, leadership in your ECAs. Sometimes, leadership appears obvious – for example, class or club president. However, there is a difference between leadership and popularity. Thus, you should be able to discuss what you have actually done to lead – recruited more members than in the past 10 years, put on a major fundraiser, set up a new program, etc. Sometimes, you can lead without officially being a leader – for example, you may work for a dog rescue group and you become responsible for organizing adoption days, etc.

    I’ve switched high schools three times in four years. I have no continuity.

    First, USNA will take this into account in evaluating your application. What you want to do is find a type of activity in which you can demonstrate continuity – for example, you participate in the same club at each school. Second, you can lead in less than a year. Volunteer to head up a project. Come up with a new idea/project for the group and take charge of it. You don’t have to be an elected officer to be in charge.

    Do I have to do military-oriented ECAs?

    No. Honestly, I’m not even sure they help all that much from an ECA standpoint. If they interest you and are available, great. If you’d rather do something else, do that. You’ll have plenty of time at USNA to do military stuff.

    Please see the follow on sticky for additional Q&As.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  2. hopeful2022

    hopeful2022 New Member

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    Thank you so much for this post. It's really helped with some of my "what if" nerves!
     
  3. 18cjones

    18cjones New Member

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    Really answered some of my questions that i coudnt find one to!
     
  4. FTG20

    FTG20 New Member

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    Extremely helpful post
     
  5. USNA2016bound

    USNA2016bound New Member

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    Is it an issue if you're in pre-cal math your senior year?
     
  6. Miaa

    Miaa New Member

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    Thank You so much, This is really helpful!
     
  7. Dwight02

    Dwight02 Member

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    Hello, I have a few questions regarding the preliminary application. I have already submitted an application for the summer seminar at the naval academy. I know that my PSAT score is really low (1150 out of 1520 ) and I used those scores for the application. First, am I at all competitive in that area to the point where I can get an application letter to start the process? Also, I am taking the real SAT in March, and am predicting a better score, so will they see that too or will they only be able to see the PSAT scores?
     
  8. falconchic88

    falconchic88 5-Year Member

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    Have your scores sent to them and they will see them, and will update your file with them.
     
  9. QWE123

    QWE123 Member

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    My son went to USNA NASS and USMA SLE with low Pre Sat scores (lower than your son's), make sure you are strong in other areas like leadership, athletics, etc.
     
  10. time2

    time2 10-Year Member

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    If you have a specific question not already answered here, better to post it in the regular forum area. These 'stickies' are intended as reference material on information that would apply to many applicants.
     
  11. MGK

    MGK Member

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    Greetings all! I have a question about NAPS. I understand it is for those who need a little academic help before entering the USNA. What about for those students who are good students but may be a few days too young for admission to the Naval Academy? If you are a good student, great SAT score, finished HS in 3 years...what will NAPS have to offer? My student has been offered some great opportunities at schools like American University, Union College, Rhodes. . . for some very selective programs. Is there any chance of her being admitted to the Academy once others have made their declarations? Is there someone we should talk to? She really wants the Naval Academy, but feels like she is going to waste a year going through the NAPS program. Any info is appreciated. Thank you.
     
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 10-Year Member

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    Age upon entry at a SA is a legal/statutory requirement and thus is NOT waiverable. The ONLY thing USNA can offer is NAPS. Will it be valuable to your DD academically? Can't say. It will put her a leg up in terms of learning about the military -- how to fold clothes, how to march, ranks and other military stuff. It will provide another year of foundation in the core plebe courses. It will give her a year away from home, a year of living with a roommate, and a year of maturity.

    I've yet to meet anyone who attended NAPS/Foundation and considered it a "waste."

    Her other option is to attend a civilian college for a year and reapply. Or don't attend USNA period. The bottom line is that USNA is saying they really want her but, given her age, the only option is to send her to NAPS for a year so that she meets the age requirement.

    As an aside, unless your DD is the most mature 16-yr-old out there, she will definitely benefit from another year before she attends USNA. My mother entered college (not a SA, of course) at age 16 b/c she'd skipped a year of h.s. and said it was a terrible experinece. She said there was a HUGE difference b/t a 16-yr-old (almost 17) and an 18-yr-old in terms of maturity and other intangibles. Later, she became a teacher and firmly echoed those comments -- and refused to allow me to skip a grade b/c she didn't want me to repeat what she considered to be a mistake.
     
    CrewDad likes this.
  13. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    Truthfully, If DD is an academic overachiever, I don't think a year a NAPS will challenge her academically...however, a year at NAPS will give DD a headstart at USNA, and will perhaps open up opportunities at USNA. For example, validating Calculus and a Science Course (don't recall whether it was Chem or Physics) might free the schedule First Class year for some type of outside study. Also, that added year of military training and maturity will be invaluable. Finally, going to NAPS is essentially a sure bet for Admission next year , while attending another college would put DD back into the competitive admissions process...

    Bottom line, if DD wants to go to USNA and be a Naval Officer, go to NAPS ! She will never regret it.