USNA-Summer Seminar Application- 1/2019 Question

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Dawnbs03

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Jan 4, 2019
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Hello-- (sorry for the length of this post) ***PLEASE HELP SERVICE MEN AND WOMAN***

I have a question I hope a few USNA Alumni (who attended)--OR USNA-Professors/Instructors could help with. My husband was a USNA- Alumni-90' but he never attended the Summer Seminar offered for Juniors in high school not sure it was around back then.. LOL :) so he is unsure of the answer. Our son- is interested in USNA for college. He is eager to attend Summer Seminar (Summer Seminar application--Opened toady 1/3/19 at 9:00am) Everything on the USNA website states it is very competitive to attend. There are only (3--1 week sessions) and the application is part of the USNA Application for college so attending help you in getting your appointment is my understanding.
Our son is currently a junior in high school and at present his GPA is 3.5 as of the end of his sophomore year. (he was limited on the # of AP classes he could attend as a Fresh/Sophomores) Also he took one college course his freshman year and received a C and it brought his GPA down. (shaking my head) :( This year he has taken 4 AP classes and has A's in 3 of the 4, 1 B--in AP Physics) his GPA is projected by his counselor around 4.0-4.2 weighted by the end of January.
At present without his junior grades (not posted yet, but completed)-- He is NOT in the top 20% for class ranking. (He is currently sitting at 24%). However at the end of January 25th it should move up to 19% for his class ranking and a better GPA as well.

All that being said he appears to meet ALL the other requirements for the USNA Summer Seminar Application (accept the class rank)

*Athlete-- 4 year letterman in track & Captain of the team (Soph & Junior year thus far) 6'5/ 170lbs
* Head of the Math Club--competes in Math competitions
* DECA Club and winner of awards
* Volunteer at the VA Hospital
* Camp Counselor- Track camp (2 yrs)
*SAT 1400 and ACT 30
*Boy Scout and in process of completing his Eagle project
*Legacy kid of USNA- Football player

My question is this--- The Summer Seminar Application just opened today, and it states it is very competitive, and there is limited sessions over the summer. My son meets all the guidelines to attend accept the Class Rank requirement of 20% Should we go ahead and apply and make a note on his application where it has a place to explain (no official transcripts are required at this point) OR should we wait until we get the grades at the end of January and then submit the application that is a better picture of his grades and rank?
Since there is limited space do we run the risk of all sessions being full before we get the grades back. Is the Seminar that competitive? Will all the spots fill up before the end of January?
Since there is no deadline to apply and acceptances are offered in April this makes me think they fill the spots first come first serve. Is it possible for all spots to be full?
Does anyone know? We don't want to give him the wrong advice-- I am afraid to call and ask on the phone/ email and it getting linked to his USNA College application long term. I am afraid if we wait until the end of January for the grades there might not be any spots left. If the program is as competitive as the application states per the USNA website.

Any information you can provide is greatly appreciated...
 
Dawnbs03 said:
Hello-- (sorry for the length of this post) ***PLEASE HELP SERVICE MEN AND WOMAN***

I have a question I hope a few USNA Alumni (who attended)--OR USNA-Professors/Instructors could help with. My husband was a USNA- Alumni-90' but he never attended the Summer Seminar offered for Juniors in high school not sure it was around back then.. LOL :) so he is unsure of the answer. Our son- is interested in USNA for college. He is eager to attend Summer Seminar (Summer Seminar application--Opened toady 1/3/19 at 9:00am) Everything on the USNA website states it is very competitive to attend. There are only (3--1 week sessions) and the application is part of the USNA Application for college so attending help you in getting your appointment is my understanding.
Our son is currently a junior in high school and at present his GPA is 3.5 as of the end of his sophomore year. (he was limited on the # of AP classes he could attend as a Fresh/Sophomores) Also he took one college course his freshman year and received a C and it brought his GPA down. (shaking my head) :( This year he has taken 4 AP classes and has A's in 3 of the 4, 1 B--in AP Physics) his GPA is projected by his counselor around 4.0-4.2 weighted by the end of January.
At present without his junior grades (not posted yet, but completed)-- He is NOT in the top 20% for class ranking. (He is currently sitting at 24%). However at the end of January 25th it should move up to 19% for his class ranking and a better GPA as well.

All that being said he appears to meet ALL the other requirements for the USNA Summer Seminar Application (accept the class rank)

*Athlete-- 4 year letterman in track & Captain of the team (Soph & Junior year thus far) 6'5/ 170lbs
* Head of the Math Club--competes in Math competitions
* DECA Club and winner of awards
* Volunteer at the VA Hospital
* Camp Counselor- Track camp (2 yrs)
*SAT 1400 and ACT 30
*Boy Scout and in process of completing his Eagle project
*Legacy kid of USNA- Football player

My question is this--- The Summer Seminar Application just opened today, and it states it is very competitive, and there is limited sessions over the summer. My son meets all the guidelines to attend accept the Class Rank requirement of 20% Should we go ahead and apply and make a note on his application where it has a place to explain (no official transcripts are required at this point) OR should we wait until we get the grades at the end of January and then submit the application that is a better picture of his grades and rank?
Since there is limited space do we run the risk of all sessions being full before we get the grades back. Is the Seminar that competitive? Will all the spots fill up before the end of January?
Since there is no deadline to apply and acceptances are offered in April this makes me think they fill the spots first come first serve. Is it possible for all spots to be full?
Does anyone know? We don't want to give him the wrong advice-- I am afraid to call and ask on the phone/ email and it getting linked to his USNA College application long term. I am afraid if we wait until the end of January for the grades there might not be any spots left. If the program is as competitive as the application states per the USNA website.

Any information you can provide is greatly appreciated...
Click to expand...

Hello,
I am not a USNA grad or professor, but I have done much research and know some stuff about the points that you have mentioned.

Firstly, contacting admissions to ask those sort of questions would never hurt admissions chances or be linked to a candidate profile, unless maybe you annoy or be rude to an actual admissions officer. You can always contact admissions or email the local Blue and Gold Officer.

Summer Seminar is very competitive, but I don't believe it is as competitive as it seems you feel it is based on your writing above. Technically it is possible for all the slots to be full really really quickly, but acceptance is not that competitive. Acceptances that go out early are usually for candidates with extremely outstanding records so not many slots are filled up quickly. Most acceptances for Summer Seminar go out as a batch many months later.

Regarding class rank, out of all the research I have done, I do not believe that there is a 20% requirement. (Unless I missed it somewhere--please let me know the source for the information for a 20% requirement). Depending on when grades are finalized in January. If they come out soon after school restarts after winter break, it's probably fine to wait until then. But if grades aren't done until late, late January, and if you also feel it is important to you to submit the application early, it may be better to calculate a 20% rank and write the number as an estimate--it's no biggie.
 
Hey thanks a lot. I do appreciate your feedback.. It does state the 20% thing unfortunately on the application requirements. I was wondering
about writing it in since it does not ask for transcripts but would not dare want to look like he was dishonest since we don't have the grades yet (and they wont be here until the end of January 25th)..
 
NASS selections are made on many different factors -- not all of them necessarily just on scholastic merit -- so it is hard for anyone here to say whether going from a class rank of 24% to 19% will make any significant difference. However, most NASS selections probably won't start rolling out for a couple of weeks, so submitting towards the end of January isn't going to necessarily mean all the "spots" are taken up. Furthermore, no one here will know what caused your son to be accepted or not (i.e. delay in submitting application or other NASS admission factors). Only ~30% of each incoming USNA class attended NASS, so for about every 3 candidates that are appointed (admitted), 2 weren't accepted or didn't attend NASS. Bottom line, NOT being selected or attending NASS does NOT have direct implications on admission chances. I will emphasize, again, the factors used for selecting candidates to NASS ARE NOT the same factors being looked at by admissions during the actual application process. If not selected or unable to attend NASS, there is also a candidate visit weekend (CVW) that candidates can attend -- this would be requested through your assigned Blue and Gold Officer (if your son does not know who this is, ask the H.S. guidance counselors or use this link to reach out to the BGO area coordinator and they can point your son to the right person, https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/BGO.php).

It can never hurt to call admissions to get their official advice -- they would be the ones who would have a better idea if going from 24% to 19% will really make a difference -- my educated guess is it really won't. However, the individual calling admissions should be your son. From this point forward, I STRONGLY STRONGLY recommend that your son do all of the leg work and mom/dad help out where it is absolutely necessary (i.e. when filling out medical history information, providing transportation, reviewing personal statements, etc.). At the end of the day, it is your son's decision for wanting to attend USNA and if he has that strong desire to attend/serve, he will see to it that the applications (USNA/nomination) get completed.

Best of luck!
 
I applied to both SLE and NASS last year the day the applications opened. Selections are not made on a first come first serve basis, however, getting the application done early can show initiative. I was accepted for NASS but denied from SLE (keep in mind I applied to both the day the applications were released). Both have very limited slots and are competitive, but waiting until your son has higher credentials should not have serious repercussions when decisions are rolled out. A kid in my squad commented that he did not know about NASS until a week before the application closed and he was still accepted. I am not sure exactly when the deadline was last year but it seemed to have no effect on his admission to NASS. I heard back from both SLE and NASS very early in April.

I do not believe waiting to apply would have significant impact on your application, but echoing what has been said before, USNA factors much more than academics into decisions. Nobody on the forums can figure out exactly what formula they use.

Best of luck to your son in the application process!
 
I agree 100% with JJGrizwald above. My DD applied to USNA SS, USMA SLE, USCG AIM & USAFA SS. She was accepted at 3 of the 4. She turned in her applications on the date the respective programs opened. Her school does not rank the students which caused a little bit of work on the respective applications. So she could not enter a top 20% on the application, but was still accepted (at all but USMA SLE). I encourage your DS to apply early and often :-)! My DD does not regret attending any of the 3 and made great friends/connections that have helped her through the long application process. Wishing you the best of luck and am a huge fan of this forum. I hope you will find it as helpful as we have!
 
My advice is to relax no need to worry so much about summer seminar the actual application will be a nightmare if you worry over every detail
 
Also, please remember the assessment criteria used for summer seminar is different than the WCS used for admissions. Summer seminar is, in part, an admissions marking tool and serves to expose potential candidates to the academy in hopes that it will help broaden the application base.

There are many threads on this, but summer seminar selection should not be used as a indicator if an applicant will eventually receive an appointment to the academy. The USAFA posted this and I would think it would also apply to similar events at the USMA and USNA:

Please keep in mind that selection to attend Summer Seminar is NOT in any way a prerequisite for admission to the Academy. Summer Seminar is NOT a pre-screening or pre-selection program. All students applying for Summer Seminar are encouraged to apply for appointment to the Academy, regardless of selection for Summer Seminar. There is no correlation between selection for Summer Seminar and appointment to the Academy. If you are not selected for Summer Seminar, it should not be interpreted as a reflection on your qualifications or ability to successfully pursue an appointment to the United States Air Force Academy.​
 
Good info from BGO08. There is a lot of discussion on these Forums about Summer Programs, but the two big takeaways are 1) Acceptance to NASS is not a reflection of competitiveness for admission, and 2) NASS is not a pre-screen. It is first and foremost a marketing program to attract candidates who might be interested, but want to learn more.

BGO's receive very little official guidance from Admissions about what they are looking for in NASS applications, but a couple (unofficial) observations:

1) Candidate gets to make a short personal statement ... emphasize the positive, and perhaps make the statement that expect grades to climb to top 20%,

2) I would avoid making statements about being a legacy and/or always wanting to attend USNA. First , as many disappointed Candidates and Parents will attest, being a legacy doesn't carry much weight with Admissions. Further, since the purpose is promoting awareness, the kid that grew up dreaming Blue & Gold isn't really the target audience.

3) NASS application is "competitive" , but mostly in the sense that alot of people apply and there are limited spaces. Acceptance is not based strictly on merit, but targeting desired demographics. Many apply from Northern Virginia and Maryland --largely because of proximity and awareness, and not all will get in. I would expect far fewer applicants, and far higher acceptance rates, from my largely rural Midwestern state.

PS - No, NASS wasn't around when Dad applied...not sure when it started, but many back in that era (myself included) applied and accepted appointments to USNA sight unseen. (My first visit to USNA was a weekend visit when I was already in NAPS).
 
NASS opens the preliminary application. Acceptance, attendance or rejection has no bearing on whether your DS will eventually receive an appointment. Many threads have repeated this.

NASS will shine a light on whether your DS would like the USNA experience & give him a chance to speak with some recovering plebes.

My daughter loved NASS and it solidified her decision to pursue USNA.
She has received her nomination & now we wait for hopefully an appointment. Her friends she met at NASS have been a great support system.
 
While there are many benefits of STEM and NASS, there is one major drawback. Some candidates who aren't accepted to one or both become discouraged, believe they have no chance to attend USNA, and stop trying. I think, for some of these exceptional candidates, it's the first time in their lives that they've been told "no." I had it happen to a friend of the family -- didn't get into STEM last year and now wants nothing to do with NASS or a SA -- this despite my comments in line with those above.

Go into the process understanding that STEM and NASS are not merit competitions. If you live in an area or attend a school where USNA is well known, your chances for NASS aren't as good as someone equally -- or even lesser -- qualified who comes from an area/school that is under-represented. STEM similarly isn't purely merit-based.

One suggestion -- apply to programs at USMA and USAFA. I know of quite a few folks who were accepted to one school's STEM/summer program but turned down at others. The experiences are generally similar (especially for STEM).

Another suggestion -- if you can attend Session 1, put that down as your first choice. In many areas of the country, h.s. is still in session in early/mid June and thus students are only able to attend Session #2 or #3. Thus, your odds may improve a slight bit if you can do Session 1.
 
usna1985 said:
Another suggestion -- if you can attend Session 1, put that down as your first choice. In many areas of the country, h.s. is still in session in early/mid June and thus students are only able to attend Session #2 or #3. Thus, your odds may improve a slight bit if you can do Session 1.
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Most NJ schools go until the third or fourth week of September so I give the same advice as I give to the Boy's State nominees - that is to tell your school EARLY so that they can administer exams (usually what is going on at that point) early. NJ Boy's State always starts on Father's Day and always conflicts with most public schools in the state. I've had many candidates as well as my own son do BOTH NASS and Boys State and the schools accommodated them without an issue.
 
Since the OP is new to this forum, I would suggest reviewing: 1) the official USNA website about NASS & applying, 2) the various 'stickies' at the top of this forum and 3) older threads which often cover the same topics you are asking about. I would not suggest calling admissions asking about what your son/daughter's 'chances' for either NASS or admissions. I sure they get a LOT of those types of questions and most likely aren't going to be able to answer it no matter how you word the question.

One of the things you learn about applying to any of the Service Academies is that friends/neighbors/relatives or the even the postman will offer all sorts of well-intentioned advice even when they have NO idea what they are talking about. NASS is NOT a step in the application process and is more of an effort to attract those who might not have otherwise considered USNA, as others mention above. Some attend NASS and immediately decide this is not for them and move on to consider other colleges.
 
Hey-
I applied to summer seminar in Jan 2017 and had a similar situation. Top 21% and pretty low test scores. I just decided to give it a whirl and send in my application regardless of those things and got accepted. It’s important, but it’s also just a summer camp at the end of the day so they don’t look at your grades the same way they do for the actual application. It is preliminary, but they know most will improve after the NASS application is sent in. I acknowledged my “low” class rank and just didn’t put test scores down. Good luck.
 
Summer seminar decisions are made really strangely. I got in with a pretty lackluster class rank (barely top 50%), but my buddy who is #4 in my class (at a really good high school in a pretty competitive state) got denied. I think my essay + ECs + test scores helped a ton tho.

I wouldn't worry too much about the summer seminar applications. It's just a summer camp. A lot of fun, but it's just a camp.

Lord willing that I get into the academy, I know that the experience of being a plebe will be very different.
 
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