Weighing options of going SMP

[MrNiceGuy347]

I don’t know if I will have been awarded any scholarship for the last board until probably mid April. If I was to be awarded a 3 year could I still do SMP and just do the split option or can I take a semester off and still get that 3 year. Also what would be the benifits of doing SMP vs just rotc. And if I was awarded a 3 year and because I would then have completed basic could I just not enroll until sophomore year because it would just be a review of basic training? And would I still be able to use the scholarship sophomore year if I didn’t enroll freshman year ?

Also I turn 18 in a few weeks is there anyway I can get a recruiter to reserve a MOS and ship date for me until I find out about the scholarship and before ever signing anything and going to MEPS? I’ve already taken the ASVAB all I’d have to do is go to MEPS. Thanks.

 

[Jcleppe]

If I was to be awarded a 3 year could I still do SMP and just do the split option or can I take a semester off and still get that 3 year.

You can't do both.

If you are awarded a 3 year scholarship and then decide to do SMP you will lose that scholarship. There are scholarships for SMP like the GRFD but they are different then the scholarship you are competing for now, and the scholarships such as the GRFD do not allow you to commission active duty.

If you start the enlistment process now then you are awarded a 3 year I believe you can request to be released from the Reserves/NG so you could accept the scholarship. Others will have better information on this.

Are you looking at SMP as a way to help pay for college or are there other reasons?

 

[MrNiceGuy347]

“Are you looking at SMP as a way to help pay for college or are there other reasons?”

I don’t need the money for college just the experience

 

[AROTC-dad]

If you don't need the money, I would not recommend going SMP.

If your goal is to rank as high as possible during your four years of AROTC, you should focus on grades, fitness, and extracurriculars in that order of priority. SMP can be disruptive to your academics. Getting good grades and doing well in your battalion is the best way to rank high and thus earn the best shot at active duty and the branch of your choice.

 

[Jcleppe]

I don’t need the money for college just the experience

Read through many of the threads on this forum that talk about the SMP option, there is a lot of information there both pro and con.

 

[kinnem]

If you are awarded a 3 year by the final board you must enroll in your college this fall. Failure to do so would result in the loss of the scholarship. Attending Basic is not a replacement for the first year of ROTC. Attending Basic has little to nothing to do with ROTC. Basic builds soldiers. ROTC builds leaders. +1 to AROTC-dad and Jcleppe.

 

[MrNiceGuy347]

If you are awarded a 3 year by the final board you must enroll in your college this fall. Failure to do so would result in the loss of the scholarship. Attending Basic is not a replacement for the first year of ROTC. Attending Basic has little to nothing to do with ROTC. Basic builds soldiers. ROTC builds leaders. +1 to AROTC-dad and Jcleppe.

If I did split option I wouldn’t miss any schooling meaning I could enroll this fall and finish AIT next summer and the rotc program I’m going to doesn’t issue anyone any gear until at least sophomore year and half of the cadets are SMP at that battalion so why wouldn’t I enlist and be issued everything and be in the top half of that class.?

 

[kinnem]

Because you don't yet understand all the ins and outs of SMP. Talk to the ROO at your intended battalion prior to taking this step. They will give you sound advice tailored to you. It's not a one size fits all proposition.

 

[AROTC-dad]

Look, Mr. Nice Guy.

The recruiters are certainly going to be pushing you hard to sign on the dotted line for SMP. You have gotten solid advice above from some very experienced members to speak to your ROO before doing this. It is your option to ignore the recommendation.

Signing up for SMP just for the gear makes no sense. If you hustle and work hard, you might even get your scholarship extended a half year and you will have your gear by the end of the first semester (this happened to my DS).

 

[Tbpxece]

There must be an email from recruiters circulating around regarding how to push SMP on ROTC cadets that do not need the school money. It is the same argument each time. And a fundamental misunderstanding of where "enlisted experience" actually comes from.

Take it from someone who started enlisted and is now commissioned:

1. Basic is nothing more than a crappy, miserable version of scout camp that prepares you for entry into the Armed Forces. It introduces fundamental military and combat skills, teaches you to shut up and color, and prepares you for your occupational training (AIT/Tech School, etc)
   
2. Basic does not make you an experienced or capable soldier/airman/marine/sailor. It makes you a Basic Training Graduate.
3. AIT/Tech School/A School/whatever-the-USMC-calls-it introduces you to the occupational job you will be performing.
4. AIT/Tech School/etc. does not make you experienced or qualified in your enlisted occupation. It brings you to the "apprentice" level. Years of additional on-the-job and formal training are required to become competent.
5. Simply drilling one weekend a month, and attending a 2-3 week annual training stint (about the most you will be able to do as a college student) does not make you competent, and does not give you real enlisted experience. You will get a small taste of it, that is it. It's kind of like joining a club, especially on drill weekends.
6. If you want real enlisted experience while in the Guard/Reserves, you will have to (a) deploy several times, (b) go full time as a technician, or (c) pull as many active days as you can (which you won't be able to do until you are competent in your job, see point 4 above)

If you really must have enlisted experience, then good for you (it really does make you a more well-rounded officer)! Do it the right way (and the only way the really counts). Either:

(a) Enlist in the Active Duty component and do a minimum of 3 years prior to separating and returning to school (4-6 is preferable, as non-NCO enlisted experience is not very useful for a CGO)

-or-

(b) Enlist in the Reserve Component (Guard or Reserves), place college in second-fiddle, and do 4-6 years of as much deployments, orders, and man days as your unit provides.

SMP is designed for active Guard and Reserve soldiers-- not for HS kids.

 

[Tbpxece]

If I did split option I wouldn’t miss any schooling meaning I could enroll this fall and finish AIT next summer and the rotc program I’m going to doesn’t issue anyone any gear until at least sophomore year and half of the cadets are SMP at that battalion so why wouldn’t I enlist and be issued everything and be in the top half of that class.?

Also, that is a really long sentence with double punctuation on the end. It makes it very hard to read.

 

[Jcleppe]

If I did split option I wouldn’t miss any schooling meaning I could enroll this fall and finish AIT next summer and the rotc program I’m going to doesn’t issue anyone any gear until at least sophomore year and half of the cadets are SMP at that battalion so why wouldn’t I enlist and be issued everything and be in the top half of that class.?

Unless you need the extra benefits you would get by going to AIT, there really isn't a reason to go. The MOS you would get doesn't matter because once you contract and become SMP you will no longer have that MOS, you will switch to 09R and will either shadow a LT if you get a good unit or do lots of paper work and sit around if you don't get a good unit.

Don't think that going the SMP route you're talking about will somehow magically put you in the top half of the class, it doesn't work that way. If you go this SMP route you still won't contact with AROTC until, at the soonest, the beginning of your sophomore year, they have until the end of the sophomore year to contract you.

Those cadets that do not have a scholarship the start of their freshman year, work hard in ROTC and academically may find that they are offered a 3.5 or 3 year battalion scholarship. These cadets will contract before you because they want to lock these cadets into the program. They do not need to lock you in, you have already enlisted and they can wait until the last minute to contract you.

If you needed the money and assistance that you can get through SMP then it can make sense to take on the risks that can come with SMP.

Best advice would be to wait until the next board results, go ahead and do your research and have things lined up for your plan B but just make sure you discuss all this with a ROO, not an enlistment recruiter.

 

[QA1517]

If you are awarded a 3 year by the final board you must enroll in your college this fall. Failure to do so would result in the loss of the scholarship. Attending Basic is not a replacement for the first year of ROTC. Attending Basic has little to nothing to do with ROTC. Basic builds soldiers. ROTC builds leaders. +1 to AROTC-dad and Jcleppe.

If I did split option I wouldn’t miss any schooling meaning I could enroll this fall and finish AIT next summer and the rotc program I’m going to doesn’t issue anyone any gear until at least sophomore year and half of the cadets are SMP at that battalion so why wouldn’t I enlist and be issued everything and be in the top half of that class.?

So one of the main reasons it appears is so you will have your gear.
Everything except your uniform will stay at your unit. DS did SMP and he still had to look like the other cadets at school, had to use the same old rucks as they did. So if your unit has new uniforms and your school still has the old you might not be able to wear your SMP issued uniform.

 

[Tbpxece]

Best advice would be to …. make sure you discuss all this with a ROO, not an enlistment recruiter.

Some ARNG recruiters (or the recruiting supervisors) are warrant officers. They should be a little more attuned to the realities of SMP. The handful of WO recruiters I've spoken with in the past never indicated they would suggest that a full-time college-bound high school graduate go SMP just to get "enlistment experience". It has always been a tool designed more for ARNG and USAR soldiers to commission outside of OCS or WOCS, and to compete for an AD slot.

The only high schoolers that should ever be looking at SMP are those that are intending to enlist in the reserve component for a few years, do a little bit of part time college on the side for the first couple of years around deployments and man-days, and then around the 30-40 credit hour mark (effectively in sophomore standing), buckle down, attend college full time and get out of having to compete for a full ride scholarship in AROTC.

Shoehorning this program to apply to full-time freshmen is disingenuous and silly. It makes college harder and robs them of any actual enlisted experience (and potentially a shot at an AD commission).

Recruiters aren't bad people, and they are almost always honest. They are also more than willing to let you paint yourself into a corner if it helps them meet their quota, leaving the enlistee with the assurance they can "figure it out on the back end."

My recruiter was a solid guy. He also told me AF tech school would be "like college", and that I would have plenty of time to get classes done. Both statements were technically true if that college were an SMU, and I was some mental giant that was able to do online classes on the side (and under the radar) at Tech School. He told me the facts I wanted to hear, and withheld those that I did not (unless I specifically asked)-- like a lot of recruiters seem to do.

This question is coming up a lot, and the argument is the same each time (wanting to do SMP, don't need college money, don't understand the impact of Basic, AIT, deployments, and drill/AT on AROTC involvement, wanting to get "enlisted experience). Is there any chance for a sticky?

 

[MrNiceGuy347]

Best advice would be to …. make sure you discuss all this with a ROO, not an enlistment recruiter.

Some ARNG recruiters (or the recruiting supervisors) are warrant officers. They should be a little more attuned to the realities of SMP. The handful of WO recruiters I've spoken with in the past never indicated they would suggest that a full-time college-bound high school graduate go SMP just to get "enlistment experience". It has always been a tool designed more for ARNG and USAR soldiers to commission outside of OCS or WOCS, and to compete for an AD slot.

The only high schoolers that should ever be looking at SMP are those that are intending to enlist in the reserve component for a few years, do a little bit of part time college on the side for the first couple of years around deployments and man-days, and then around the 30-40 credit hour mark (effectively in sophomore standing), buckle down, attend college full time and get out of having to compete for a full ride scholarship in AROTC.

Shoehorning this program to apply to full-time freshmen is disingenuous and silly. It makes college harder and robs them of any actual enlisted experience (and potentially a shot at an AD commission).

Recruiters aren't bad people, and they are almost always honest. They are also more than willing to let you paint yourself into a corner if it helps them meet their quota, leaving the enlistee with the assurance they can "figure it out on the back end."

My recruiter was a solid guy. He also told me AF tech school would be "like college", and that I would have plenty of time to get classes done. Both statements were technically true if that college were an SMU, and I was some mental giant that was able to do online classes on the side (and under the radar) at Tech School. He told me the facts I wanted to hear, and withheld those that I did not (unless I specifically asked)-- like a lot of recruiters seem to do.

This question is coming up a lot, and the argument is the same each time (wanting to do SMP, don't need college money, don't understand the impact of Basic, AIT, deployments, and drill/AT on AROTC involvement, wanting to get "enlisted experience). Is there any chance for a sticky?

I feel as if I’d be going in the right way by enlisting and attending basic and AIT. Even if ROTC doesn’t workout I’d still be in the army part time. And if I was to commission I’d more then likely choose the reserve route due to goals in and after college in my civilian life. I feel like you would be a better officer by sharing the same experiences and knowing the ins and outs of both the enlisted reserve component and the officer reserve component of the Army. Also why would I need to do college part time freshman year if both AIT and basic were to be in the summer. I get it if a deployment comes up but other then that it would really just be a weekend a month and two weeks in the summer correct?

 

[Tbpxece]

I feel as if I’d be going in the right way by enlisting and attending basic and AIT.

Ok. If you "feel" that way, I can't make you feel another way. Feel away. The facts state otherwise.

And if I was to commission I’d more then likely choose the reserve route due to goals in and after college in my civilian life.

Then why go SMP? Just enlist, attend school using state tuition assistance, and then apply for OCS. Way easier, and way faster. SMP means you may go AD, you may go RC.

I feel like you would be a better officer by sharing the same experiences and knowing the ins and outs of both the enlisted reserve component and the officer reserve component of the Army.

Again, your feelings have nothing to do with it. The facts are you would know nothing of the "ins and outs" of the enlisted reserve component. Do you understand that? You will not have any enlisted experience by just going through Basic and AIT. Your drill weekends will be, as @Jcleppe indicated, full of paperwork and following an Lt around. The other enlisted will not talk to you, will not invest any time in you because they know you won't be around more than a couple of years (which is a couple of months in reserve time).

Also why would I need to do college part time freshman year if both AIT and basic were to be in the summer. I get it if a deployment comes up but other then that it would really just be a weekend a month and two weeks in the summer correct?

Did you read what I wrote, man? It doesn't look like you did. Reread my first post in this thread, especially my recommendations if you want actual enlisted experience.

---------------
Mr Nice Guy, this is coming from someone who was enlisted , then got a college degree, and then commissioned. Like, exactly what you claim to want to do. I've been in a good while now and am trying to get you to see the facts. Facts do not change just because you "feel" a certain way about a certain thing.

If you want the enlisted experience, then keep it simple and go about it the normal way like every other enlisted solider--> Enlist, and then serve in an MOS for several years. Make E-5 to get the NCO experience. Then go finish your degree and get a commission.
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Lastly, almost no enlisted member out there would consider the path you are proposing as counting for any enlisted experience. If you try to trot that "prior-enlisted" line out as a young CGO, you will be laughed at (at best). If you go this route, understand that you will effectively be a non-prior service officer who for some crazy reason wanted to go to Basic and AIT, and then show up for drill once a month to do busy work.​

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[AROTC-dad]

In my opinion, the OP posted here purely for validation of his own foregone decision, choosing to ignore all credible advice that is contrary to his position.

I am moving on.

 

[Tbpxece]

In my opinion, the OP posted here purely for validation of his own foregone decision, choosing to ignore all credible advice that is contrary to his position.

I am moving on.

I hope that's not the case. That would be a shame and a bad start to a military career. It is critical to be open to feedback and correction in order to be successful as a servicemember. Moreso as a young CGO.

 

[MrNiceGuy347]

In my opinion, the OP posted here purely for validation of his own foregone decision, choosing to ignore all credible advice that is contrary to his position.

I am moving on.

I hope that's not the case. That would be a shame and a bad start to a military career. It is critical to be open to feedback and correction in order to be successful as a servicemember. Moreso as a young CGO.

That’s certainly not the case just confused and trying to understand from what I’ve been told prior. If I enlist and drill for a year or so before joining the SMP program then why wouldn’t that count as serving in the reserves as an enlisted member? And would years of service be higher because I enlisted through college and commission instead of just commissioning through ROTC? Are their truly no benifits to enlisting and doing ROTC at the same time?

 

[Jcleppe]

That’s certainly not the case just confused and trying to understand from what I’ve been told prior. If I enlist and drill for a year or so before joining the SMP program then why wouldn’t that count as serving in the reserves as an enlisted member? And would years of service be higher because I enlisted through college and commission instead of just commissioning through ROTC? Are their truly no benefits to enlisting and doing ROTC at the same time?

I really hope you are paying better attention when you're talking to the recruiters.

It doesn't count much because for the first year you will not have a MOS, you will just be the kid that went to BCT and is going to college. By the time you do get your MOS it will have no meaning because you will be contracting with ROTC and will lose your MOS and be switched to a 09R. At that point whatever you do won't have much if any to do with the "Enlisted experience".

SMP has it's place, many will take the Minute Man Scholarship or the GRFD and stay in the Reserves/Guard when they commission. The financial benefits can help cadets that can't otherwise pay for school. SMP if you get enough days per year can give you a boost in your pay when you commission.

Just going to BCT and AIT doesn't make you prior enlisted in anyone's mind, and if you bring it up all the time at your battalion you will quickly become the jerk.