What are my chances of getting in?

[nighthawk#1]

Hello everybody,

This is my first time posting on this forum, and I would like some feedback since I am applying to the Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard Academies next year. I am currently a senior in high school; however, my situation is a bit different from other people as I am doing what is technically called a 5th year of high school. During my senior year and my "5th year," I am taking all college courses at my local community college in order to earn an associates degree by the time I actually graduate. Despite the fact that the academies will not accept the credits I have completed, I am still eager to apply because it is my dream to become an officer in either the Air Force, Navy, or Coast Guard. If I do not get accepted to an academy, I plan on transferring my credits to a university and joining Air Force ROTC. My main question is how will the academies view my college courses vs. if I had taken AP classes at my high school (which I have not taken any).


As for high school, here are my statistics:
My unweighted GPA is a 3.97, and my unweighted class rank is 18 out of 285. I have taken 7 honors classes. My SAT super score is below average right now at a 1310; however, I am planning on retaking it several more times before I actually apply. I passed the CFA when I took it at the Naval Academy Summer Seminar, but I am also working on improving my scores right now.


For extracurriculars, I will have 3 varsity letters for tennis (sophomore-senior year). I have also done FIRST Robotics since I was in the 6th grade, and I was junior captain last year and senior captain this year. I co-founded a software engineering club in my junior year of high school, and we are currently working on building a website for a local non-profit tennis organization that is coming to my area that will allow low-income children to play the sport. I am also in Civil Air Patrol, and by the time I graduate, I will have been in it for 2 years and have earned the rank of at least C/2d Lt. I am currently my squadrons flight sergeant, and I am projected to be the cadet commander by the time I become C/CMSgt. I also serve on the civil air patrol cadet advisory council for my state which helps cadets in my state by listening to their needs. I am part of the NHS and, as of now, have 70 hours of community service.


I am looking for any feedback at all, but especially about my college courses vs. AP courses, as well as how I am doing with my extracurriculars. Thank you for reading my long message.

 

[A1Janitor]

Congrats! You look like a good candidate to me.

Make sure you do your homework. My son got his AS degree before he graduated high school. It was a dilemma. He had 84 or 87 credits that would have transferred to his second choice, which put him in as a Junior. When we looked at ROTC, there was a stumbling block with this - I forget what it was.

Had he not gone to USNA, he likely could have graduated in 1 to 2 years. Then he would have had to decide on law school or OTC.

Did you take the hardest classes in high school available?

Will you prepare for the SAT? My son took a course and got 200 points higher than his pretest.

Did you take the ACT? They superscore between tests.

 

[99Gold]

As homeschoolers, my two boys did not have easy access to AP classes, but did take DE classes. My USAFA cadet never took an AP classes. USAFA admissions said during an admissions brief last year that they see AP and DE classes the same. They are both college level work and demonstrate rigor. I am not sure how the other SAs view it as I’ve never heard anything definitive from them.

The academic departments do not view them the same. DE classes (which they define as college classes that are also on your high school transcript), are not eligible for validation purposes at USAFA. AP exams with high enough scores are. Now this is department dependent and you can bring your case to the department if you want to validate a class. My oldest was unsuccessful in getting any his USAFA classes validated with his DE classes. You already seem to understand that, but I just wanted to highlight the different processes.

 

[nighthawk#1]

Congrats! You look like a good candidate to me.

Make sure you do your homework. My son got his AS degree before he graduated high school. It was a dilemma. He had 84 or 87 credits that would have transferred to his second choice, which put him in as a Junior. When we looked at ROTC, there was a stumbling block with this - I forget what it was.

Had he not gone to USNA, he likely could have graduated in 1 to 2 years. Then he would have had to decide on law school or OTC.

Did you take the hardest classes in high school available?

Will you prepare for the SAT? My son took a course and got 200 points higher than his pretest.

Did you take the ACT? They superscore between tests.

Thank you so much for your reply! I am planning on taking an SAT prep course soon, but I do not know which one. Do you remember which prep course your son took? I have not taken the ACT. Should I take both tests? I am mainly focusing on the SAT. If you can remember what the stumbling block was for transfer students and ROTC, I would like to know as I have not looked into the ROTC programs at the universities yet.

 

[nighthawk#1]

As homeschoolers, my two boys did not have easy access to AP classes, but did take DE classes. My USAFA cadet never took an AP classes. USAFA admissions said during an admissions brief last year that they see AP and DE classes the same. They are both college level work and demonstrate rigor. I am not sure how the other SAs view it as I’ve never heard anything definitive from them.

The academic departments do not view them the same. DE classes (which they define as college classes that are also on your high school transcript), are not eligible for validation purposes at USAFA. AP exams with high enough scores are. Now this is department dependent and you can bring your case to the department if you want to validate a class. My oldest was unsuccessful in getting any his USAFA classes validated with his DE classes. You already seem to understand that, but I just wanted to highlight the different processes.

Thank you for sharing! If I get accepted, I will try and get my classes validated because there is not harm in trying, but now I know the chances are probably low.

 

[99Gold]

Thank you for sharing! If I get accepted, I will try and get my classes validated because there is not harm in trying, but now I know the chances are probably low.

There is no harm in trying and you should try. I’m just glad you have a realistic outlook. Don’t overlook @A1Janitor’s comments. Too many college credits can cause problems at a civilian university with ROTC, major selection, and class selection. Just something to consider.

 

[Ivy22]

Thank you so much for your reply! I am planning on taking an SAT prep course soon, but I do not know which one. Do you remember which prep course your son took? I have not taken the ACT. Should I take both tests? I am mainly focusing on the SAT. If you can remember what the stumbling block was for transfer students and ROTC, I would like to know as I have not looked into the ROTC programs at the universities yet.

Some students find the ACT to be easier for them, so they do better on it compared to the SAT. The ACT is more prevalent than the SAT in some areas of the country. Try it and see what you think, you may do better on it

The ACT noticeably has a Science section instead of an extra math section that the SAT has, some students prefer that. However, the math section on it can be more of a time crunch.
Back in the day, the SAT also had a whole section of random vocab words that were particularly difficult…

 

[DomerDad]

Nobody on this forum can accurately provide your admission odds. What is clear is that the Service Academies value:

1. Academic performance - (yours is very good).
2. Test Scores - you are below the 25th percentile for admitted students at USAFA.
   1. Retake the SAT.
   2. Take the ACT; you may perform much better.
3. Leadership - (you appear to have four leadership positions at the moment).
   1. I would do everything you can to earn a captain spot on your tennis team.
   2. Focus on your CAP promotions to earn your Billy Mitchell Award.
   3. Lean into your software engineering club and do some more cool things there.
4. Athletics - 3 Varsity letters is rock solid
   1. Focus on distance running this year
   2. Keep training for the CFA under real test conditions to improve your score

A little-known secret is that you can pay for and take the AP exams even if you didn't take the AP classes. USAFA accepts AP scores of 4 and 5 in conjunction with course placement exams you will take during BCT. AP scores need to be reported directly to USAFA from the College Board. After Jacks Valley, you will take several validation tests. Math, Chemistry, and foreign language validation tests are automatically administered...others will depend on AP scores (4&5) in other courses.

If you have mastered the material in your community college classes you may be able to receive 4+ AP scores. While validation credit won't reduce the 131-credit graduation requirement or allow early graduation, it offers valuable flexibility in your academic path. You can use this flexibility to pursue advanced coursework, potentially adding a minor or even a second major to your degree program.

 

[Heatherg21]

You can have too many college credits to qualify for an NROTC scholarship, as most NROTC scholarship programs require applicants to have completed no more than 30 college credit hours to be eligible for the "Four-Year National Scholarship," which is typically awarded to high school seniors applying directly to the program; having more than that would disqualify you from the main scholarship option.

For the OP, I don't know if you would still be eligible for a 3 year scholarship. As @A1Janitor stated, too many credits is a problem for a 4 year scholarship.

 

[Ivy22]

If you’re looking at the top civilian schools, a lot of them won’t accept AP scores for college credits towards a Bachelor’s degree from them. Same goes for dual enrollment/college courses taken in high school.

Come senior spring, if you’re headed to one of those schools, you can choose to not take the AP exams and get a refund on them

 

[ZoomieFrom1994]

Nobody on this forum can accurately provide your admission odds. What is clear is that the Service Academies value:

1. Academic performance - (yours is very good).
2. Test Scores - you are below the 25th percentile for admitted students at USAFA.
   1. Retake the SAT.
   2. Take the ACT; you may perform much better.
3. Leadership - (you appear to have four leadership positions at the moment).
   1. I would do everything you can to earn a captain spot on your tennis team.
   2. Focus on your CAP promotions to earn your Billy Mitchell Award.
   3. Lean into your software engineering club and do some more cool things there.
4. Athletics - 3 Varsity letters is rock solid
   1. Focus on distance running this year
   2. Keep training for the CFA under real test conditions to improve your score

A little-known secret is that you can pay for and take the AP exams even if you didn't take the AP classes. USAFA accepts AP scores of 4 and 5 in conjunction with course placement exams you will take during BCT. AP scores need to be reported directly to USAFA from the College Board. After Jacks Valley, you will take several validation tests. Math, Chemistry, and foreign language validation tests are automatically administered...others will depend on AP scores (4&5) in other courses.

If you have mastered the material in your community college classes you may be able to receive 4+ AP scores. While validation credit won't reduce the 131-credit graduation requirement or allow early graduation, it offers valuable flexibility in your academic path. You can use this flexibility to pursue advanced coursework, potentially adding a minor or even a second major to your degree program.

For us 94’ers, we took placement tests the first few days of BCT.

While, yes, it would be nice to test out of some classes, let me suggest an alternate route….

That is ASSuming that you get into USAFA.

That would be to intentionally sandbagg the placement tests.

This gets you into a less challenging class, and is more likely for you to get an easy A. Which of course factors into your cumulative GPA. In turn goes into the selection process for UPT or say non-rated AFSC’s if you are NOT pilot qualified (PQ).

 

[99Gold]

For us 94’ers, we took placement tests the first few days of BCT.

While, yes, it would be nice to test out of some classes, let me suggest an alternate route….

That is ASSuming that you get into USAFA.

That would be to intentionally sandbagg the placement tests.

This gets you into a less challenging class, and is more likely for you to get an easy A. Which of course factors into your cumulative GPA. In turn goes into the selection process for UPT or say non-rated AFSC’s if you are NOT pilot qualified (PQ).

Now, they take the math placement test at home before BCT and then chem and for. lang. during BCT.

It isn't a bad idea to retake chem or Calc 1 to have an easy first semester. My ds which he'd done the opposite and validated more courses. He added a Japanese minor and is trying to do a semester exchange in Japan which really adds to his workload. He could have validated one more semester of math, chem, and physics with no change to his GPA, but would have allowed some breathing room.

 

[99Gold]

For us 94’ers, we took placement tests the first few days of BCT.

While, yes, it would be nice to test out of some classes, let me suggest an alternate route….

That is ASSuming that you get into USAFA.

That would be to intentionally sandbagg the placement tests.

This gets you into a less challenging class, and is more likely for you to get an easy A. Which of course factors into your cumulative GPA. In turn goes into the selection process for UPT or say non-rated AFSC’s if you are NOT pilot qualified (PQ).

Now, they take the math placement test at home before BCT and then chem and for. lang. during BCT.

It isn't a bad idea to retake chem or Calc 1 to have an easy first semester. My ds which he'd done the opposite and validated more courses. He added a Japanese minor and is trying to do a semester exchange in Japan which really adds to his workload. He could have validated one more semester of math, chem, and physics with no change to his GPA, but would have allowed some breathing room.

 

[nighthawk#1]

You can have too many college credits to qualify for an NROTC scholarship, as most NROTC scholarship programs require applicants to have completed no more than 30 college credit hours to be eligible for the "Four-Year National Scholarship," which is typically awarded to high school seniors applying directly to the program; having more than that would disqualify you from the main scholarship option.

For the OP, I don't know if you would still be eligible for a 3 year scholarship. As @A1Janitor stated, too many credits is a problem for a 4 year scholarship.

I will have close to 60 credits by the time I graduate. Thank you for letting me know this, I will look into it more at the universities I am applying to. Would this mean that I would be unable to do ROTC at all?

 

[nighthawk#1]

If you’re looking at the top civilian schools, a lot of them won’t accept AP scores for college credits towards a Bachelor’s degree from them. Same goes for dual enrollment/college courses taken in high school.

Come senior spring, if you’re headed to one of those schools, you can choose to not take the AP exams and get a refund on them

Thank you for the information. The schools that I am applying to do accept my credits as a part of a transfer agreement. I have decided not to take any AP exams as they really will not do anything for me.

 

[nighthawk#1]

Now, they take the math placement test at home before BCT and then chem and for. lang. during BCT.

It isn't a bad idea to retake chem or Calc 1 to have an easy first semester. My ds which he'd done the opposite and validated more courses. He added a Japanese minor and is trying to do a semester exchange in Japan which really adds to his workload. He could have validated one more semester of math, chem, and physics with no change to his GPA, but would have allowed some breathing room.

Thank you for the information. Do I get to take the placement tests regardless if I have taken AP's or not? Honestly, if I do get accepted into a service academy I would be so thrilled that not getting my credits validated would not be a huge concern for me, but it is still nice to know my options.

 

[Heatherg21]

I will have close to 60 credits by the time I graduate. Thank you for letting me know this, I will look into it more at the universities I am applying to. Would this mean that I would be unable to do ROTC at all?

I have no idea. I would suggest reaching out to someone with the ROTC program at the university you want to attend.
Paging @GWU PNS (emeritus) for their expertise.

 

[A1Janitor]

I will have close to 60 credits by the time I graduate. Thank you for letting me know this, I will look into it more at the universities I am applying to. Would this mean that I would be unable to do ROTC at all?

I am sure someone can correct me.

My son had the option to do ROTC if he transferred the allowed amount. Effectively throwing away most of his credits.

I would rather take the credits and go to OTC. He could have graduated college before he turned 20.

 

[BBBRRRTT]

1310 sounds like a winner. Good at tennis and patient individual taking the 5 year extended tour what more could one ask for. Best of journeys with the next phase of life. Cheers!

 

[99Gold]

Thank you for the information. Do I get to take the placement tests regardless if I have taken AP's or not? Honestly, if I do get accepted into a service academy I would be so thrilled that not getting my credits validated would not be a huge concern for me, but it is still nice to know my options.

Everyone takes the math placement tests. You can opt to take the foreign language tests. In the past, you had to be invited to take the chem test. Not sure how that was determined or if that has changed.