The only time I was restricted was during the first couple of months of Plebe year (not the whole couple of months, mind you). I just couldn't stop being stuck for petty things that just added up. Once I got my head around things I was only placed on report one time for the remainder of my time there; and that was for gear adrift during one of JJ's wandering through the rooms during class (I think I left a pencil on my desk, or something like that). It wasn't that I was able to toe the line, it was that I got craftier about not getting caught. I was over the wall pretty regularly, yet no one was any the wiser. There IS a way to do it and I figured it out. . .
You just can't fix stupid
- Thread starter tallpoppy
- Start date
The only time I was restricted was during the first couple of months of Plebe year (not the whole couple of months, mind you). I just couldn't stop being stuck for petty things that just added up. Once I got my head around things I was only placed on report one time for the remainder of my time there; and that was for gear adrift during one of JJ's wandering through the rooms during class (I think I left a pencil on my desk, or something like that). It wasn't that I was able to toe the line, it was that I got craftier about not getting caught. I was over the wall pretty regularly, yet no one was any the wiser. There IS a way to do it and I figured it out. . .
tankercaptain
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Messages
- 509
Restriction should not keep a midshipman from going to sea, unless the administrative part, (ie investigation and mast have not been completed) Otherwise the individuals should be raising hell to go to sea. Anything keeping them from going to sea in the end does nothing but hurt them and their education. In reality it could set back their education and hurt the FUTURE job prospects.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 1,027
Where is the "hyperbole" - they cancelled the NYC Marathon, the region clearly is nowhere even close to back to normal, power as of 17:00 11/2/2012 is still out to many in Nassau County and per the LIP Power Outage Site needed restoration efforts to the area around the Academy are still not assigned crews:
http://www.lipower.org/stormcenter/outagemap.html
Long Island Railroad Service from Penn Station to Great Neck IS available but on a reduced schedule of hourly because of restoration activity - now that's actually pretty good. Returning Mids should take note trains are leaving Penn Station Eastbound at 14 minutes past the hour at least as of today (Friday) not sure what the plan is for Sunday schedule and service as if they have to work in AMTRAK the tunnels that would no doubt reduce that somewhat...
http://www.mta.info/gss/5/8
As for possibly impacting someone's ability to get the required sea time by delaying them shipping out to serve restriction, perhaps if there were real meaning to Class I, II, and III offenses one might make a case for doing so to serve Class I restriction but certainly not Class II or III - it's just a dumb thing to do, IMO. Both from and education and leadership development perspective, and even more so as to being sound stewards of the tax dollars being invested in these young men and women...
Again...people get a grip. What a bunch of great examples....if you have a Mid on restriction....so what? Not much you can or should try to do about it. Your Mid will be just fine and your Mid can handle it and your Mid will learn from it. And, so might a few others.
Been through all this stuff...it will pass, the world will continue to rotate on its axis and the sun will come up. On all that you can rest assured. KP Mids are made of stout stuff...
Been through all this stuff...it will pass, the world will continue to rotate on its axis and the sun will come up. On all that you can rest assured. KP Mids are made of stout stuff...
The new policy may be good for Navy, but we are Kings Point.We have certain company officers who have put midshipman on restriction without formal charges and after a week or so they are dropped. Under the new leave policy ,if this happened just prior to a regimental leave period the mid would not be allowed leave. What about travel plans and they cost of transportation home? It may be light years ago,but we were not granted liberty until Thanksgiving our plebe year ,so the thought of not being allowed liberty and restricted at an empty Zoo would have been very difficult to overcome
The Mids and Administration will deal with it..."what ifs" don't help. Best thing to communicate to you Mid is to stay off restriction. This "we are different" stuff seems to be just more of the old "I am special, I get different and special treatment as the rules don't apply to me" logic. DS found a way to deal with this very situation while a Mid. As he did, I have full faith and confidence in the current contingent of Mids to find the best and proper way to deal with whatever issues there may current be regarding the restriction policy. Perhaps, if there are legitimate grievances regarding the current policy and the way it is administered, the Mids having such a "challenge" might try going up (not over) the chain of command in a professional way and try dealing with it. I'm guessing they would be pretty darn good at it.
But, I seem to have more faith and confidence in our Mids than some others do around these parts. Usually have found that experience can be a very good teacher...rarely, if ever, had to step in and keep the natural consequences of the actions of our Mid from taking its course. Super way to learn...and to learn that not everyone gets a ribbon all the time for just showing up!
What was the title of this thread again?
I guess it depends on the Mid and how it is approached. My Mid never had any trouble doing so...although others reported to have such difficulty. I wonder what the difference was?
If you haven't gone through KP yourself, you really don't understand . It has less to do with the individual Mid or in years past Cadet but more to do with the different links in the different chains leading to the top. There are certain company officers who will hold up any requests they don't agree with and they are tabled until the situation has passed. Ask you Mid or other graduates.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
That's going to be the case in any chain of command you run into.
Eventually people either quit trying for find the path of least resistance.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 74
Kram1 - you've got a lot of gall telling parents who may have a DS/DD on restriction "so what"! One, you don't have a clue as to what they are on restriction for which really does make a difference. Two, I don't know where you live, but I live on the left coast and have spent quite a bit of money in last minute air fares due to not knowing when my mid will be able to travel coupled with the limited number of flights available because of the time they are released. Now you're trying to tell me "so what" because his shoes may not be shined or his bed may not be made after I've sunk several hundred dollars into a ticket? I don't think so and the Dant would receive a call from me so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. If he was on restriction for drinking, going over the wall or something similar, I would be the first one to tell him to "suck it up" and take your punishment like an adult.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 869
Okay, so: I realize USMMA is different from the other service academies as far as service requirement and probably outlook on restriction and discipline, but really?
Maybe I'll get stomped on by a grad for this, but are you seriously arguing that it would be unfair for your child to be put on restriction because it would be inconvenient for you, the parent? This completely blows my mind.
If I were the Dant, I would not be very impressed with that phone call.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 74
No. What I'm saying, or meant to say, is there are major infractions and minor infractions. Minor infractions keeps one on restriction while school is in progress, normal weekends, three day holidays, as in Veterans Day Weekend, etc, not when school is out or during normal breaks, e.g. semester breaks, Christmas Holidays and etc. If one is on restriction for a minor infraction and are released during a semester break, then liberty should expire for all restrictees at a specific time, for instance, the same time plebes are due back. As previously stated, all bets are off for a major infraction. The mid needs to take his punishment like an adult and the parents need to "suck it up", no matter what the cost. It's not that hard, basic common sense. I'd be will in to bet Capt Kennedy would take my call.
BR2011
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2006
- Messages
- 398
A bit of advice that I think any SA grad/current attendee would agree with: Do NOT call the school with a complaint. That is about the most embarrassing and humiliating thing you could do to your mid. The rules are the rules and it is up to your mid (who is officially an adult and no longer owned by you) to deal with. If my parents ever called the CGA leadership to ask why I wasn't able to go on leave I would have stopped coming home.
DelanoLover
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 10
If you can not leave school over holidays because of restriction its because you got a drinking offense, cheating offense, sexual misconduct offense or another major offense. Its not that hard to follow some rules. Ya it stinks but suck it up and follow the rules. The kids who can not leave because of restriction, they knew the rules and the consequences if they got caught. So stop all the complaining.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
Ok, I'll do it. SO WHAT?!
As a cadet I saw my share of restriction.... Class IIs and Class IIIs (no Class Is) at CGA.
I never missed a long holiday (because I'm not an idiot, and you have to be an idiot to do something like that).
You should count your lucky stars, because if their restriction covers this much time, they're likely on the edge of disenrollment. And when that happens, you, like 99% of other parents with disenrolled cadets/midshipmen, with have to make up some excuse to cope with it.
My advice, be happy with it only being restriction, and have your midshipman get his/her act together.
usna1985
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,854
The military DOES NOT CARE whether you have non-refundable airline tickets, vacation plans, etc. Many, may times, events in the world, events in your unit, etc. will "conspire against you" to wreck those plans.
Putting aside restriction, you could be serving on a ship and have leave approved. Some world leader does something stupid and your ship is told it needs to deploy to some hot spot in the world. Guess what? Your leave is now canceled.
It's really no different for something within your control, such as serving restriction for violating a rule. The military dictates the punishment -- when you joined the military you "agreed" to accept that.
Trip insurance is your friend. Some airlines now allow you to purchase "insurance" for non-refundable tickets when you book. It's pretty cheap and worth doing if offered. Otherwise, either spend the extra money to book refundable/changeable tix or take your chances.
Putting aside restriction, you could be serving on a ship and have leave approved. Some world leader does something stupid and your ship is told it needs to deploy to some hot spot in the world. Guess what? Your leave is now canceled.
It's really no different for something within your control, such as serving restriction for violating a rule. The military dictates the punishment -- when you joined the military you "agreed" to accept that.
Trip insurance is your friend. Some airlines now allow you to purchase "insurance" for non-refundable tickets when you book. It's pretty cheap and worth doing if offered. Otherwise, either spend the extra money to book refundable/changeable tix or take your chances.
Lynpar
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 715
I don't think trip insurance is as easy as it sounds. I looked into it a while back when trying to decide when to buy or not buy a ticket for DS wh is at KP. The wording of what it will cover doesn't quite make using for a KP student automatic. What I read and talked with an agent about was the line pertaining to supplying orders that have changed. I caution everyone to read the fine print before purchasing a ticket and the nominal fee for the insurance thinking it will fall under the categories the insurance stipulates. Also please note that the refund will be made to the person whose name is on the ticket no matter who paid for it.
On a side note, I bought trip insurance this spring for a visit I had planned for my mother and I to visit NY. Due to an illness in the family my mom ended up unable to make the trip. The company who handled the insurance claim happens to very close to KP on Long Island. It was a pleasure doing business with them and we filled out the necessary forms, complete with physicians signatures, etc. and the refund was handled quickly.
On a side note, I bought trip insurance this spring for a visit I had planned for my mother and I to visit NY. Due to an illness in the family my mom ended up unable to make the trip. The company who handled the insurance claim happens to very close to KP on Long Island. It was a pleasure doing business with them and we filled out the necessary forms, complete with physicians signatures, etc. and the refund was handled quickly.
Last edited: