'Best and brightest' article from hometownannapolis.com

[Pima]

Actually it is a proctor at the assigned site, at our kids hs it is hs teachers who get supplemental pay to proctor the test. College Board scores them. Administering and scoring is like appointing and charging for the SA.

I believe Mongo if I am correct you should know that as a NJROTC instructor in a hs.

Also, going back to the high SAT, low gpa comment for NAPS. I am taken aback, because between this site and college confidential, that rarely is what I have seen for NAPS. What I have seen after 3+ yrs is low SAT and low rigorous course schedules, which would mean lower gpa for the SA is how you get into NAPS.

Should it exist, I believe it should. I have 2 people who I know that did this route for the AFA. They were not athletes, they were not minorities. They just needed to academically mature some more. They had very successful careers.

IMPO it should not exist as a red-shirt yr for athletics, nor should it be an affirmative action way to get in. It should be a way to mentor and guide for one more yr before they hit the pavement.

 

[Mongo]

I believe Mongo if I am correct you should know that as a NJROTC instructor in a hs.

I think you have me confused. Never been a NJROTC Instructor. In our area, not all high schools are SAT sites. Usually one designated in each county. For the lesser attended ones such as March, our students have to go to the next county over. And I don't know about NAPS and since I am not that interested, I am not going to look it up.

 

[Luigi59]

Midshipmen are admitted by two tracks. White applicants out of high school who are not also athletic recruits typically need grades of A and B and minimum SAT scores of 600 on each part for the Board to vote them "qualified." Athletics and leadership also count.

A vote of "qualified" for a white applicant doesn't mean s/he's coming, only that he or she can compete to win the "slate" of up to 10 nominations that (most typically) a Congress(wo)man draws up. That means that nine "qualified" white applicants are rejected. SAT scores below 600 or C grades almost always produce a vote of "not qualified" for white applicants.

Not so for an applicant who self-identifies as one of the minorities who are our "number one priority." For them, another set of rules apply. Their cases are briefed separately to the board, and SAT scores to the mid-500s with quite a few Cs in classes (and no visible athletics or leadership) typically produce a vote of "qualified" for them, with direct admission to Annapolis. They're in, and are given a pro forma nomination to make it legit.

Minority applicants with scores and grades down to the 300s with Cs and Ds (and no particular leadership or athletics) also come, though after a remedial year at our taxpayer-supported remedial school, the Naval Academy Preparatory School.

By using NAPS as a feeder, we've virtually eliminated all competition for "diverse" candidates: in theory they have to get a C average at NAPS to come to USNA, but this is regularly re-negotiated.​

Bruce Fleming
Professor, Department of English,
U.S. Naval Academy
The cost of a diverse Naval Academy
June 14, 2009

 

[Pima]

Mongo,

sorry I confused you with another poster who had almost the identical background. That was my bad. Again, my apologies for confusing you with another poster.

However, that is how SAT proctoring works. College Board doesn't send people to proctor the test. It is the school system. Thus, like I said, proctoring and scoring are 2 different things.

Luigi, that post was very enlightening.

This is a little bit off topic, but I wonder if the SCOTUS case with UMich ever had an impact regarding their system, or could the DOD be able to say military needs trump?

 

[MakeItHappen]

Are you having difficulty reading the original article linked in post #1 of this thread? I believe those numbers are there for you if you would bother to get them and are actually interested.

Look, I'm not having an iota of difficulty.

You cannot answer a simple question and that's fine.

I have the answer.

I don't have clue your background, but i would bet you feel someone close to you got denied and an "unqualified" took there slot.

You can listen to Fleming and his ilk all you want, but your extrapolations are erroneous to the point of hysterical.

 

[MakeItHappen]

Midshipmen are admitted by two tracks. White applicants out of high school who are not also athletic recruits typically need grades of A and B and minimum SAT scores of 600 on each part for the Board to vote them "qualified." Athletics and leadership also count.

A vote of "qualified" for a white applicant doesn't mean s/he's coming, only that he or she can compete to win the "slate" of up to 10 nominations that (most typically) a Congress(wo)man draws up. That means that nine "qualified" white applicants are rejected. SAT scores below 600 or C grades almost always produce a vote of "not qualified" for white applicants.

Not so for an applicant who self-identifies as one of the minorities who are our "number one priority." For them, another set of rules apply. Their cases are briefed separately to the board, and SAT scores to the mid-500s with quite a few Cs in classes (and no visible athletics or leadership) typically produce a vote of "qualified" for them, with direct admission to Annapolis. They're in, and are given a pro forma nomination to make it legit.

Minority applicants with scores and grades down to the 300s with Cs and Ds (and no particular leadership or athletics) also come, though after a remedial year at our taxpayer-supported remedial school, the Naval Academy Preparatory School.

By using NAPS as a feeder, we've virtually eliminated all competition for "diverse" candidates: in theory they have to get a C average at NAPS to come to USNA, but this is regularly re-negotiated.​

Bruce Fleming
Professor, Department of English,
U.S. Naval Academy
The cost of a diverse Naval Academy
June 14, 2009

Gawd, not again. We'll just have to disagree on the old chaps veracity and lack of intellectual honesty, and leave it at that.

BTW, Do you know of any NAPS admits, that were direct admits to USCGA,
or
Do you know of any NAPS admits (athletes), that were direct admits to USCGA,
or
Do you know of any NAPS admits (urms), that were direct admits to USCGA,
cause I do.

 

[aglages]

You cannot answer a simple question and that's fine.

I have the answer.

I'm confused. If you have the answer why are you asking the question? If you have something to contribute to this conversation please post it.

I don't have clue your background..

Are you attempting to say that "You don't have a clue about my background"? If so, you are correct.

i would bet you feel someone close to you got denied and an "unqualified" took there slot.

Hopefully you wouldn't bet something important because you'd lose.

.. your extrapolations are erroneous to the point of hysterical.

Which extrapolations? Is this another one of the answers you actually know but don't want to share?

 

[Mongo]

However, that is how SAT proctoring works. College Board doesn't send people to proctor the test. It is the school system.

They may physically be teachers at the school but when proctoring, they are employees of College Board in smaller areas while in large metropolitans, some of the companies such as Kaplan or Princeton Review might have the contract to administer the entire area. Or that is my understanding. Not worth arguing about in my opinion.

 

[aglages]

Of course. Whe else would do it?

NAPS could administer the test themselves.

..u can Google College Boards as well as I to see if NAPS is a qualified administering facility.

Well...OK....nope it's not showing up as one the testing centers. Perhaps they are administering the tests to only their own students. That would certainly be more convenient.

 

[Mongo]

I'm confused. If you have the answer why are you asking the question? If you have something to contribute to this conversation please post it.

Nowhere in the article does it state XX underserving URMsreceived appointments to USNA (or NAPS). We are supposed to read between the lines and draw our own conclusions. I have mine. I think MIH has his. He is asking you for yours. I would like to know your thoughts also. How many undeserving URMs do you think got into USNA last year? NAPS?

 

[MakeItHappen]

.

Which extrapolations? Is this another one of the answers you actually know but don't want to share?

Extrapolations of the data presented.

Sorry, but your chasing your tail. See you on the next thread.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Gawd, not again. We'll just have to disagree on the old chaps veracity and lack of intellectual honesty, and leave it at that.

BTW, Do you know of any NAPS admits, that were direct admits to USCGA,
or
Do you know of any NAPS admits (athletes), that were direct admits to USCGA,
or
Do you know of any NAPS admits (urms), that were direct admits to USCGA,
cause I do.

You would be referring to the time CGA used NAPS... I do too, and I can't remember half of them that graduated, or nor than three (two that graduated) that weren't minorities. One of them came close, but became the first court martialed cadet in CGA history. You want to talk about the very little good that NAPS does for its students, talk to them. I'm not impressed, and neither were my classmates. Now their sports teams on the other hand.... they could play. Wonder why that was...

 

[aglages]

Not worth arguing about in my opinion.

Success in NAPS coursework basically determines academic qualification.

Evidently SAT scores taken at NAPS don't matter. All that is important is that the staff at NAPS awards a "C" average to the students for them to be admitted to the USNA. Almost all are admitted.

 

[aglages]

We are supposed to read between the lines and draw our own conclusions. I have mine.

Really...what is your read between the lines conclusion?

I think MIH has his.

Wonder why s/he is so reluctant to share it? Last I saw of him/her s/he was running for the next thread without posting any answers.

See you on the next thread.

 

[Mongo]

Really...what is your read between the lines conclusion?

Wonder why s/he is so reluctant to share it?

Because he asked first. And I asked second (and you should be able to read between th elines to know mine). You obviously think there are some. How many? Simple question.

 

[Pima]

Make it happen,

Originally Posted by MakeItHappen View Post
i would bet you feel someone close to you got denied and an "unqualified" took there slot.

Agagles in no way shape or form feels that way. He was actually being classy. So, just for your FYI, his DS has apptmts to multiple SAs because he had that golden ticket of an LOA, and got every nom.

Sorry, Ag if I overstepped my boundaries, I just wanted to make sure people knew you had no bone in this fight regarding your children, just regarding the military from a taxpayer POV.

Mongo,

Aren't you a BGO? As one don't you have a better idea from hands on experience than Agagles? Why would you need to read between the lines of the article? You have lived it 1st hand.

My question is as a BGO, how did you rack and stack those cadets from a rec standpoint? Did skin color come into your decision making when supporting one over another?

If it didn't, than as a BGO would you say it was all academics, and USNA decided to essentially override your recs?

The system has worked for eons, and I believe we should keep it, but there is validity in the debate when people ask is this for athletics or Affirmative Action? Sincerely, as a BGO you have stated the SAs exist to groom the best leaders, I have yet to read you say the best football players or the best minority leader.

 

[Mongo]

My question is as a BGO, how did you rack and stack those cadets from a rec standpoint? Did skin color come into your decision making when supporting one over another?

With over 500 total candidates over the years, I have had only two URMs. Very very few minorities in my area. One got a full ride to Duke and of course was not interested. The other was very interested but only minimally qualified and the Academy minority admissions people were not interested. Discussing it with them, I learned my first valuable lesson that there was no two tiered system. Admissions told me that should they express interest then they would be expected to produce. However, the candidate would very probably not win the MOCs principal slot and she was definitely not national pool material. And was overqualified for NAPS. Therefore, they had no options for her. They would neither call her, allow her to go to NASS, nor allow her to attend CVW. She too ended up at Duke. ROTC. Pre Med.

 

[aglages]

The Navy runs NAPS even though, each year, the Naval Academy has substantially more qualified applicants than it can accept. The Classes of 2012, 2013 and 2014, for example, averaged about 2,435 qualified students who were vying for about 1,230 seats.

For the Naval Academy Classes of 2009-2013, 312 African Americans entered the Naval Academy, 180 (58 percent) of whom came through NAPS, according to documents obtained under FOIA.

Hispanics attended NAPS at a lower rate - 238 of the 678 total (35 percent) went through the prep school.

During these 4 years it looks as though 180 AAs and 238 Hispanics entered through the NAPS program. These numbers obviously don't include URMs that were admitted directly into the USNA with academic stats lower than than non-URM candidates. At a minimum it looks as though during this time frame 418 were appointed though the back door of NAPS.

 

[aglages]

One got a full ride to Duke and of course was not interested.

Why of course? There are plenty of USNA candidates just on this site that have the stats to be admitted to Duke and many of the Ivies. That candidate didn't go to the USNA because s/he didn't belong there.

 

[Mongo]

During these 4 years it looks as though 180 AAs and 238 Hispanics entered through the NAPS program. These numbers obviously don't include URMs that were admitted directly into the USNA with academic stats lower than than non-URM candidates. At a minimum it looks as though during this time frame 418 were appointed though the back door of NAPS.

Is this your answer for undeserving URMS, all of NAPS and possibly all of direct entry? If so, were the Caucausians entering thrugh NAPS also undeserving?

I think it's time I start working on my NAPS presentation.