Now you understand the 92%. They are courted hard by these colleges.
'Best and brightest' article from hometownannapolis.com
- Thread starter cabarle
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I never said all of direct entry. The article was very clear about there being more than enough qualified applicants than slots at the USNA. I believe I included that quote. Those "qualified" applicants were passed over for applicants that were not qualified before attending NAPS and based on the article and your posts I have very little reason to believe improved a lot while at NAPS.
How well do the NAPSters do once in the USNA?
Argue all you want that these NAPSters have had their academic skills improved to the point that they are now as qualified as those that were passed over, but the article quotes people that have been involved in the process and they clearly disagree.
Yes - the difference is that considering increasing the percentages of caucasions is NOT one of the Navy's top priorities....then it is likely these students were admitted for athletic reasons. Still undeserving.
Who cares? What happened to the best and the brightest? How many AA males have graduated from any college? Seriously, how big a pool of applicants is the Navy trying to recruit from?
Pima
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Out of curiosity did they go NROTC? After all was it pages and pages ago you just stated that the ROTC cadets were not as stellar as SA cadets and they only went this route because they couldn't get into an SA?
Are you now back tracking and saying that there are cadets just as stellar who opt to do ROTC over the SA?
Let's move on!
As a person who worked in the educational world for many yrs, here is where I have to say SPLAIN please.
You live in a county where the students must go to a neighboring county to take an SAT, but had
How many yrs? To me if the county does not hold SATs within the county, that pool is very small and 500 is a big arse number in the equation. Basically even 20 yrs as a BGO that is 25 candidates. That is big time, and 3 yrs on this site with multiple posters who are ALO/MALO/BGO I am having a hard time believing every yr for 20 yrs you juggled 25 candidates when your county hs does not hold SATs. Put that all together, than how competitive is your area from an SA POV...i.e. CA, CO, TX, NY, FL, VA, etc? We were from NC and our hs had SATs held at every hs...Goldsboro, NC, look it up...hub of Wayne County and still it was 50 miles out from a big city...plus we had 2 Congressman for our town, and the ALO only had 10-15 cadets in an AF town. If our ALO in an AF town had 10 candidates, and every hs offered the SAT, how is it you had 500 USNA candidates and the county did not offer SATs?
Honestly, any and every parent will have a hard time biting off on your premise. As someone in the educational field, the BS flag that not one HS in the county offers the SAT is making me have a gag reflex especially when you say you had 500 candidates.
Again, we all know you have been doing this for a long time. I respect it.
I believe 1000% you have been there for every candidate as a BGO. I believe as a BGO you rec'd the best candidate for your pile.
HOWEVER, I believe as a BGO on this site you are hurting the USNA because you are stating as that BGO you believe in giving an edge for AAs.
I am with ag...you can't sit here and say best and brightest, but than create loop holes.
Honestly if you want the best and brightest NAPS system would change! Anyone who got placed in the NWL, but not apptd would get NAPS. In other words, if 1600 are offerred appptmts, than 1601-1900 on that list would be given NAPS...WCS score wins!
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Pima
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Interesting how you didn't mention that Duke kid which you mentioned earlier.
So let me get this right:
Yet you posted this:
Confusion here...did you not state in an earlier post state 2 in your pool tried, but, yet now as I read it, you are stating you didn't mention it.
So let me get this right:
Yet you posted this:
Confusion here...did you not state in an earlier post state 2 in your pool tried, but, yet now as I read it, you are stating you didn't mention it.
I was responding to your question about ROTC. He received an academic scholarship, not a ROTC scholarship which is why I did not mention ROTC. My original post stands. One ROTC, one not ROTC and no mention of ROTC in my statement.
Let's move on.
Pima
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I agree move on.
Accept that not every one agrees with you that NAPS exists for academic purposes only; many believe that the system is not just.
Opponents of Mongo's accept that not everyone gets into NAPS are athletes or minorities. Many do get in because they just need 1 more yr of prep school from an academic POV.
Respect each other for the POV they bring to the table. Each position will enlighten you more regarding the SA world.
Accept that not every one agrees with you that NAPS exists for academic purposes only; many believe that the system is not just.
Opponents of Mongo's accept that not everyone gets into NAPS are athletes or minorities. Many do get in because they just need 1 more yr of prep school from an academic POV.
Respect each other for the POV they bring to the table. Each position will enlighten you more regarding the SA world.
Got it. But there sure isn't much room for those that are not minorities or recruited athletes.
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non athletic white male
So it sounds like those white males, who are not recruited athletes, should not have much hope for getting an appointment to the USNA, even if their SAT's ACT's are worthy of Duke, their GPA is worthy of Duke, and they have a record of being a proven leader?
So those parents with said white males should be encouraging them to look at their plans B C or D about now?
I never knew........wow. TMI.
So it sounds like those white males, who are not recruited athletes, should not have much hope for getting an appointment to the USNA, even if their SAT's ACT's are worthy of Duke, their GPA is worthy of Duke, and they have a record of being a proven leader?
So those parents with said white males should be encouraging them to look at their plans B C or D about now?
I never knew........wow. TMI.
Luigi59
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Gawd, not again. We'll just have to disagree on the old chaps veracity and lack of intellectual honesty, and leave it at that.
BTW, Do you know of any NAPS admits, that were direct admits to USCGA,
or
Do you know of any NAPS admits (athletes), that were direct admits to USCGA,
or
Do you know of any NAPS admits (urms), that were direct admits to USCGA,
cause I do.
I'll let LITS's response stand on its own, and eagerrly await your reply.
I'll also choose the credibility of a current professor who is at USNA every day, who teaches these students every day, who has sat on the Admission board, vs an anonymous internet poster.
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I'll second that advice and go further: Those white males that can compete in the current USNA admissions process and are offered an appointment are IMHO truly the best and brightest. Additionally we may need these super stars to fix the PC problems currently being created in the Navy.Don't give up hope...some of us made it...
http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2009/07/22/the_racism_of_diversity
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NAPS
NAPS. Against my better judgment. NAPS has been around for a century or so. First it was utilized solely to prepare active duty sailors for the Academy. By the ‘60s, high school graduates, not quite up to par academically, were allowed to join the Reserves with the intent of reporting directly to NAPS. ( My pet peeve with this was that for pay purposes they started out as Ensigns with over 5 years of service. This has changed) I had four company classmates who were NAPSters. One from the fleet who quit plebe year, but not before he taught all of us how to really shine our shoes, one football player who graduated and made it to O-6 as an aviator, a very successful career, and two high schoolers out of the coal fields of PA who struggled academically. One got out after his initial commitment and the other went on to be a destroyer sailor and skipper. Very successful. NAPS was then utilized in the ‘70s and early ‘80s to assist those females who were willing to be pioneers but were not quite up to the Academic challenge. By this time they were allowing civilian candidates direct entry (they still had to join the reserves but it was only for the duration of NAPS).
Until about 20 years ago, the sole method of an enlisted individual becoming an unrestricted line officer was USNA usually via NAPS. Then the STA-21 (Seaman to Admiral) program was initiated and has become, to date, a greater and greater source of officer transition. Sailors are allowed E-5 pay, privileges, and allowances ,have their tuition and fees paid, and attend the university of their choice so long as it has a NROTC unit, not for them to be a part of, but just so they can check in monthly or so in order that the Navy can ascertain that they have not gone native. So tell me, had you rather get yelled at as a Plebe or live the life of Riley in an apartment in some college town? Needless to say, the initial reasons for establishing NAPS are suffering. Jokingly, I refer to a Catch-22 that any sailor who prefers USNA over STA-21 is exhibiting headwork which should preclude him from being accepted at USNA.
Now, lets look at the nomination and appointment system. I’m sure I don’t need to reiterate that federal law demands a relatively good cross section of America. To attend USNA. A relatively good cross section which closely emulates the enlisted whom they will serve. However, when federal law has completed its initial cross sectional appointments, there are still 400 hundred or so empty seats. These positions are required by law to be filled nationally on a competitive basis. This is where problems emerge. Schools are not the same. Regions are not the same. Socio economic conditions are not the same. Not to pick on a particular region, but it would not be too difficult to completely fill the class with rich white suburban lacrosse players from Northern Virginia. Is this the demographic cross section that is most efficiently going to lead our troops? Definitely not.
The solution. Go out into America and get a good group of the “best and brightest” of each and every location in America. Preserve the great diversity of the American population in the Naval Officer corps. Build a core that can effectively lead those to whom they have been entrusted, sailors who came from their own backgrounds, sailors they understand. This is what NAPS has been doing, at least for the past 50 years, hence my two coal country company mates. It is what they must continue doing. To coin a phrase, “through the back door”. Why is it now suddenly a problem only when the faces of a few of them have changed colors? Their academic credentials are no different than my classmates of 50 years ago from the coal fields of PA.
I am a BGO in one of those areas which I described above in Paragraph three. I have had eight candidates attend NAPS. All white. One female. One recruited athlete. The female fell in love with her plebe candidate summer squad leader and quit after the first semester of Plebe year. The athlete had a better offer with a major university and turned down his appointment to USNA. The other six have or will graduate. None stellar academically. One or two on the 4 ½ or 5 year plan. All have found a niche where they have been able to contribute. All will make great officers and contribute positively to the Navy. I think both from my time as a Mid and as a BGO that it is a very worthy and noble position which the Navy has taken in regards to NAPS.
Additionally, a dirty little secret, a totally separate issue, but still about NAPS. Recruited athletes attending NAPS acquire absolutely no further commitment. A recruited athlete can attend NAPS, excel in his sport, learn how to study, get a year of college credits,tell the Navy goodbye, and play for any college in the country with no eligibility penalties whatsoever. Colleges realize this and recruit discreetly. It would not be too much of an exaggeration to state that the Mountain West football conference is playing more NAPSters than Navy. I think Navy coaches even have the same visitation restrictions placed on them as with any other student contemplating USNA the following year. Needless to say, coaches think twice before throwing their star blue chip recruits into this environment. You will find this reflected in the overall athletic quality of the NAPS athletes.
NAPS. Against my better judgment. NAPS has been around for a century or so. First it was utilized solely to prepare active duty sailors for the Academy. By the ‘60s, high school graduates, not quite up to par academically, were allowed to join the Reserves with the intent of reporting directly to NAPS. ( My pet peeve with this was that for pay purposes they started out as Ensigns with over 5 years of service. This has changed) I had four company classmates who were NAPSters. One from the fleet who quit plebe year, but not before he taught all of us how to really shine our shoes, one football player who graduated and made it to O-6 as an aviator, a very successful career, and two high schoolers out of the coal fields of PA who struggled academically. One got out after his initial commitment and the other went on to be a destroyer sailor and skipper. Very successful. NAPS was then utilized in the ‘70s and early ‘80s to assist those females who were willing to be pioneers but were not quite up to the Academic challenge. By this time they were allowing civilian candidates direct entry (they still had to join the reserves but it was only for the duration of NAPS).
Until about 20 years ago, the sole method of an enlisted individual becoming an unrestricted line officer was USNA usually via NAPS. Then the STA-21 (Seaman to Admiral) program was initiated and has become, to date, a greater and greater source of officer transition. Sailors are allowed E-5 pay, privileges, and allowances ,have their tuition and fees paid, and attend the university of their choice so long as it has a NROTC unit, not for them to be a part of, but just so they can check in monthly or so in order that the Navy can ascertain that they have not gone native. So tell me, had you rather get yelled at as a Plebe or live the life of Riley in an apartment in some college town? Needless to say, the initial reasons for establishing NAPS are suffering. Jokingly, I refer to a Catch-22 that any sailor who prefers USNA over STA-21 is exhibiting headwork which should preclude him from being accepted at USNA.
Now, lets look at the nomination and appointment system. I’m sure I don’t need to reiterate that federal law demands a relatively good cross section of America. To attend USNA. A relatively good cross section which closely emulates the enlisted whom they will serve. However, when federal law has completed its initial cross sectional appointments, there are still 400 hundred or so empty seats. These positions are required by law to be filled nationally on a competitive basis. This is where problems emerge. Schools are not the same. Regions are not the same. Socio economic conditions are not the same. Not to pick on a particular region, but it would not be too difficult to completely fill the class with rich white suburban lacrosse players from Northern Virginia. Is this the demographic cross section that is most efficiently going to lead our troops? Definitely not.
The solution. Go out into America and get a good group of the “best and brightest” of each and every location in America. Preserve the great diversity of the American population in the Naval Officer corps. Build a core that can effectively lead those to whom they have been entrusted, sailors who came from their own backgrounds, sailors they understand. This is what NAPS has been doing, at least for the past 50 years, hence my two coal country company mates. It is what they must continue doing. To coin a phrase, “through the back door”. Why is it now suddenly a problem only when the faces of a few of them have changed colors? Their academic credentials are no different than my classmates of 50 years ago from the coal fields of PA.
I am a BGO in one of those areas which I described above in Paragraph three. I have had eight candidates attend NAPS. All white. One female. One recruited athlete. The female fell in love with her plebe candidate summer squad leader and quit after the first semester of Plebe year. The athlete had a better offer with a major university and turned down his appointment to USNA. The other six have or will graduate. None stellar academically. One or two on the 4 ½ or 5 year plan. All have found a niche where they have been able to contribute. All will make great officers and contribute positively to the Navy. I think both from my time as a Mid and as a BGO that it is a very worthy and noble position which the Navy has taken in regards to NAPS.
Additionally, a dirty little secret, a totally separate issue, but still about NAPS. Recruited athletes attending NAPS acquire absolutely no further commitment. A recruited athlete can attend NAPS, excel in his sport, learn how to study, get a year of college credits,tell the Navy goodbye, and play for any college in the country with no eligibility penalties whatsoever. Colleges realize this and recruit discreetly. It would not be too much of an exaggeration to state that the Mountain West football conference is playing more NAPSters than Navy. I think Navy coaches even have the same visitation restrictions placed on them as with any other student contemplating USNA the following year. Needless to say, coaches think twice before throwing their star blue chip recruits into this environment. You will find this reflected in the overall athletic quality of the NAPS athletes.
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We don't pick a definite number, but around mid 500s, excluding writing. For any applicant around mid 500s we pay more attention to their high school transcript to see he or she is a bad test taker or not.
Yes and Yes, but depends on how competitive that year is. There are always applicants, I think this year I remeber at least 2, with below 500 that applies for nomination. On avearge, they don't get the nomination.
Remember, MOC gives upto 10 nominations per vacancy. My MOC might have 20 applicants asking for nominations to the Naval Academy. Back to my favoriate topic, normal distribution, top candidates are pretty clear, kids that are not going to get the nominations are pretty clear, where we have long discussions are kids in the middle. This year we decided not to give a nomination to a NAPSter, a good kid, but decent GPAs with easy classes, everything else centered around a sport, and weak SAT score slight above 500s. Our final discussion was if the Naval Academy really wants him, they will find a nomination for him.
Lastly, remember MOC can use whatever standard he wants for the nomination process. Nomination does not equal to appointment. Nomination is required for appointment. Something like 3000 applicants recieved nominations but only 1400 to 1600 offers of appointment.
Member, I thought you were a Woop but apparently you are discussing USNA qualifications. You need to start getting your facts straight. Last year USNA reported over 6000 nominations from MOCs alone. Attention to detail, my friend.
I did say "somethigng like" and I assumed USNA being similiar to WP
However, if you want to discuss attention to detail, my friend
"over 6000 nominations from MOCs alone" doesn't sound right as
100 senators + 435 HOR = 535 x 10 nomination = 5350
and
according to 2014 profile = 4658
http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/USNA 2014 Class Portrait.pdf
You could consider moving to a less competitive district. The initial competition is within your Congressional district.
I am kidding, but from my personal experience and being a FFR for 7 or 8 years, the system does work (for most applicants).
Luigi59
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6,000 from MOCs alone? No lying, cheating, or stealing, nor should we tolerate those who do.
The USNA Class of 2014 profile lists nowhere near 6,000 MOC nominations.
You have embellished the number by adding Presidential, SecNav, ROTC, and DAV nominations.
There were 4, 658 MOC nominations to the USNA last year. Not 6,000.
You need to start getting your facts straight.
Attention to detail.
http://www.usna.edu/admissions/USNA 2014 Class Portrait.pdf
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