Do you feel that they are mutually exclusive, that 'diversity' officers will not make as good combat leaders?
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Just_A_Mom
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Memphis - here is the article you have been waiting for, published in the Navy Times:
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/07/navy_naval_academy_070310w/
Frankly - I am sick and tired of folks continually haranguing on 'social engineering' and 'political correctness'.
It sounds like sour grapes that these slots are no longer reserved only for white boys from well to do families who want their sons to have a military education and experience to jump start them in the business world.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/07/navy_naval_academy_070310w/
Frankly - I am sick and tired of folks continually haranguing on 'social engineering' and 'political correctness'.
It sounds like sour grapes that these slots are no longer reserved only for white boys from well to do families who want their sons to have a military education and experience to jump start them in the business world.
Farleigh85
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Great! I'd like to look at the average SAT/ACT and GPA scores of minority freshman--in fact, of the entire class of 2014. Do you know where I can find this information?
Farleigh85
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Yes, that is annoying. I'm retired military and my motivation was service to my country. I didn't get rich doing it. I have some fine sons I believe are also pursuing military service for the same reason. I would hope all midshipmen have similar or better motivations.
Diversity
If I'm not mistaken, I saw on another thread a few weeks ago that an upper class mid posted that either the 'dant or other academy administrator said that the Class of 2014 was also the "smartest" ever admitted. Not sure if that was some type of motivator, or truly based on average GPA, SAT, ACT, etc.
If I'm not mistaken, I saw on another thread a few weeks ago that an upper class mid posted that either the 'dant or other academy administrator said that the Class of 2014 was also the "smartest" ever admitted. Not sure if that was some type of motivator, or truly based on average GPA, SAT, ACT, etc.
pasted from the link at beginning of this thread :
CLASS OF 2014 (as of June 29, 2010):
PROJECTED CLASS SIZE: APPLICATIONS:
Men 984 Men…………13,450 Majority…..12,038
Women 263 Women…….. 3,967 Minority……5,379
Total 1,247 Total. . . . . . . 17,417
The Class of 2013 inducted 1,230 midshipmen and received 15,342 applications
COMPOSITION:
Top 40% of high school class 91%
Varsity athlete 90%
Community service 85%
Dramatics, public speaking, debate 77%
Varsity team captain 64%
Church group 53%
National Honor Society 58%
Student body leader 36%
Tutoring 40%
Work experience (>10 hrs/week) 28%
Musical activities (i.e. band, chorus, etc.) 28%
-more-
CLASS OF 2014 STATS 2-2-2-2-2
WOMEN & MINORITIES:
The Class of 2014 includes 263 women (21%) and a total of 438 minority midshipmen (35%) with ethnic backgrounds as follows:
Ethnic background Number
Hispanic 176
African American 129
Asian American 101
Native American 17
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander 13
The Class of 2013 was comprised of 20% women and 35% minority midshipmen
INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS:
The Class of 2014 includes 12 international students from: Brunei (1), Ecuador (2), Georgia (1), Jamaica (1), Lebanon (2), Lithuania (1), Maldives (1), Panama (1), and Taiwan (2).
ALUMNI SONS AND DAUGHTERS:
The Class of 2014 includes 61 sons and 17 daughters of Naval Academy alumni
(6.3%).
EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:
The Class of 2014 includes 31% percent (383) from college and post�high school preparatory programs, which include:
· 262 from Naval Academy Preparatory School (NAPS) in Newport, R.I.
· 59 from the U.S. Naval Academy Foundation Program (30 from preparatory schools and 29 from other colleges under foundation sponsorship).
· 62 additional students have completed at least six months of study at a college or university.
MILITARY BACKGROUND
TOTAL FORMER ENLISTED:*
Navy 27
Marine Corps 7
Total 34
*This figure includes 12 who entered directly from the Navy. Additionally, 22 prior enlisted attended a year at the Naval Academy Preparatory School (15 from the Navy and 7 from the Marine Corps).
USNA
Maybe they will update this with test scores - otherwise this is only hard stats I have found
CLASS OF 2014 (as of June 29, 2010):
PROJECTED CLASS SIZE: APPLICATIONS:
Men 984 Men…………13,450 Majority…..12,038
Women 263 Women…….. 3,967 Minority……5,379
Total 1,247 Total. . . . . . . 17,417
The Class of 2013 inducted 1,230 midshipmen and received 15,342 applications
COMPOSITION:
Top 40% of high school class 91%
Varsity athlete 90%
Community service 85%
Dramatics, public speaking, debate 77%
Varsity team captain 64%
Church group 53%
National Honor Society 58%
Student body leader 36%
Tutoring 40%
Work experience (>10 hrs/week) 28%
Musical activities (i.e. band, chorus, etc.) 28%
-more-
CLASS OF 2014 STATS 2-2-2-2-2
WOMEN & MINORITIES:
The Class of 2014 includes 263 women (21%) and a total of 438 minority midshipmen (35%) with ethnic backgrounds as follows:
Ethnic background Number
Hispanic 176
African American 129
Asian American 101
Native American 17
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander 13
The Class of 2013 was comprised of 20% women and 35% minority midshipmen
INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS:
The Class of 2014 includes 12 international students from: Brunei (1), Ecuador (2), Georgia (1), Jamaica (1), Lebanon (2), Lithuania (1), Maldives (1), Panama (1), and Taiwan (2).
ALUMNI SONS AND DAUGHTERS:
The Class of 2014 includes 61 sons and 17 daughters of Naval Academy alumni
(6.3%).
EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:
The Class of 2014 includes 31% percent (383) from college and post�high school preparatory programs, which include:
· 262 from Naval Academy Preparatory School (NAPS) in Newport, R.I.
· 59 from the U.S. Naval Academy Foundation Program (30 from preparatory schools and 29 from other colleges under foundation sponsorship).
· 62 additional students have completed at least six months of study at a college or university.
MILITARY BACKGROUND
TOTAL FORMER ENLISTED:*
Navy 27
Marine Corps 7
Total 34
*This figure includes 12 who entered directly from the Navy. Additionally, 22 prior enlisted attended a year at the Naval Academy Preparatory School (15 from the Navy and 7 from the Marine Corps).
USNA
Maybe they will update this with test scores - otherwise this is only hard stats I have found
CLASS OF 2013 (as of June 30, 2009):
PROJECTED CLASS SIZE: APPLICATIONS:
Men 981 Men…………11,923 Majority…..10,957
Women 249 Women…….. 3,419 Minority……4,385
Total 1,230 Total. . . . . . . 15,342
COMPOSITION:
Top 40% of High School Class 91%
Varsity Athlete 90%
Community Service 85%
Dramatics, Public Speaking, Debate 85%
Varsity Team Captain 61%
Church Group 56%
National Honor Society 56%
Student Body Leader 38%
Tutoring 38%
Work Experience (>10 hrs/week) 32%
Musical Activities (i.e. Band, Chorus, etc.) 30%
School Publication 20%
Non-English as Primary Language in Home 12%
First Generation American 9%
First to Attend College in Family 6%
-more-
CLASS OF 2013 STATS 2-2-2-2-2
WOMEN & MINORITIES:
The Class of 2013 includes 249 women (20%) and a total of 435 minority midshipmen (35%) with ethnic backgrounds as follows:
Ethnic background Number
Hispanic 175
African American 125
Asian American 102
Native American 22
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander 11
INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS:
The Class of 2013 includes 18 international students from: Azerbaijan (1), Belize (2), Georgia (3), Guatemala (1), Korea (Democratic) (1), Lebanon (1), Montenegro (1), Panama (1), Philippines (1), Poland (1), Singapore (1), South Africa (1), Taiwan (1), and Tunisia (2).
ALUMNI SONS AND DAUGHTERS:
The Class of 2013 includes 50 sons and 16 daughters of Naval Academy alumni
(5.4%).
EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:
The Class of 2013 includes 28% percent (344) from college and post�high school preparatory programs, which include:
· 242 from Naval Academy Preparatory School (NAPS) in Newport, R.I.
· 64 from the U.S. Naval Academy Foundation Program (40 from preparatory schools and 24 from other colleges under Foundation sponsorship).
· 38 additional students have completed at least six months of study at a college or university.
SCHOLASTIC ASSESSMENT TEST (SAT):
Average SAT scores national comparison for USNA Class of 2013
Hispanics average top 5% scores for all college bound Hispanic students.
African Americans average top 6% for all college bound African American students.
-more-
CLASS OF 2013 STATS 3-3-3-3-3
Caucasian average top 11% for all college bound Caucasian students.
MILITARY BACKGROUND
TOTAL FORMER ENLISTED:*
Navy 32
Marine Corps 11
Total 43
*This figure includes 19 who entered directly from the Navy (15) and the Marine Corps (4). Additionally, 24 prior enlisted attended a year at the Naval Academy Preparatory School (17 from the Navy and 7 from the Marine Corps). This figure also includes 8 Marines and 1 Sailor who served in Iraq/Afghanistan.
USNA
Note the date - perhaps the profile for 2014 will be updated with test data later.
PROJECTED CLASS SIZE: APPLICATIONS:
Men 981 Men…………11,923 Majority…..10,957
Women 249 Women…….. 3,419 Minority……4,385
Total 1,230 Total. . . . . . . 15,342
COMPOSITION:
Top 40% of High School Class 91%
Varsity Athlete 90%
Community Service 85%
Dramatics, Public Speaking, Debate 85%
Varsity Team Captain 61%
Church Group 56%
National Honor Society 56%
Student Body Leader 38%
Tutoring 38%
Work Experience (>10 hrs/week) 32%
Musical Activities (i.e. Band, Chorus, etc.) 30%
School Publication 20%
Non-English as Primary Language in Home 12%
First Generation American 9%
First to Attend College in Family 6%
-more-
CLASS OF 2013 STATS 2-2-2-2-2
WOMEN & MINORITIES:
The Class of 2013 includes 249 women (20%) and a total of 435 minority midshipmen (35%) with ethnic backgrounds as follows:
Ethnic background Number
Hispanic 175
African American 125
Asian American 102
Native American 22
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander 11
INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS:
The Class of 2013 includes 18 international students from: Azerbaijan (1), Belize (2), Georgia (3), Guatemala (1), Korea (Democratic) (1), Lebanon (1), Montenegro (1), Panama (1), Philippines (1), Poland (1), Singapore (1), South Africa (1), Taiwan (1), and Tunisia (2).
ALUMNI SONS AND DAUGHTERS:
The Class of 2013 includes 50 sons and 16 daughters of Naval Academy alumni
(5.4%).
EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:
The Class of 2013 includes 28% percent (344) from college and post�high school preparatory programs, which include:
· 242 from Naval Academy Preparatory School (NAPS) in Newport, R.I.
· 64 from the U.S. Naval Academy Foundation Program (40 from preparatory schools and 24 from other colleges under Foundation sponsorship).
· 38 additional students have completed at least six months of study at a college or university.
SCHOLASTIC ASSESSMENT TEST (SAT):
Average SAT scores national comparison for USNA Class of 2013
Hispanics average top 5% scores for all college bound Hispanic students.
African Americans average top 6% for all college bound African American students.
-more-
CLASS OF 2013 STATS 3-3-3-3-3
Caucasian average top 11% for all college bound Caucasian students.
MILITARY BACKGROUND
TOTAL FORMER ENLISTED:*
Navy 32
Marine Corps 11
Total 43
*This figure includes 19 who entered directly from the Navy (15) and the Marine Corps (4). Additionally, 24 prior enlisted attended a year at the Naval Academy Preparatory School (17 from the Navy and 7 from the Marine Corps). This figure also includes 8 Marines and 1 Sailor who served in Iraq/Afghanistan.
USNA
Note the date - perhaps the profile for 2014 will be updated with test data later.
Memphis9489
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Who ever said spots were reserved "only for white boys from well to do families"? I think that would be equally as wrong. I don't think I said anything remotely like that. YOU DID.
What's wrong with simply taking the BEST candidates - regardless of color?
Why even bother bragging about diversity? Why not brag about achievement-related issues for each incoming class rather than their "diversity". Is the color of one's skin some kind of "achievement"? Is one's socio-economic background an "achievement"?
I say, pick the best candidates - regardless of their background. Naturally, you have to have the mandated geographic diversity. Also, as practical matter, you have to have so many females. But, other than that, I don't see why there should be any other admission objective other than excellence.
It's an old argument. There's no point in beating a dead horse.
My intent was not to argue whether the academy SHOULD or should NOT have racial quotas -rather- I'm simply pointing out that the Academy seems suspiciously silent about the Class of 2014's record-breaking diversity whereas, for the Class of 2013, they were screaming it from the rooftops.
Why do you think that is?
The class of 2013 information, is on the USNA Admissions page
http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/
Click the pdf for Class of 2013 Portrait. The information you are looking for is on page 2 Inside cover
If it is like past years the full profile for the Class of 2014 will not be available until the end of Plebe Summer. I recall that at the Supes Brief for PPW they showed the stats in a Power Point presentation and just after that it appeared on the USNA Admissions page.
Just_A_Mom
10-Year Member
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Well, Memphis - YOU are the one who brought it up negatively. You call it 'social engineering' blah blah.
It might surpirse folks to know that the Naval Academy (and other SA's) have not traditionally sought out to enroll any students other than white males, especially those who come from a military family.
Go back and look at the demographics from the 60's and 70's. Women were not *invited* the academies were forced to accept them.
So, yes - there is pressure on the Academies to show they have indeed opened their door to young americans from all walks of life, both sexes and any race.
Anyone who has a problem with that, I think has sour grapes.
In the past the *mandated* geographic diveristy has not been very successful. Gerrymandering in many areas draws racial congressional lines. Some Conressional districts offer few candidates because of a lack of outreach and a lack of community expectation to attend college. The Academy would simply not fill these slots and admit more (white, males) from the waiting list.
It might surpirse folks to know that the Naval Academy (and other SA's) have not traditionally sought out to enroll any students other than white males, especially those who come from a military family.
Go back and look at the demographics from the 60's and 70's. Women were not *invited* the academies were forced to accept them.
So, yes - there is pressure on the Academies to show they have indeed opened their door to young americans from all walks of life, both sexes and any race.
Anyone who has a problem with that, I think has sour grapes.
In the past the *mandated* geographic diveristy has not been very successful. Gerrymandering in many areas draws racial congressional lines. Some Conressional districts offer few candidates because of a lack of outreach and a lack of community expectation to attend college. The Academy would simply not fill these slots and admit more (white, males) from the waiting list.
They are not. The article was in the Navy Times. This is about the same time table as other years. Maybe this is just 'old news'.
You're not the only one. I'm sure one of the experts / knowledgeable posters on this site will be able to provide those stats or a link to them.
The admissions slides available last year (which did show test data) are no longer available and havent been for some time - but if one wants to try to understand class of 2013 test stats, one could try to use (will try to paste the link):
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2009
I do believe that simply the "best" should be offered the appointment.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2009
I do believe that simply the "best" should be offered the appointment.
Wack, wack wack...is the horse dead yet?
Seems to me that Memphis comes close to hitting the bullseye when referring to "candidates" but needs to move the target out 5-10 years. The goal of a SA is to produce military officers, so they need to select for potential. As the Sup mentioned during his talk, none of these kids are ready to lead right now. Admissions may have reason to think a minority kid has more potential than another kid - even with lower scores or grades. So looking at performance in the fleet is a better measure of success than looking at SAT scores.
Seems to me that Memphis comes close to hitting the bullseye when referring to "candidates" but needs to move the target out 5-10 years. The goal of a SA is to produce military officers, so they need to select for potential. As the Sup mentioned during his talk, none of these kids are ready to lead right now. Admissions may have reason to think a minority kid has more potential than another kid - even with lower scores or grades. So looking at performance in the fleet is a better measure of success than looking at SAT scores.
The information for the Class of 2013 is on the USNA web site
Now that we all have seen this for 2013. I have seen middle of the road SAT scores admitted to USNA and then graduate with distinction. Can we now move on as diversity is will be part of the admissions mission for years to come. The funny thing is this seems to matter to all of the parents but many of our Mids/Plebes are diversity blind.
Now that we all have seen this for 2013. I have seen middle of the road SAT scores admitted to USNA and then graduate with distinction. Can we now move on as diversity is will be part of the admissions mission for years to come. The funny thing is this seems to matter to all of the parents but many of our Mids/Plebes are diversity blind.
Of course! Just as I'm sure admissions will occasionally find that a "kid" who is not from a URM group has more potential than another kid. In the end the SAT/ACT GPA stats of those with potential should be equal. Unless you have some reason to believe that admissions happens to find more minority students with low stats and high potential than non-URM students?
Great! What was the breakdown by SAT ranges and graduation percentages? Your point is that SAT scores are not an indicator of success in the USNA....correct? Hopefully you have some facts other than you've known a couple of people that told you they had middle of the road SAT scores.
Is someone arguing that diversity should not be a goal, or are you suggesting that we shouldn't discuss the current methods that the USNA is using to accomplish it's mission? Are there currently applicants of ANY race that are being denied admission to the USNA not because of their stats or potential but because of the color of their skin?
How about the potential Mids/Plebes that were passed over by admissions because of the emphasis on diversity? Do you think it matters to them?
Do you feel that a suburban middle-class white kid is playing on the same field as an inner city African American kid that as grown up with one parent, below the poverty level, in a drug infested neioghborhood?
Let's just keep things as they have always been and not let the minority kids advance. We can use SAT/ACT scores as a way to keep them out. God knows those tests really give a great indication of how a kid will be as a leader.
Let's just keep things as they have always been and not let the minority kids advance. We can use SAT/ACT scores as a way to keep them out. God knows those tests really give a great indication of how a kid will be as a leader.
Why use SAT/ACT/GPA scores at all if they are not relevant to leadership? Obviously it is a just another example of the conspiracy to keep the minority kids out of the USNA.
What matters to them is that they did not get in. If they blame a diversity policy, something clearly out of their control, then IMO they will have a hard time with "Sir, No Excuses, Sir" The TWE should provoke a time of self reflection rather than blame, especially if that young person is to reapply. And it is up to the parents that we do not perpetuate outside blame, but work with the young person to make them a better applicant should they try to reapply.
USNA does not use GPA in their admissions process - they use class rank - everything in the military judges you against your peers and class rank fits that model much better than convoluted GPA's that HS's use to make their own profile look better.
SAT scores do not speak to leadership, they are used as a means to judge if the applicant can do the work. It USNA sees leadership potential with mediocre SAT scores the applicant may get the nod to Foundation or NAPS. If they see top 10% SAT scores with no leadership in the package, an appointment will be much harder to achieve. Information presented at BGO training.
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I forgot, there is no history of intitutional exclussion in the history of this country.
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