5 Marines killed in Osprey crash

RIP. Always sad to hear of these incidents.
 
.
I am curious to know how safety is measured for airborne vehicles …. How many categories of safety are there, and are they all based on “Flight Hours” or maybe even “Total Engine Hours”.

All of my Diesel equipment and tractors have “Hour Meters” including my diesel trucks …. Would there be separate times …. e.g Safety broken down by Total time versus engine on and stationary time only versus engine on and in flight simultaneous, etc .

I get the general feeling that the Osprey is involved in more safety incidents than other Rotor or Fixed Wing aircraft in general … just a hunch.
.
 
Dr. Strange Love said:
.
I am curious to know how safety is measured for airborne vehicles …. How many categories of safety are there, and are they all based on “Flight Hours” or maybe even “Total Engine Hours”.

All of my Diesel equipment and tractors have “Hour Meters” including my diesel trucks …. Would there be separate times …. e.g Safety broken down by Total time versus engine on and stationary time only versus engine on and in flight simultaneous, etc .

I get the general feeling that the Osprey is involved in more safety incidents than other Rotor or Fixed Wing aircraft in general … just a hunch.
Click to expand...
Safety is measured in Naval Aviation (Navy and Marine) by the number of mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The Osprey mishap was a Class Alfa mishap. The category is defined as aircraft damage exceeding 2.5 million dollars, or aircraft destroyed and loss of life. The other safety categories are Bravo, Charlie and Delta.

Rest assured that the squadron will look at all possibilities that may have contributed to the mishap. The mishap board will comb the aircraft maintenance records looking at engine hours, major part changes, who did the maintenance on the bird and when. The board will also look at training factors. First and foremost, were the pilots qualified to fly the mission? When was the last time the pilots flew? They’ll look at human factors. Did the crew have adequate rest before the flight? Were there any stressors in their life, personal or work related? The squadron mishap investigation is exhaustive. The facts, opinions, and recommendations of the investigation board are reviewed at the three-star level. The GO, in this case, may agree, disagree with the findings or tell the board to submit amplifying information.

I have included this link with some metrics that you may find interesting:

Check these slides in particular: Class A (Alfa) flight mishaps for the Navy and Marine Corps; the "Short Narrative Section (Navy and Marine)", and the last slide, “Mishap Confidence Level”. This last one escapes me a bit as I have forgotten probs and stats lingo from long ago.

https://navalsafetycommand.navy.mil/Portals/29/Documents/Mishap_Stats081220.pdf

I may be mistaken but I believe that Ospreys are not involved in more mishaps than other Marine Corps aircraft. I think the Osprey just happens to get more media coverage.
 

Attachments

  • Mishap_Stats081220.pdf
    587.1 KB · Views: 2
Dr. Strange Love said:
.
I am curious to know how safety is measured for airborne vehicles …. How many categories of safety are there, and are they all based on “Flight Hours” or maybe even “Total Engine Hours”.

All of my Diesel equipment and tractors have “Hour Meters” including my diesel trucks …. Would there be separate times …. e.g Safety broken down by Total time versus engine on and stationary time only versus engine on and in flight simultaneous, etc .

I get the general feeling that the Osprey is involved in more safety incidents than other Rotor or Fixed Wing aircraft in general … just a hunch.
.
Click to expand...
The Osprey is supposedly the safest aircraft per flight hour in the DoD. It had a rocky development and a lot of media attention that led to its current reputation. I forget the name but there is a pretty good book on the flaws of the development process at every level. A couple high profile mishaps and a lot of shady ethics. Maintenance is a challenge and they aren't flying at 30,000 feet where you have a ton of room to work a problem. My roommate spent a block last summer with an Osprey squadron and he said they were very open about the maintenance challenges with funding and part availability.
 
"A couple high profile mishaps and a lot of shady ethics."

Exactly. While I have no doubt it's a very capable aircraft, there are issues. The best example of politicking around that aircraft was described to me during an interview I did with BGen Don Harvel. He ended up writing a book about the accident board that ended his career. He stuck to his USMA "Duty, Honor, Country" code of ethics and fell on a sword, and was forced out of the USAF/ANG without his second star.
The book is: "Rotors in the Sand" for anyone interested. Sadly, Don died shortly after its publication.

A fine gentleman; a man of honor.
 
Good info above.
The military tracks airframes and components. In some cases there are hour meters, digital or analogue. In other cases they go by “flying hours”, the hours from takeoff to shut down (normally).
The V-22 initially had some issues, which isn’t surprising for a radically new airframe.
Since the initial development, however, it seems to be doing well.
Not that it is related to this accident, but the military in general has not seemed to learn about the “Waddington Effect”. Basically, this dispels the myth that more maintenance is better. Maintenance introduces human weakness and failing and often leads to more problems than it solves.
This is not to say maintenance is bad. It’s like surgery. Sometimes it’s necessary. But we don’t say to a 65 year old, “Your knee and hips have hit their time limit so we’re going to replace them even though they work fine.” As a commander it frustrated me to tears to see a perfectly good airframe go into phase where it was stripped down, and turned into a dog.
I am NOT saying this in any way was responsible for this crash. The accident investigation will be professional. This is just the random ramblings of a pilot after a few beers at an overnight.
My heart breaks for the loved ones. “There but for the grace of God go I.” My prayer before every flight, “God, don’t let me screw the pooch. If I do, let it only harm me.”

The Origins of Predictive Maintenance

The origins of predictive maintenance (PdM) begin with condition-based maintenance, which many attribute to CH Waddington.
www.mariner-usa.com
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top