A Dilemma

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I think the Academy provides very good religious development. It provides numerous ways to either start, resume, and/or enhance your faith journey. At the same time there is no pressure to pursue a religion. Additionally, it also provides a realistic depiction of the Fleet in the sense that there can't be any official content that is religious in nature (outside of Chaplain related things and stuff like public prayers such as those done over the 1MC... or the PA for the land types a and at Noon Meal at USNA). Some people will have Bible verses in their email, but those are typically fine since they are attributed to the individual and not the command. Boards that have religious themes or verses are typically taken down since they are visible in public spaces and could be taken as the Academy endorsing a specific religion.

For the OP: the vaccine is a DoD mandate as previously indicated. The military is pretty good about religious accommodations with the caveat that that the accommodation cannot affect readiness. The vaccine is viewed as a medical readiness item (can't fight the good fight when 1/3 of the unit is down and out for a couple weeks). There will be times that there will be orders that you won't agree with, but that's how the military works. On the religious transformation side, I became a stronger Catholic from USNA. I entered as a lukewarm Catholic after being one of those kids who got dragged to Mass every Sunday growing up. Luckily, the Lord surrounded me with a great faith community and gave me enough adversity to make the sprint back toward Him.

For all applicants/current mids: The religious opportunities available on the Yard are better than the Fleet. Usually, the chaplain staff is less in number for comparatively more people. As a result, they are harder to track down. Also, less denominations are represented. It seems USNA always has a Rabbi, Protestant ministers, and Catholic priests. The Fleet will only have one or two denominations. There are also multiple facilities at at USNA (prayer rooms, the Chapel, the Levy Center) and multiple religious clubs. Fleet bases usually have a chapel and that's about it. Religious activity availability varies. As a result, I have found it takes a bit more planning and effort to sustain your faith life post graduation.

My recommendation to all the new ENS and 2ndLts is to reach out to those who you know ahead of you in your respective religious communities. They can help you integrate into a religious community at your next duty station. For me, I had a buddy who was Catholic who was ahead of me by a couple years. I ended up following him to Pensacola and he helped me get in touch with a solid Bible Study and a great parish. My Bible Study has become a big chunk of my friend group down in Pensacola. If anyone is looking for a solid Catholic young adult community and parish, PM me.

For any parents reading this: Chaplains in the military do not simply exist to facilitate religious services of their chosen denominations. They also serve as the religious advisor to the commanding officer, facilitate services outside their religion/denomination, and serve as counselors for anything and everything. Chaplains are privileged communications so they are a great resource for mental health. They can't say anything to the command. You don't have to be religious to go see one. Just as you can be Buddhist and see a Catholic priest if you have religious concern or are trying to find local services.
 
Usnavy2019 said:
I think the Academy provides very good religious development. It provides numerous ways to either start, resume, and/or enhance your faith journey. At the same time there is no pressure to pursue a religion. Additionally, it also provides a realistic depiction of the Fleet in the sense that there can't be any official content that is religious in nature (outside of Chaplain related things and stuff like public prayers such as those done over the 1MC... or the PA for the land types a and at Noon Meal at USNA). Some people will have Bible verses in their email, but those are typically fine since they are attributed to the individual and not the command. Boards that have religious themes or verses are typically taken down since they are visible in public spaces and could be taken as the Academy endorsing a specific religion.

For the OP: the vaccine is a DoD mandate as previously indicated. The military is pretty good about religious accommodations with the caveat that that the accommodation cannot affect readiness. The vaccine is viewed as a medical readiness item (can't fight the good fight when 1/3 of the unit is down and out for a couple weeks). There will be times that there will be orders that you won't agree with, but that's how the military works. On the religious transformation side, I became a stronger Catholic from USNA. I entered as a lukewarm Catholic after being one of those kids who got dragged to Mass every Sunday growing up. Luckily, the Lord surrounded me with a great faith community and gave me enough adversity to make the sprint back toward Him.

For all applicants/current mids: The religious opportunities available on the Yard are better than the Fleet. Usually, the chaplain staff is less in number for comparatively more people. As a result, they are harder to track down. Also, less denominations are represented. It seems USNA always has a Rabbi, Protestant ministers, and Catholic priests. The Fleet will only have one or two denominations. There are also multiple facilities at at USNA (prayer rooms, the Chapel, the Levy Center) and multiple religious clubs. Fleet bases usually have a chapel and that's about it. Religious activity availability varies. As a result, I have found it takes a bit more planning and effort to sustain your faith life post graduation.

My recommendation to all the new ENS and 2ndLts is to reach out to those who you know ahead of you in your respective religious communities. They can help you integrate into a religious community at your next duty station. For me, I had a buddy who was Catholic who was ahead of me by a couple years. I ended up following him to Pensacola and he helped me get in touch with a solid Bible Study and a great parish. My Bible Study has become a big chunk of my friend group down in Pensacola. If anyone is looking for a solid Catholic young adult community and parish, PM me.

For any parents reading this: Chaplains in the military do not simply exist to facilitate religious services of their chosen denominations. They also serve as the religious advisor to the commanding officer, facilitate services outside their religion/denomination, and serve as counselors for anything and everything. Chaplains are privileged communications so they are a great resource for mental health. They can't say anything to the command. You don't have to be religious to go see one. Just as you can be Buddhist and see a Catholic priest if you have religious concern or are trying to find local services.
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Superb reply from deck plate experience! A great picture of the multi-faceted role of chaplains. I always loved the fact the rabbis looked after Muslim midshipmen in terms of ensuring their dietary needs were met during required fasting periods and other holiday special requirements, if a chaplain from the Islamic faith was not available.

I will say I believe the confidentiality applies unless there is credible danger to others or to the individual themselves.
 
Capt MJ said:
Military chaplains, love them. Regardless of faith group, just wonderful people who are called to serve in this way. I am still in touch with the rabbi who was the batt chaplain I worked with.
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I've had one shipmate chaplain who MAYBE didn't get the "chaplain to all" piece and was a bit less able to interact with the crew but he was pretty junior and I don't think he was in the Navy for long. The other side of the coin are guys like Rear Admiral "Blues" Baker who is the former head chaplain at USNA and the first USNA grad to make Admiral in the Chaplain corps. Blues is a wonderful person who helped me through a health crisis personally even though our religions are very different. He is retired from the (Active Duty) Navy now and works in the Stockdale Center for Leadership and Ethics at USNA.
I am proud to call him a classmate and friend. I'm pretty sure that Capt MJ will be along soon as I'm pretty sure she knows Blues and his wife as well.
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By the way, a candidate with religious type questions would be well served by a call to him no matter their religion as he "gets it".
 
OldRetSWO said:
I've had one shipmate chaplain who MAYBE didn't get the "chaplain to all" piece and was a bit less able to interact with the crew but he was pretty junior and I don't think he was in the Navy for long. The other side of the coin are guys like Rear Admiral "Blues" Baker who is the former head chaplain at USNA and the first USNA grad to make Admiral in the Chaplain corps. Blues is a wonderful person who helped me through a health crisis personally even though our religions are very different. He is retired from the (Active Duty) Navy now and works in the Stockdale Center for Leadership and Ethics at USNA.
I am proud to call him a classmate and friend. I'm pretty sure that Capt MJ will be along soon as I'm pretty sure she knows Blues and his wife as well.
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By the way, a candidate with religious type questions would be well served by a call to him no matter their religion as he "gets it".
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I love the "Chaplain to all" saying! I keep in touch with one of the Catholic Chaplains at USNA still and he still treats me like any other person under his care and guidance! Honestly, Chaplains can be underrated sometimes, but I view it as one of the highest callings in the military. They help us work on our problems and help us work toward inner peace before, after, and sometimes during our march toward chaos.
 
IamtheFred said:
Lately I have been torn.
I was recently invited to a candidate visit to USNA. However, a vaccine is required, and my family would prefer I do not get vaccinated. This whole situation has brought to light a complex predicament. Let me explain. I come from a very conservative, Roman Catholic family. My parents have expressed concern that going to one of the SAs will change me into being a more lax, liberal Catholic. The NA's mission statement state that their intent is to develop midshipmen, and my parents are concerned that the SAs will not develop me in a way that would be beneficial to my spiritual life. For several years the NA has been my dream, but now I'm wondering if I should reevaluate.
I hope that I have explained adequately and you understand my position.
Any advice, opinions, or viewpoints would be greatly appreciated.
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I won’t get into the vaccine debate, but joining the military will require one to participate in things that one may not want to do. This includes many scenarios. So that is the only disclaimer anyone needs to consider before volunteering to serve in our great armed forces.

Regarding faith and the support of ones faith at an SA, the support is there. Actually anything you can imagine needing support for is available at an SA. If you seek it you will find it.
DS is Catholic and was fortunate enough to have met the Supreme Knight on more than one occasion at WP and another location. His faith and spiritual opportunities grew while he was there.
The SAs are supportive to all denominations, and one can grow in their faith or stray from their faith at their own choosing, such is life.
Religious faith is something very individualized to each person. It is after all a relationship between yourself and God.
Parents must hope they have built a strong enough moral foundation for their kids to build from when they turn them loose in the world, regardless where life may take them.
Kids will often wander from the course their parents would hope for, but that is not the parents journey, but our child’s.
Best of luck to OP and stay strong.
 
You need to talk this out with your parents. From your post, it could be (among other things):
  1. some objection to a vaccination that will likely be mandatory wherever you go next,
  2. a general desire for you not to enter military service, or
  3. the first time your parents had to confront the fact that you're moving away to college soon, with all that entails.
You need to understand what is at the bottom of their objections and face it squarely. However, there is no reason why you can't pursue a military commission, get a quality education, and be a faithful Roman Catholic.
  1. Whether I agree with it or not, your choices regarding the vaccine are limited. I'm not arguing theories or complication rates or civil liberties or anything about how it "should" be.
    1. Service members are getting vaccinated. You get an order; you fall in line. Yes, there is litigation, reluctance and objection regarding the vaccine. I'll give you one guess how it is going to turn out. If USNA (or any military service) is your dream, you have a decision to make.
    2. But let's say you give up your dream and go to a civilian university instead. Are you only going to apply to schools that don't have a mandate? What will you do after you are admitted, if the school you choose then implements a mandate? Nobody can predict the future of this pandemic, and laws and policies change all the time. Here is a reasonably up-to-date list of colleges requiring vaccination, including Notre Dame, several Loyolas, and many other Catholic-affiliated schools: Take a look: https://universitybusiness.com/state-by-state-look-at-colleges-requiring-vaccines/. What is your plan B? Then what will you do when that out-of-state or overseas internship or study opportunity comes up requiring vaccination? I'm not saying there aren't answers -- but you'd better think through any idea of limiting your educational choices based upon a shot.
  2. Religious objections to the military? Are you familiar with Just War doctrine? It goes back to St. Augustine. It's in the catechism of the Church. Wikipedia can get you started. Understand the teachings of your professed faith.
  3. Many young adults fall away from the faith in which they were raised; it is their choice. If you choose to remain a faithful Roman Catholic, you will be able to find support wherever you go. In my limited experience, the support you receive from military chaplains will likely be stronger and more accessible than at nearly all universities -- even the outwardly "Catholic" ones. If you choose to fall away, you'll be able to do that too.
For what it's worth, DS is at USMA. He is a practicing, not "lax, liberal" Catholic and an active member of the Knights of Columbus (the KCs are also at USNA). It can be done, and many do it.

Think it through. Then have that talk.
 
IamtheFred said:
Lately I have been torn.
I was recently invited to a candidate visit to USNA. However, a vaccine is required, and my family would prefer I do not get vaccinated. This whole situation has brought to light a complex predicament. Let me explain. I come from a very conservative, Roman Catholic family. My parents have expressed concern that going to one of the SAs will change me into being a more lax, liberal Catholic. The NA's mission statement state that their intent is to develop midshipmen, and my parents are concerned that the SAs will not develop me in a way that would be beneficial to my spiritual life. For several years the NA has been my dream, but now I'm wondering if I should reevaluate.
I hope that I have explained adequately and you understand my position.
Any advice, opinions, or viewpoints would be greatly appreciated.
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I got the exact same email you did and came here looking for some information on the subject. Luckily the vaccine mandate is not an issue to me. All I can say is that USNA is not going to get in the way of you pursuing your religion, so if the NA is where you really want to go, you shouldn’t let your religion get in the way of you pursuing that. Plus, as aforementioned, a vaccine is going to start being necessary for lots of things. May as well get it done for something you really care about. Hope I can see you there!
 
IamtheFred said:
Lately I have been torn.
I was recently invited to a candidate visit to USNA. However, a vaccine is required, and my family would prefer I do not get vaccinated. This whole situation has brought to light a complex predicament. Let me explain. I come from a very conservative, Roman Catholic family. My parents have expressed concern that going to one of the SAs will change me into being a more lax, liberal Catholic. The NA's mission statement state that their intent is to develop midshipmen, and my parents are concerned that the SAs will not develop me in a way that would be beneficial to my spiritual life. For several years the NA has been my dream, but now I'm wondering if I should reevaluate.
I hope that I have explained adequately and you understand my position.
Any advice, opinions, or viewpoints would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Let's see here. I was (my own term) a good old fashioned Southern Baptist Roman Catholic (Gulf coast Catholic from Lower Alabama, raised in a strict Southern Baptist community. 12 years of Catholic School, mass 8 days a week, all the observations, stations of the cross, first 9 Fridays, could do a rosary in 3:42, and just about the biggest religious bigot I could be. Vaccines evil, movies evil, homosexuals evil, Jews evil, Muslims evil, communists evil, everything was the devil. I'm not criticizing your parents, just letting you know where I came from. Heck, I'm probably old enough to be one of your parent's parents.

Let's dissect your concerns.
1. Vax - just go get the damn thing. If you want to go military, you WILL get the covid vax, and probably a few others, including experimental ones (like the experimental anthrax vax I had to take years ago). You'll also have your DNA catalogued, whether you believe in such things or not.

2. Your parents' fear you might step off the straight and narrow, and maybe become one of those Catholics who satisfy their weekly obligation on Saturday evenings! Or get married and practice birth control. Or become a Christmas and Easter Catholic. Or marry a Methodist and become a Methodist yourself. Yeah, I've heard them all.

Not intending this to be an assault on any religion, or religion in general, but education and experience are religion's greatest fears. My Muslim colleague asks if we can stop somewhere with a restroom for 5 minutes so he can do his mid day Muslim thing? Sure, he waited patiently while I had my cigarette earlier, didn't he? And those evil soviets? The government was communist, not the soldiers - they were farm boys just like me. And that guy I knew all my life who just "came out"? You were never in the closet bud - we all knew (and didn't care, and didn't think you were going to hell). A lot of living around the world has taught me most of what I once believed was wrong, or at best, not the only way to think about a thing.

I will guarantee you a military career will make you a more tolerant, open minded individual. If that is going to make you a bad Catholic (in your opinion), maybe it's not for you. Ultimately, you have to live your own life and make your own decisions.
 
I don’t see that the OP raised any concerns as far as their own religion or personal religious views

This appears to be a parent issue for the OP not a religion issue. And the parents don’t want the OP at a SA or in the military.

and if something like a vaccine does conflict with the parents religious views then going to a SA in fact means that their child is taking a path they do not want their child to take.

And the parents could be correct——-their child could come out of the SA experience with values not the same as the parents values.

and now the OP wonders if they should continue to follow their own life long dream of a SA or should they follow their parents dream for them?

If after reflection it’s a truly tough decision to make for the OP then maybe a SA is not the place for them.
 
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Small Team Bacsi said:
I don’t see that the OP raised any concerns as far as their own religion or personal religious views

This appears to be a parent issue for the OP not a religion issue. And the parents don’t want the OP at a SA or in the military.

and if something like a vaccine does conflict with the parents religious views then going to a SA in fact means that their child is taking a path they do not want their child to take.

And the parents could be correct——-their child could come out of the SA experience with values not the same as the parents values.

and now the OP wonders if they should continue to follow their own life long dream of a SA or should they follow their parents dream for them?

If after reflection it’s a truly tough decision to make for the OP then maybe a SA is not the place for them.
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yep, that's what I said. This isn't a vaccine or religion issue. It's a "I don't want my baby in the military" issue.
 
And this is the same young person that can’t play sports because of the parents forbidding it.

My guess is that the parents will find lots about the SA experience they absolutely do not agree with and do not want for their child.
 
IamtheFred said:
For several years the NA has been my dream, but now I'm wondering if I should reevaluate.
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You’ve received a lot of advice and stirred up some passions. And that’s OK! Another angle to consider: You mention only that you’ve been invited to visit USNA, but make no mention of a deep desire to serve as a commissioned officer.

If that deep desire does exist, then as an adult-to-be, you may have to accept the fact that your parents may not accept it. It’s tough to serve in the military without family support, but many have done it because it’s indeed a calling or otherwise a necessity for them. So if you truly want to serve, once you turn 18 you don’t need your parents’ permission.

That may mean deferring your SA application until you’re legally emancipated. It may mean attending civilian college while doing ROTC (research the scholarships). It may mean attending civilian college and then doing OCS afterward. In the interim, perhaps you’ll find ways to influence your parents and help them see your choice in a more favorable light.
 
And this all could be parents having a hard time letting you go. But, at some point, you need to fly with your own wings…no matter what your parents want, or don’t want, you to do.
 
My daughter went to a private Christian HS. She got a LOT of spiritual and faith development time between school, home and church. On our first call with her this summer she commented that she's accountable for her own spiritual journey now, and it's such a great feeling of independence and ownership. She attended church on the yard every Sunday, met some great kids from other companies, and joined the Officers Christian Fellowship. She just spent the weekend in DC with one of those kids she met at church. USNA gives mids lots of opportunities to grow in their faith...and OWN it.
 
I was worried about my DS attending USNA and how his spiritual life would be impacted. But note that I had the same worry when he was considering his other non-SA choices as well.

He was raised a Lutheran and I was concerned as the Chaplains at the USNA leaned more general protestant. However his experience has been absolutely wonderful with the Chapel staff. Even during PS, he attended church every Sunday except one when he was in isolation for the Plebe Hack. Since the start of the AC year he has continued to attend. He was even recruited to read and acolyte.

The MIDN are all allowed to practice their religion and are allotted time as such. They are allowed to have a Bible or similar religious book throughout their time at SA. He has not experienced any sort of hazing or punishment due to his religion.

On another note, I have a college buddy who is a Army (Go Navy) Chaplain. He has been deployed many times, often being the only Chaplain available. Even as Lutheran Chaplain, he has presided over other religious ceremonies as the need arises.
 
OldAFRet said:
Let's see here. I was (my own term) a good old fashioned Southern Baptist Roman Catholic (Gulf coast Catholic from Lower Alabama, raised in a strict Southern Baptist community. 12 years of Catholic School, mass 8 days a week, all the observations, stations of the cross, first 9 Fridays, could do a rosary in 3:42, and just about the biggest religious bigot I could be. Vaccines evil, movies evil, homosexuals evil, Jews evil, Muslims evil, communists evil, everything was the devil. I'm not criticizing your parents, just letting you know where I came from. Heck, I'm probably old enough to be one of your parent's parents.

Let's dissect your concerns.
1. Vax - just go get the damn thing. If you want to go military, you WILL get the covid vax, and probably a few others, including experimental ones (like the experimental anthrax vax I had to take years ago). You'll also have your DNA catalogued, whether you believe in such things or not.

2. Your parents' fear you might step off the straight and narrow, and maybe become one of those Catholics who satisfy their weekly obligation on Saturday evenings! Or get married and practice birth control. Or become a Christmas and Easter Catholic. Or marry a Methodist and become a Methodist yourself. Yeah, I've heard them all.

Not intending this to be an assault on any religion, or religion in general, but education and experience are religion's greatest fears. My Muslim colleague asks if we can stop somewhere with a restroom for 5 minutes so he can do his mid day Muslim thing? Sure, he waited patiently while I had my cigarette earlier, didn't he? And those evil soviets? The government was communist, not the soldiers - they were farm boys just like me. And that guy I knew all my life who just "came out"? You were never in the closet bud - we all knew (and didn't care, and didn't think you were going to hell). A lot of living around the world has taught me most of what I once believed was wrong, or at best, not the only way to think about a thing.

I will guarantee you a military career will make you a more tolerant, open minded individual. If that is going to make you a bad Catholic (in your opinion), maybe it's not for you. Ultimately, you have to live your own life and make your own decisions.
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Totally agree, but I think this goes WELL beyond military or a service academy. This is about the parents' fear of the real world and all the evils and pitfalls it contains for Jr, and how their dreams of the perfect life for child could be shattered by external temptations or brainwashing.

If they also wont allow the OP to play team sports, (from previous threads) I cannot think of a single school (or profession other than priest) that would alleviate their fears. 95+% of all colleges now have moved away from extremely conservative religious doctrine. There are a few Baptist ones in the south, so I imagine there are one or two RC versions somewhere. I just don't know which or where.

OP, you have to decide for yourself whether you want to live in fear of falling victim of external persuasion that weakens your soul, or whether you feel strong enough to jump in the lion's den, whatever or wherever that may end up being, and live your best life. And, of course, as others have pointed out, decide if military service is what you want and feel a calling.

And I had to laugh at #2... As a Methodist, I was once told by a friend's father that its like I don't go to church at all.
 
IamtheFred said:
Lately I have been torn.
I was recently invited to a candidate visit to USNA. However, a vaccine is required, and my family would prefer I do not get vaccinated. This whole situation has brought to light a complex predicament. Let me explain. I come from a very conservative, Roman Catholic family. My parents have expressed concern that going to one of the SAs will change me into being a more lax, liberal Catholic. The NA's mission statement state that their intent is to develop midshipmen, and my parents are concerned that the SAs will not develop me in a way that would be beneficial to my spiritual life. For several years the NA has been my dream, but now I'm wondering if I should reevaluate.
I hope that I have explained adequately and you understand my position.
Any advice, opinions, or viewpoints would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

I've never known the military to be considered a bastion of liberal thinking. Do military people strike you as "lax?" They tend to be more disciplined than their civilian counterparts.

I have an observation, some advice and a viewpoint:

OBSERVATION - Your parents do not understand the military very well.

ADVICE - Do what you want - not what your parents want.

VIEWPOINT - Asking strangers for advice via social media is not a good way to go. You understand your unique family dynamics far more than any of us.
 
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