My son being recruited for football by both. Can they be compared to each other? Son leaning toward the Point but the "elites" tend to disparage the Academies academics. We are awed by W.P./Navy. Are the IVYs a step above?
I am a West Point grad, and my wife, sister, and uncle are Ivy league graduates. Obviously I come at this discussion from both sides.
Are the academics at Yale or Harvard, in total, better than the academies? Yes, they are. We must consider that academics are essentially their only mission. That is what they do, and they do it very well and with the full resources of a post-graduate university system at their disposal.
So are the academics better? Yes, in many subjects. Certainly not in engineering. Is the education better? That's the important question. I firmly believe the answer to be no.
My son not picking a place based on football but on the quality of education. He does not mind serving after graduation. The question is whether there is a difference in the quality of education, the marketability of the institution, etc.. Forbes loves the academies whereas Us News seems unimpressed.
Football is not a good reason to choose a service academy unless he's interested in being a military officer.
Growing up, Odierno never intended to make a career of the Army. He was a tight end on a championship football team at Morris Hills High School, and his love of sports led him to West Point, which recruited him to play football...
... His football career had been cut short by a knee injury but he pitched for the Army baseball team. He said he planned to serve five years and return to civilian life as an engineer. But he fell in love with the Army and with “being part of something greater than yourself.”
The catch: you do owe the Army a minimum of 8 years of your life after graduating (5AD +3 reserve). So I think that is what you really ought to focus on - is your son willing to make that committment? If so- my money is on USMA as providing a phenomenal all round education. If however he is not interested in the service as at least a 5 year post graduation commitment- then off to Harvard Square or New Haven or Hanover NH.On a recent Wednesday GE CEO Jeff Immelt traveled from the company's headquarters in Fairfield, Conn., to West Point, 45 miles up the Hudson River from New York City. Several hundred cadets wearing casual green camouflage uniforms filed into a lecture hall to hear Immelt give a speech he called "Renewing American Leadership."
Immelt began by citing a recent Gallup poll in which Americans were asked to rank their confidence in various institutions. The military received the highest marks, with an 82% approval rating, whereas less than 20% of Americans expressed confidence in big business or Congress. "People have lost faith in many big institutions," he said.
The CEO told the cadets that GE had been doing its own soul-searching. In view of the economic turmoil of the past couple of years, he and his team had been studying what attributes of leadership would be important for the future. Twenty-first-century leaders, Immelt said, need to be better listeners. They need to be comfortable with complexity. And they must be willing to delegate so that the organization can move quickly.
GE has cultivated a close relationship with the academy, bringing in the head of West Point's leadership program, Col. Tom Kolditz, to teach at Crotonville. After Immelt was done speaking, I asked him what intrigued him about military leadership. "Dealing with ambiguity," he replied. "That's something that I think the military is quite good at. Tom and his team here are willing to be incredibly introspective, to challenge paradigms. And I find that to be quite compelling."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/04/news/companies/military_business_leaders.fortune/
My son not picking a place based on football but on the quality of education. He does not mind serving after graduation. The question is whether there is a difference in the quality of education, the marketability of the institution, etc.. Forbes loves the academies whereas Us News seems unimpressed.
First - I think the Ivy Schools and service academies are the top of the US education "ladder". You can not go wrong going to either place.
I graduated from West Pont and have an advanced degree from an Ivy school.
If you are concerned solely about academics, then the Ivy is probably just a tiny bit better. If you are looking for all around development, leadership training, and building character, I think the service academies are far better.
However, if you do not have a passion to go to West Point look elsewhere. West Point and the Army are a way of life - not just an education institution or opportunity.
"Elites" - perhaps the Ivy schools definition of themselves, will always look downward at others - that is a part of being in an Ivy school. In my biased view - West Pointers are the "real" elites although they tend to be muct more humble than their Ivy counterparts
My son being recruited for football by both. Can they be compared to each other? Son leaning toward the Point but the "elites" tend to disparage the Academies academics. We are awed by W.P./Navy. Are the IVYs a step above?
About half of the value from attending a school is derived from the quality of the fellow students. There are a few ways of understanding the academic quality -- SAT/ACT is one, the quality of the written essays is another (this is essentially unpublishable data), GPA is another.What I don't get is how the academics are better at an Ivy vs an Academy.
About half of the value from attending a school is derived from the quality of the fellow students. There are a few ways of understanding the academic quality -- SAT/ACT is one, the quality of the written essays is another (this is essentially unpublishable data), GPA is another.
HYP: ave 2 part SAT: 1485
Academy: 1285
You might argue that the SAT doesn't measure academic ability, or intelligence, but I think it does.
I believe the average student at an Ivy (the others range in 2 part SAT from 1465 to 1440) allows the professors to teach at a level entirely above what a Professor can deliver at a school (any school, not just an Academy) with 1285 SAT scorers. It is the difference between a regular course at High School and an AP course. Same subject matter, but one covers twice the material at twice the depth.
Then take the lunch and dinner meals. I had the pleasure of studying at both UCLA and Stanford. You would think the two schools were on different planets if you were to listen in to what the students talked about in their free time. UCLA = Academy, Stanford = Ivy.
Another factor is the limited amount of time given to Mids/Cadets to study outside of class. An Academy student is going 100 miles an hour all day, but a lot of that is not academic activity -- it is about physical fitness, team building, leadership, and military capability. There is only so much that can be done in a 24 hour day, and all those other goals of the Academy would necessarily suffer if academics were given 16 hours per day.
As to which offers a better EDUCATION, or which prepares a student better for the following sixty years of their life... that is indeed an important question. The Academies have lots of mids/cadets who chose them over HYPSM, Caltech, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, etc..
learned or scholarly but lacking in worldliness, common sense, or practicality.
gsfiharis
I know exactly what you are going through. My son is in the Class of 2015 and we went through a similar experience last year. My son had a Presidential nomination, got his file completed early, got one of the first LOAs, and got a very early Offer Letter from WP (October). My son really wanted West Point but his mother INSISTED that he look at other opportunities. A reasonable procedure. He did not immediately accept the WP offer (you have until May 1). My son then got a 4-year ROTC scholorship and was accepted at two Ivy schools.
I totally understand that the family wants the best for their son and wants to "lead" them in the right direction. That is our responsibility. However, I think many people over-analyze the selection process. However, in my view the family needs to not "pressure" or "take charge" of the selection process and let the candidate decide. Your son has several good choices - he can not go wrong. However, the important thing is where does his heart tell him to go. My advice - let him make the decision and do not look back.
One observation - the military and leadership training at the normal ROTC program does not compare to the West Point experience.
This statement concerns me a little.He does not mind serving after graduation.