Accepted after five cycles of admissions to USMA. I'm a senior in ROTC who would start over.

VelveteenR said:
The difference between the subject of the podcast and the OP is that the podcast subject paid to attend Northwestern prep on his own prior to his admission to USNA. He was not contracted to ROTC and not on the verge of commission:

My intention was "kindred spirit" for the OP, I found the interview interesting. Many differences in specifics.
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the term "deferring commissioning" keeps getting thrown around, mistakenly in my view

if the OP graduated and somehow got approval to go off on Morman mission for a year, or join the Peace Corp for a year then come back and commission, then that would be "deferring commissioning".

but completing the 4 year ROTC course, and not accepting the commission that has been earned, then starting over at WP is not "deferring" anything. it would be 'erasing' the 4 years of ROTC, and starting from square one with all the other plebes. after completing 4 years, there would be a new "commission", earned at WP, not the one that was left at ROTC.

as a plebe, the OP would have more Army experience as an officer trainee, has more experience in training the lower classes than the first class cadets running Beast. This is not the same as prior enlisted cadets, who might have years of Army experience, but have not been in an officer program.

i'm not judging, and i wish the OP well, but in the first post, the OP asked for 'clarity' and 'guidance' which is what is intended here
 
A6E Dad said:
but completing the 4 year ROTC course, and not accepting the commission that has been earned,
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Is there a choice to accept, OP is contracted cadet. I thought the choice is over after the freshman year.
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
I've been accepted to the Class of 2024, and after five classes have passed me by, I'm finally in. Only problem is I'm a senior in ROTC who will, by contract, commission after the spring semester is over. I've received the letter to report, but I'm not sure if they'll let me out of my commission. From the grapevine and other threads, I've seen that once I get an appointment, my ROTC contract in null and void. I need guidance, and this is the best place to look. Please no one lecture me on my decision, and only provide clarity. I promised someone very special to me who has passed away I'd get in and succeed among numerous other reasons to attend. USMA has long been a dream of mine, and not one person can change my mind. For me, it's entirely worth the extra minuscule four years. Thank you for any guidance, and I apologize for being crass with the latter.
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I don't have an answer to your question, but I'm sorry so many people chose to ignore your post and lecture you about their opinion on the advisability and ethics of your choice. The criticism has been outright hostile by some. This is the danger in seeking advice on the internet - you get responses from people who come to the table with a whole plateful of garbage - including some who who are outright hostile to your academy of choice. Now you have the most vocal critic of your plan tattling to RC's and ROTC staff about your situation in what seems like an attempt to scuttle your appointment.

My suggestion is you work with the WP staff about how to handle the ROTC situation, and stay off the internet. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Korab said:
I don't have an answer to your question, but I'm sorry so many people chose to ignore your post and lecture you about their opinion on the advisability and ethics of your choice. The criticism has been outright hostile by some. This is the danger in seeking advice on the internet - you get responses from people who come to the table with a whole plateful of garbage - including some who who are outright hostile to your academy of choice. Now you have the most vocal critic of your plan tattling to RC's and ROTC staff about your situation in what seems like an attempt to scuttle your appointment.

My suggestion is you work with the WP staff about how to handle the ROTC situation, and stay off the internet. I wish you the best of luck.
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+1
 
If two parties renegotiate a contract, the terms of the new contract supersede the terms of the original contract.
  • Under the terms of the new contract, the OP will not commission, nor be eligible for a commission, until graduation from USMA.
  • Undoubtedly, there are terms in the new contract that protect the Army's investment, just as the Army protects its investment when enlisted soldiers receive appointments.
  • The Army determined the relative benefits of allowing the OP to enter USMA rather than commission and decided USMA was the best course for the OP and the Army; perhaps the OP's relentless pursuit of an appointment factored into this decision.
  • As an ROTC Cadet, the OP would have been required to have a recommendation from his ROTC PMS and USMA admissions would be well aware of his status. There is no dishonor in pursuing a dream when all parties are fully informed.
Advice to OP: There are only two people you should be talking to regarding this - your RC and your ROTC PMS
 
I do hope to hear how this all ends up. I would be curious to see how ROTC handles this. I know in the past several of the services have waived contracts for Cadets or Mids who have completed a year or two in ROTC, but never seen this situation before.
 
Incredible story- thanks for sharing! I've been denied a medical waiver, but your story gives me hope for next year. Best of luck!
 
I applaud you for not giving up on your dream! As a mom who's DD just received the dreaded TWE, I can't imagine getting on this emotional roller coaster 5 times! She is going to reapply next year for the class of 2025. What advice would you give to her based on your experience?
 
ArmybornArmyproud said:
I applaud you for not giving up on your dream! As a mom who's DD just received the dreaded TWE, I can't imagine getting on this emotional roller coaster 5 times! She is going to reapply next year for the class of 2025. What advice would you give to her based on your experience?
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As a recently appointed candidate to the Class of 2024, I would tell your daughter that if this what she really wants, stick with it. I didn't get in last year and i'm now completing a year at AROTC. The experience you receive from not going to a SA right away will only benefit you when you actually get to attend a SA. In terms of advice, retake the SAT or ACT to see if you can get a higher score, pursue leadership positions at whatever college she decides to attend, and just stay committed. Keep working hard and WP will notice. Best of luck to your daughter!
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
I've been accepted to the Class of 2024, and after five classes have passed me by, I'm finally in. Only problem is I'm a senior in ROTC who will, by contract, commission after the spring semester is over. I've received the letter to report, but I'm not sure if they'll let me out of my commission. From the grapevine and other threads, I've seen that once I get an appointment, my ROTC contract in null and void. I need guidance, and this is the best place to look. Please no one lecture me on my decision, and only provide clarity. I promised someone very special to me who has passed away I'd get in and succeed among numerous other reasons to attend. USMA has long been a dream of mine, and not one person can change my mind. For me, it's entirely worth the extra minuscule four years. Thank you for any guidance, and I apologize for being crass with the latter.
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Any updated from the OP? This topic has spurred great conversation in our house, debating pros and cons back and forth, and we are all curious what the status is.
 
I'm no parent and I have no Army experience but I got into the class of 2024 this year on my first try and getting in after 5 cycles is really something else. I've heard of someone who did 3 and switched but 5 is just crazy, you're practically a second lieutenant and you're probably dozens of times more qualified and experienced than me at this point. I thought I was crazy about West Point too but I've come to realize that it doesn't make me more special than anyone else and this puts it into perspective. West Point will probably be a breeze to you, all things considered, and if you're willing to spend eight total years in training to become an officer then all the power to you. I've heard that prior soldiers handle CBT better than completely new cadets do. I'm personally more worried about how I'm going to manage my time and sleep and keep up with classes. I guess you should just do what your heart tells you to do.
 
jl123 said:
If two parties renegotiate a contract, the terms of the new contract supersede the terms of the original contract.
  • Under the terms of the new contract, the OP will not commission, nor be eligible for a commission, until graduation from USMA.
  • Undoubtedly, there are terms in the new contract that protect the Army's investment, just as the Army protects its investment when enlisted soldiers receive appointments.
  • The Army determined the relative benefits of allowing the OP to enter USMA rather than commission and decided USMA was the best course for the OP and the Army; perhaps the OP's relentless pursuit of an appointment factored into this decision.
  • As an ROTC Cadet, the OP would have been required to have a recommendation from his ROTC PMS and USMA admissions would be well aware of his status. There is no dishonor in pursuing a dream when all parties are fully informed.
Advice to OP: There are only two people you should be talking to regarding this - your RC and your ROTC PMS
Click to expand...
jl123 said:
If two parties renegotiate a contract, the terms of the new contract supersede the terms of the original contract.
  • Under the terms of the new contract, the OP will not commission, nor be eligible for a commission, until graduation from USMA.
  • Undoubtedly, there are terms in the new contract that protect the Army's investment, just as the Army protects its investment when enlisted soldiers receive appointments.
  • The Army determined the relative benefits of allowing the OP to enter USMA rather than commission and decided USMA was the best course for the OP and the Army; perhaps the OP's relentless pursuit of an appointment factored into this decision.
  • As an ROTC Cadet, the OP would have been required to have a recommendation from his ROTC PMS and USMA admissions would be well aware of his status. There is no dishonor in pursuing a dream when all parties are fully informed.
Advice to OP: There are only two people you should be talking to regarding this - your RC and your ROTC PMS
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@From A Family of Enlisted we are close to commissioning/graduation dates. How did this go for you? The contractual/commissioning piece with your unit? Did you have to drop your program?

This was a fascinating situation. So very curious the answer to your original question (no debating the reasons or choices made) and how it all worked out.
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
Obviously I know there are people who are less than honorable who attend, I'd be naive to think otherwise, however those people are certainly in the minority. With that logic, why are there even service academies if you're not to have a certain pedigree or resume? That's pretty ridiculous that you believe that the academy isn't there for more than commissioning officers. If you don't think there's a certain pedigree about the cadets, why do thousands apply when they can apply to Harvard or Princeton and go through ROTC? Your very one sided argument theorizes that while my main goal is to be an officer, yes of course, that's why I've done ROTC, but to go to West Point is the very same route and the very same credential and toil towards achieving that goal. It takes a smarter, more physical, more motivated, and a course of adversity that ROTC and OCS can't offer and throw at a a young man.
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Buckle down and strap in - this is a long one.

Let's focus on two things in this statement:

First, if you really want to see who goes where when it comes to USMA vs Harvard/Princeton, use parchment's cross-comparison tool. You'll see that a majority of dual admits choosing the Ivy's over USMA. Sure, some admits perhaps never wanted to join the Army and chose accordingly. In a way though, getting a 4-year ROTC scholarship and going to an Ivy is just as difficult as getting into USMA. First, you must jump through the hoops of getting into an Ivy (good grades, good SAT scores, etc.). Then you need a 4-year (at least in order for me to attend) scholarship. In 2018-2019, roughly 750 4-year scholarships were awarded. In terms of nominations, that process is basically like a college application-you just have to hope that you are the best in the district/state.

From AROTC-dad (thank you)
"From the UNG website:
For the academic year 2018-2019, more than 7,000 high school senior applications for the scholarship were reviewed.
About 3,000 applicants were awarded a scholarship. About 25% of those were 4-year scholarships and 75% were 3-year scholarships."

I, personally, decided against USMA (after going through the whole process, including the BFE) and have chosen to attend a T10 university. In my eyes, I only get 4 years to explore, relax, and have fun. I can develop myself academically, physically, and morally. I did this for my own reasons. Your "thousands" come from those who apply to both institutions, but which one do they choose? Could it be that, in your eyes, the apple is shinier than the orange?

This brings me to my second point. Does my decision make me any less of a person? Will I forever be limited as an officer in the Army? No; I will commission just like every other officer. Do you think Colin Powell, Charles Beckwith, or Mark Milley were limited by their lack of "adversity?" Do you think that they were bested by USMA grads that were "smarter, more physical, more motivated?" West Point's mission is to create officers. That's what is said in the admissions briefings; that's what is said here. What do you aspire to be in life? An officer, or a cadet?

Ultimately, it's your choice; just don't get angry when you're saluting a cadet 3-4 years younger than you and following their orders.
 
We used to ski every spring break at Park City. After landing in SLC, we’d stop first at an excellent Mexican restaurant. On their eclectic front door, there were numerous bumper stickers plastered haphazardly. My favorite one said, “Probably Made in China.” Yeah...probably.
 
MidCakePa said:
We used to ski every spring break at Park City. After landing in SLC, we’d stop first at an excellent Mexican restaurant. On their eclectic front door, there were numerous bumper stickers plastered haphazardly. My favorite one said, “Probably Made in China.” Yeah...probably.
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Park City’s now connected to Canyons under EPIC. Did you ever ski Deer Valley?
 
We're devoted Canyons people: twice the territory, half the crowds vs. Park City. Very laid back ambience. Kids considered it "our mountain."

Did try Deer Valley and it was not for us. A bit too ritzy, stiff and antiseptic. And no sign of Robert Redford.
 
Or didn’t want to find it.
[/QUOTE]
If I ever have a statue at USMA it will be right behind his as we are running away from it to go spin Sedgewick's Spurs (which worked for 67% of the three of us that did that night)
 
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