Admissions Consultants

[MemberLG]

They're also called AAPs (Academy Admissions Partners) at USCGA, and AFRs (Admissions Field Representatives) at USMMA, and (shocker) they do the same things.

SA admissions office volunteers are hit or miss. Many cases of great ones to not being available in the area?

What separates a SA Admissions Office volunteer from a SA consultant?

For me (FFR), I don't tell me them what to do, rather strongly advise.
If asked to review their essays, I read them and ask some general questions.
I answer all question related to the application process or get answers for the admissions office if I don't know the answer.
Since I served on various nomination panels, I inform candidates about the nomination process.

 

[Luigi59]

SA admissions office volunteers are hit or miss. Many cases of great ones to not being available in the area?

What separates a SA Admissions Office volunteer from a SA consultant?

For me (FFR), I don't tell me them what to do, rather strongly advise.
If asked to review their essays, I read them and ask some general questions.
I answer all question related to the application process or get answers for the admissions office if I don't know the answer.
Since I served on various nomination panels, I inform candidates about the nomination process.

My comments (which you quoted) have nothing to do with the general worth (or not) of an admissions consultant vs a SA admissions volunteer.

They have to do with the omission of the many volunteers from the USCGA and USMMA who do the same thing as the volunteers of "the big three" yet were not cited in the quote I responded to.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Over a year ago, we were introduced to the negative connotation of "helicopter parenting".

We weren't introduced to the negative connotation of "helicopter parents," the negative aspects of overly involved parents (not just at service academies, although it's pretty bad) have been around for a very long time.... a year ago I just started the thread so we could talk about it.

Helicopter parenting is still bad.

 

[burnerafter16]

Whew, thought you're gonna claim to be the father of the Internet too
We-meaning our family was briefed on launching our college bound kids by a respectable ALO when we were navigating our way early into admission process over a year ago. I'm sure the thread was as interesting and had plenty of opinionated views. It's always educational and entertaining to come across perceptions other than our own.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Whew, thought you're gonna claim to be the father of the Internet too
We-meaning our family was briefed on launching our college bound kids by a respectable ALO when we were navigating our way early into admission process over a year ago. I'm sure the thread was as interesting and had plenty of opinionated views. It's always educational and entertaining to come across perceptions other than our own.

It was a very interesting read, still exists too. Check it out, has about 38,000 views, which is pretty good for SAF. Somehow it was never closed!

 

[MemberLG]

My comments (which you quoted) have nothing to do with the general worth (or not) of an admissions consultant vs a SA admissions volunteer.

They have to do with the omission of the many volunteers from the USCGA and USMMA who do the same thing as the volunteers of "the big three" yet were not cited in the quote I responded to.

apologize using your posting. I thought it was a lead to start a discussion about differences between SA admissions volunteers vs consultants.

 

[AF6872]

Agree with LITS.

Helicopter Partents through the college procedure and after is not a great idea. I think it may depend upon the applicant. Some need some help scheduling all their application admissions (with all the backup Plan B applications and interviews' since many don't drive) and getting to interviews and visits since they also have a lot of School commitments. Hands off but help when asked or needed through the whole procedure is a good idea. Too close is not good.

 

[Rotor]

Getting In

So, there are about 50,000 that apply and 5,000 that get in right?
I'd say it is safe to say that there are thousands of DS that could have gotten in but didn't due to some random thing or some little thing.
I don't really think it is going out on a limb to say that there are some kids in areas where the support isn't that great or where the competition is particularly fierce where a consultant could give them a bump and improve their chances of getting in.
I don't think students really get too much of a chance to interview in their short lives before this- and understanding how to make your true personality, character and motivations shine through quickly but in a genuine fashion takes skill.
Same thing with the essays. You don't get too much experience writing about yourself and what you want to do- not in a concise fashion. A lot of academic writing up to that point is regurgitation- not trying to communicate who you are to someone you will never meet.
I got accepted to USAFA without much help from anyone but the congressional coordinator. My ALO was nice, but he didn't give me much coaching. Neither did my parents or teachers. I guess I also didn't have the internet- which would have made DIY way, way easier.

 

[iceman2018]

So, there are about 50,000 that apply and 5,000 that get in right?
I'd say it is safe to say that there are thousands of DS that could have gotten in but didn't due to some random thing or some little thing.
I don't really think it is going out on a limb to say that there are some kids in areas where the support isn't that great or where the competition is particularly fierce where a consultant could give them a bump and improve their chances of getting in.
I don't think students really get too much of a chance to interview in their short lives before this- and understanding how to make your true personality, character and motivations shine through quickly but in a genuine fashion takes skill.
Same thing with the essays. You don't get too much experience writing about yourself and what you want to do- not in a concise fashion. A lot of academic writing up to that point is regurgitation- not trying to communicate who you are to someone you will never meet.
I got accepted to USAFA without much help from anyone but the congressional coordinator. My ALO was nice, but he didn't give me much coaching. Neither did my parents or teachers. I guess I also didn't have the internet- which would have made DIY way, way easier.

Wow! That makes it even more satisfying to reach a goal without much parental support. You still won't be where you are without them.
Congratulations on your appointment .

 

[Christcorp]

Rotor; I believe the debate isn't about Consultants in general. Most agree that the civilian university process has many more facets to it than the academy process and selection criteria. A consultant can definitely be of assistance . Simply saying 2 things:

1. A consultant is going to be much less useful to an academy applicant than to a civilian university applicant.

2. If you're hiring a consultant mainly to assist you with a very short academy essay (Compared to the type of essays you need to present to civilian universities); or to help you practice interviewing, (Which a large portion of civilian universities don't actually have face to face interviews); then it seems like a waste of money. There are so many alternatives if all you're worried about interviews and essays.

I really don't see how paid consultants can help in any other area of the academy application process. It's not like they can with civilian universities with lining up scholarships, alumni, boosters, playing the numerous cards for being accepted, etc. It's just different than the military academy process.

But hay.... If a person wants to pay for a consultant, then more power to them. Whether they actually help or not; or acceptance is rationalized by their service, is totally up to mom and dad. (Chances are, the individual isn't paying for a consultant).

 

[MemberLG]

I really don't see how paid consultants can help in any other area of the academy application process. It's not like they can with civilian universities with lining up scholarships, alumni, boosters, playing the numerous cards for being accepted, etc. It's just different than the military academy process.

In certain cases, they might help.

Since you are paying, you might listen to consultant's advice more than from a FFR. They might be saying the same thing.

By luck you might have no or lousy FFR.

 

[Christcorp]

I've definitely heard the comment over many years with helping kids get into college, that they are more receptive and will listen more to a PAID CONSULTANT than to their parents, family, friends, or even teachers and school counselors.

If that's the MAIN REASON, then my comment to the student would be: "Fine..... YOU PAY FOR IT".

Seriously, if the main reason for paying a consultant, is so they can tell the kid and assist with the exact same thing the parents can, but it "Sounds Better" coming from a "Professional"...... then that's pretty sad.

I admit that it was a little tough when my son applied to college and the air force academy. I'd been helping kids with college for a long time. I knew a thing or two about the military and academy. The hardest thing was trying to make sure HE was doing all the work, to ENSURE HE WANTED IT. I could easily do an entire academy application in 1 weekend. But I'm not a helicopter parent. It helped that my son had an 3 year older sister who would be a senior in college when he starts his freshman year. So she was able to give him advice. But when the time came to actually start the paper work for all the college apps, scholarships, air force academy, etc., he felt comfortable enough in asking me to "GUIDE" him. I wasn't going to do it for him.

Guess what I'm saying is, if a parent or family member KNOWS the process, answer, how to apply/get accepted, etc., then THEY should be helping the student. You shouldn't be paying a consultant. If the student is more receptive to a stranger than a parent/family member, then maybe the parent/family member needs to work on their skills on building confidence in others.

Again; don't get me wrong. For civilian universities, I have seen where a consultant can be beneficial to an applicant. But for the military academies, a paid consultant is generally a waste of money. I say GENERALLY, because there's always an exception to every rule.

EXAMPLE of Exception. Parents either high school drop outs or barely graduated. School teachers and counselors who have to spend all their time handling "Disciplinary" issues instead of helping kids with their academic future. And; in the case of an academy application, an ALO/BGO/MALO who is useless and doesn't want to help at all.

In this scenario, I can possibly see a paid consultant. But other than something similar to this example, I just don't see it. Not for an academy applicant.

 

[Packer]

Seriously, if the main reason for paying a consultant, is so they can tell the kid and assist with the exact same thing the parents can, but it "Sounds Better" coming from a "Professional"...... then that's pretty sad.

I admit that it was a little tough when my son applied to college and the air force academy. I'd been helping kids with college for a long time. I knew a thing or two about the military and academy. The hardest thing was trying to make sure HE was doing all the work, to ENSURE HE WANTED IT. I could easily do an entire academy application in 1 weekend. But I'm not a helicopter parent. It helped that my son had an 3 year older sister who would be a senior in college when he starts his freshman year. So she was able to give him advice. But when the time came to actually start the paper work for all the college apps, scholarships, air force academy, etc., he felt comfortable enough in asking me to "GUIDE" him. I wasn't going to do it for him.

Guess what I'm saying is, if a parent or family member KNOWS the process, answer, how to apply/get accepted, etc., then THEY should be helping the student. You shouldn't be paying a consultant. If the student is more receptive to a stranger than a parent/family member, then maybe the parent/family member needs to work on their skills on building confidence in others.

CC I agree but your situation with your son is a bit unique. You are an ALO so of course he recognizes you have some expertise in the area of applying to USAFA. Most parents (the ones that help) go out and learn about the process along with their kids in order to help them. They are not experts and the kids recognize this.

Probably pretty hard to find any consultants that are SA application experts though.

 

[Christcorp]

CC I agree but your situation with your son is a bit unique. You are an ALO so of course he recognizes you have some expertise in the area of applying to USAFA. Most parents (the ones that help) go out and learn about the process along with their kids in order to help them. They are not experts and the kids recognize this.

Probably pretty hard to find any consultants that are SA application experts though.

I wasn't an ALO when my son applied to the academy.
1) I'm not ALLOWED to work directly with him as his ALO, or anyone at his school applying.
2) I had been helping kids get into college for 10+ years prior, and "Assisting" ALO's with their applicants; but I wasn't an ALO at the time.

Point was, didn't matter if it was the academy or when he applied and received scholarships to Michigan State, Tulane, and a number of other civilian universities. He "Trusted" me and his mom to look at his essays; to review his application; to help search for scholarships; how to get resumes; etc...

So, a parent/family member who has experience with college, essays, etc. needs to instill confidence in their child. The reason to use a paid consultant, is because there are NO OTHER INDIVIDUALS available to you that can help. To say they will take the advice and direction of the paid consultant over that of a parent/family member who is also knowledgeable, because it sound better coming from someone outside, it honestly...... A very LAME excuse.

 

[Packer]

I wasn't an ALO when my son applied to the academy.
1) I'm not ALLOWED to work directly with him as his ALO, or anyone at his school applying.
2) I had been helping kids get into college for 10+ years prior, and "Assisting" ALO's with their applicants; but I wasn't an ALO at the time.

Seems like I recall you saying in the past that you were an ALO prior to your son applying but had to take the year off that he applied. Do I recall correctly?

Yeah it is a pretty lame excuse but I hear a lot of lame excuses.

 

[Christcorp]

Seems like I recall you saying in the past that you were an ALO prior to your son applying but had to take the year off that he applied. Do I recall correctly?

Yeah it is a pretty lame excuse but I hear a lot of lame excuses.

I worked with the ALO/LOD, but prior to2008, I wasn't an ALO. But I worked with them for years. I actually preferred not being an "Official" ALO, because I was allowed to give opinions and comments on forums like this, that an ALO isn't really allowed to say. I had a lot more freedom. But the year my son was applying, he worked directly with his ALO. I still helped others with their applications, getting their CFA done, essays, interview prep, etc... But we didn't want any conflict of interest with my son; so I basically just kept him "On track" making sure he got things accomplished. And yes, as a "Parent", I would look over his essays before hitting submit. Obviously I'm not going to stay out of the process totally.

But again, you seem to miss the point. The academy wasn't his only choice. Air Force was his only MILITARY choice, but just like i recommend to everyone else I've worked with, you need to apply to at LEAST 5 other schools. Me, his mom, and his sister are all college graduates. We've all been through the process of applications, essays, scholarships, interviews, etc. He trusted us. But I am NOT UNIQUE. There are a lot of parents out there that went to college. Many who's jobs require them to write professionally. A lot of teachers and counselors who will help. I'm simply replying to the comment that advice, direction, instruction, etc. can be accepted by an applicant better from a stranger than from a parent/family member is totally B.S. And if that's the excuse someone personally gave me for them hiring a consultant, then I would simply tell them to go color and end the conversation. Because it wouldn't be worth my time.

But like i said; if the individual truly has NO ONE AT ALL available to critique a couple VERY SHORT Essays, and to help them be presentable for an interview, then I guess paying a consultant is better than nothing. Because that's about the ONLY THING a consultant can really help you with when it comes to an academy application.

 

[Packer]

I am nnot missing the point. I just wanted you to clarify.

 

[Christcorp]

You can thank Flieger. For many years I kept saying no. But he convinced me; or maybe gave me too much Weed to drink at a thudgate; to finally say yes. So I did. LOL!!!

THANKS STEVE!!!

 

[Luigi59]

Probably pretty hard to find any consultants that are SA application experts though.

I believe that there are probably 6-8 people here that could charge for providing admissions advice/direction if they wanted to.

 

[Christcorp]

I believe that there are probably 6-8 people here that could charge for providing admissions advice/direction if they wanted to.

I think the thing that makes this forum so good, is just about anyone who's gone through the process, probably has quite a bit they could contribute. Same with those who are currently at the academy have a lot to contribute about "Current" life at the academies.

The problems I see are: 1) Not all 12,000+ applicants visit the forums; and 2) Most that do, don't use the search feature. Seems like more and more, many are looking for the "Fast Answer". They want a check-list of: "Do these things and you get an appointment". If that doesn't work, they ask the same questions that have been asked 2,402,589 times.

Without any true scientific data, I would say that the NUMBER of applicants; or family members who are using this forum by proxy for their son/daughter; vs how many actually receive an appointment; is probably pretty significant. I'd say it's probably higher than the 7% or whatever it is of acceptance vs applications. But..... success has a direct correlation to how much effort, research, and work is applied.

Without being biased, I would say that this forum, along with assistance from your ALO/BGO/MALO and parents/family/friends/teachers/counselors; is all you need to be able to present the best possible application. (Of course, the majority of the work is on the applicant doing their part academically, athletically, leadership, etc.) But as for requiring outside additional assistance, you don't need anything beyond this forum and the other sources I mentioned. Definitely not something you have to pay for. For those who have never visited this or similar forums, don't have educated/experienced parents, and who's teachers/counselors won't give them the time of day; they might need some additional assistance.