Air Force ROTC Disenrollment

[Bayda]

Hello,

I am posting concerning my husband, so please excuse me if I don't know all of the correct terminology.

My husband was disenrolled from afrotc his senior year of college due to some poor grades. If you would like all of the details, please feel free to ask - there were a few contributing factors which combined to make his senior year particularly difficult.

Although we were told we would hear headquarters decision before graduation, it took twice as long, an entire year, to receive news that he would have to enlist.

Since he left the program 2 years ago, we have both developed our careers and created other long term career goals. I have started a business I can't easily abandon, and he has made strides in his goal to become a project manager. We are now being faced with him enlisting and having the roots we set down torn up.

Over the course of his time in ROTC , he was only given about 8,000$ in stipend money. We would much rather pay back the money than have to enlist for 2 years. Is there anything we can do to change headquarter's decision and just pay back the money?

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[Capt MJ]

Though I can’t post an actual .com website here or endorse any particular lawyer, there are many lawyers which specialize in Service Academy/ROTC disenrollments, administrative and punitive actions. The majority are former military JAGs who know the system, the rules, the policies, what can be negotiated, what can be settled between the individual and the Service.

Use “ROTC disenrollment lawyer” in Google. Do your due diligence on researching reputable firms. Many will offer a free consultation.

Best wishes for a favorable outcome.

 

[USMCGrunt]

Excellent advice. Find a lawyer who understands the military.

 

[Bayda]

Though I can’t post an actual .com website here or endorse any particular lawyer, there are many lawyers which specialize in Service Academy/ROTC disenrollments, administrative and punitive actions. The majority are former military JAGs who know the system, the rules, the policies, what can be negotiated, what can be settled between the individual and the Service.

Use “ROTC disenrollment lawyer” in Google. Do your due diligence on researching reputable firms. Many will offer a free consultation.

Best wishes for a favorable outcome.

I will do that! Thank you! I appreciate the help. I was worried the thread would not be looked on favorably because we are looking to get out of serving. It's just not the right time in our lives for it.

 

[Capt MJ]

We know nothing about the details of the situation, but those of us who have spent time in uniform who post here have seen the wheels of government grind on inexorably. You need expert help and advocacy on your side. The Service needs its pound of flesh, because govt funds were expended. Finding the right solution to satisfy the original investment while upholding precedent is what these lawyers know how to navigate.

 

[k2rider]

You also don't pay back just the stipend....you pay back the tuition, books, stipend and I've sometimes heard any "training" he was provided though I don't know if that's true or not.

 

[Bayda]

You also don't pay back just the stipend....you pay back the tuition, books, stipend and I've sometimes heard any "training" he was provided though I don't know if that's true or not.

They never provided any money for anything education related. Only the small stipend. I'm not sure about the training, however.

 

[Bayda]

Is there any option which doesn't require hiring an attorney? We recently moved and aren't in a position financially for that.

 

[Soldiergriz]

Trolling?

 

[Bayda]

Trolling?

I'm sorry I'm not sure what that means

 

[Soldiergriz]

Trolling?

I'm sorry I'm not sure what that means

Surprisingly, you've received some advice above reference finding an attorney. You're now not satisfied with that advise.

If you can afford to pay back the stipend money - perhaps you can afford to pay an attorney.

Most issues in the military are best solved using the chain of command. I'd start there. Your husband will understand.

 

[Pima]

Is there any option which doesn't require hiring an attorney? We recently moved and aren't in a position financially for that.

Honestly, impo the answer is NO!

I am shocked that they are forcing him to go enlisted because that is quite unusual. They don't like doing it because it can create bad morale within the unit. Let's be honest if he has to give up his career to payback than come 8 a.m. every morning he is just clocking in, and will beeeaaach out how he was forced to do this for X amt of yrs.
~ In my entire time here, he will be the 1st that I know of that was forced into enlistment. There were many that had big bills and wanted to go enlisted, but were given a 6 figure paycheck for payback.

An attorney can assist. Typically it maybe a couple of hundred bucks for a consultation compared to spending 8K, thus the question if you are trolling.

 

[Bayda]

Surprisingly, you've received some advice above reference finding an attorney. You're now not satisfied with that advise.

If you can afford to pay back the stipend money - perhaps you can afford to pay an attorney.

Most issues in the military are best solved using the chain of command. I'd start there. Your husband will understand.

Yes, but from what I understand the stipend wouldn't be paid back all at once, whereas legal fees add up quickly.

I am contacting some lawyers, but I was just trying to explore all of our options in case the lawyer option falls through.

I think he may have gone the chain of command route and basically hit a wall, but we will explore that option again. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bayda]

Honestly, impo the answer is NO!

I am shocked that they are forcing him to go enlisted because that is quite unusual. They don't like doing it because it can create bad morale within the unit. Let's be honest if he has to give up his career to payback than come 8 a.m. every morning he is just clocking in, and will beeeaaach out how he was forced to do this for X amt of yrs.
~ In my entire time here, he will be the 1st that I know of that was forced into enlistment. There were many that had big bills and wanted to go enlisted, but were given a 6 figure paycheck for payback.

An attorney can assist. Typically it maybe a couple of hundred bucks for a consultation compared to spending 8K, thus the question if you are trolling.

Oh I see what you mean about the trolling. You're right, it might be cheaper in the long run to work with an attorney. Although immediate money is a problem, I'm sure we could work it out.

A part of me wonders if headquarters thinks they are doing him a favor, since he was in his senior year and so close to commissioning. Can he express that he would rather pay back the money? The people overseeing his conditional release told us that the decision was final, so we thought we didn't have much if a say in the matter.

Once again, apologies for messing up terminology.

 

[Pima]

Here's the question...how much will it cost you to uproot your careers and life?

They can send you anywhere from Eglin Florida (great) to Minot (why not Minot freezin is the reason).

I don't think at all if HQ thought they were doing him a favor. The reality is the military is like any other business, needs come 1st! You have yet to say what his major was, and I am not asking you to do that! However, let's say it was something to do with cyber or computers, than to him he is an asset they can use compared to the cadet that majored in poli-sci.

You really do need to talk to an attorney with military background. Be prepared it can take months to get a resolution because, like a Fortune 500 company they are going to go up the chain (as high as SEC AF) and back down again. They will probably also charge you an interest rate for the 8K, on top of your attorney fees. You and your husband need to decide if they say you will go to Creech (Vegas) for four years is worth the cost.
~ Remember the long run. Going 4 years, getting a TS clearance and working his career for a GS or contractor job maybe better in the end. One old fable proves that point...who wins the race? Tortoise or the hare?

I am not trying to be mean, and I get where you are coming from...roots go deep, but the fact is you need to talk to an attorney.

 

[Bayda]

Here's the question...how much will it cost you to uproot your careers and life?

They can send you anywhere from Eglin Florida (great) to Minot (why not Minot freezin is the reason).

I don't think at all if HQ thought they were doing him a favor. The reality is the military is like any other business, needs come 1st! You have yet to say what his major was, and I am not asking you to do that! However, let's say it was something to do with cyber or computers, than to him he is an asset they can use compared to the cadet that majored in poli-sci.

You really do need to talk to an attorney with military background. Be prepared it can take months to get a resolution because, like a Fortune 500 company they are going to go up the chain (as high as SEC AF) and back down again. They will probably also charge you an interest rate for the 8K, on top of your attorney fees. You and your husband need to decide if they say you will go to Creech (Vegas) for four years is worth the cost.
~ Remember the long run. Going 4 years, getting a TS clearance and working his career for a GS or contractor job maybe better in the end. One old fable proves that point...who wins the race? Tortoise or the hare?

I am not trying to be mean, and I get where you are coming from...roots go deep, but the fact is you need to talk to an attorney.

I just spoke to one who says it is unusual that they are having him enlist.

He was a mechanical engineering major.

His conditional release runs out next month, so this all might be a waste of time, but I figured I can give a last ditch effort. I work with children with autism and just built a client base in our underserved area, so I am fighting to not have to go.

 

[BTCS/USN]

Looking at this from another perspective. What would have been the game plan, taking into consideration your start up venture, had your husband graduated, gone active duty and received orders to say Japan? Do you close shop and follow, deal with the seperation for however long or some other option? As for the monies received however large or small, they aren't the only costs associated with ROTC affiliated programs, just the most obvious. Going enlisted for a period of time provides guaranteed employment, allows for time to retake the courses and possibly finish that degree and may get some practical hands on experience in his field that a college grad. without that experience wouldn't be able to bring to the table later.

 

[thibaud]

May I ask why you "can't easily abandon" your business?

As a business executive, I see that aspect of the problem as easily the most malleable and solve-able.

A good business lawyer can help you craft a structure that would allow you to retain control and ownership while delegating authority to a capable manager, for example.

You might also be able to sell the business, pocket a nice payout, and re-invest that in a few years' time after your husband's done with his enlistment.

In any case, it seems pretty clear to me that the government/military side is the LEAST flexible, and your entrepreneurial/ownership situation the MOST flexible, of your situation. That would dictate that you explore as many possible disposal/delegation etc solution paths for the business as you can. Talk to a good business lawyer or consultant.

 

[Humey]

May I ask why you "can't easily abandon" your business?

As a business executive, I see that aspect of the problem as easily the most malleable and solve-able.

A good business lawyer can help you craft a structure that would allow you to retain control and ownership while delegating authority to a capable manager, for example.

You might also be able to sell the business, pocket a nice payout, and re-invest that in a few years' time after your husband's done with his enlistment.

In any case, it seems pretty clear to me that the government/military side is the LEAST flexible, and your entrepreneurial/ownership situation the MOST flexible, of your situation. That would dictate that you explore as many possible disposal/delegation etc solution paths for the business as you can. Talk to a good business lawyer or consultant.

Sorry but I disagree. Unless her job is to book the business and have other people deal with the autistic children, I dont thing leaving it in the hands of someone else is feasible. This is a personal service business where the client is hiring you and not the company. My wife is a behaviorist that works with children with issues. They arent hiring my wife's company, they are hiring her. The type of business is built on reputation and referral and while not everyone would leave if she left it in someone else's hand, her clients will be open to someone new, someone she hires or someone who is referred by a friend

 

[Bayda]

Looking at this from another perspective. What would have been the game plan, taking into consideration your start up venture, had your husband graduated, gone active duty and received orders to say Japan? Do you close shop and follow, deal with the seperation for however long or some other option? As for the monies received however large or small, they aren't the only costs associated with ROTC affiliated programs, just the most obvious. Going enlisted for a period of time provides guaranteed employment, allows for time to retake the courses and possibly finish that degree and may get some practical hands on experience in his field that a college grad. without that experience wouldn't be able to bring to the table later.

Without going into too much detail, we had planned out lives around him graduating and commissioning. I took a year off between undergraduate and graduate degrees, anticipating i would be located in a new place wherever he was stationed. When that changed, and the disenrollment process took two years, we had to move on with our lives. That is when we each began careers and landed here.

Also, he did finish his degree, and is now applying it in a career field he enjoys. Which is why we are trying to stay where we are.