ALO Question-

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Finsup, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. Finsup

    Finsup Member

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    Ok, so my DS has everything complete (all checkmarks done).

    He was assigned an evaluator ALO 10 days ago, and he sent an email introducing himself and requested an interview.

    He followed up 3 days ago and hasn’t heard any sort of reply from either email. This ALO also does not have a phone number listed.

    We don’t want to get the ALO into trouble, but what should we do?

    He would to meet the first board- not sure exactly when it is, but I believe it’s in October.

    Thanks for your help!

    Fins-
     
  2. FMHS-79

    FMHS-79 Parent

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    The SA application process is a marathon, not a sprint and very rarely does it move as quickly as candidates want them to. Most ALOs have full-time jobs or other commitments, so patience is warranted.

    Also, is your son DoDMERB qualified and has he received a nomination? Regardless of your DS's application status, he also may need to wait for other candidates from a MOCs slate to complete their applications before his application is taken to the board for ranking and stacking.

    My counsel, for what it is worth, is to take a deep breath and wait at least another week before your DS takes any other follow-up actions. If you look at https://www.serviceacademyforums.co...lass-of-2022-appointment-thread.58545/page-45, you will notice that the majority of the reported appointments occur in February and March; so a day, week, or month delay in the ALO assessment may not impact your DS's timeline at this stage of the process.

    Thank your son for his willingness to serve. Good Luck.
     
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  3. Finsup

    Finsup Member

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    So true about the Marathon!

    Yes, he’s DoDMERB qualified. And he has a Presidential Nomination.

    Quite frankly, from what I read about the amazing kids on this site.....I personnally believe he’s right on the bubble.

    Basically 31 ACT, a few varsity sports, a few volunteer hours, set up a little donation project a while back and almost maxed the PT, BUT only ranked about 11% at his pretty competitive school, about one B a year (only in Honors classes). Mostly Honors and AP classes, and all around a great kid..... but nothing ‘special’

    His mentor ALO thinks it’s pretty important to meet the first board, somehow his chances are better??

    I don’t mind waiting and being patient, but not if it’s hurt his chances. Seems like 10 days with no response is a little inappropriate. Especially when everything else is done (and yes, he’s also applying for nominations from the other 3 MOC/VP).

    I know.... a Marathon!!
     
  4. fencersmother

    fencersmother 10-Year Member Founding Member

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    Finsup, please search through this site and you will find out that MONTHS can pass, and it is neither inappropriate nor uncommon. Recall, your ALO is a volunteer, probably assigned many aspirants, working full time with a family of his own (and maybe his own aspirants.). Please be patient. If you have not heard from the ALO in five or six weeks (WEEKS!!!! I know, it's crazy talk), then email him again.

    Please, PLEASE, review this site, and you can calm down some.
     
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  5. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    I believe in the Instructions to Candidates it states that the evaluator ALO will contact you.
     
  6. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator 10-Year Member

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    The evaluator ALO will suddenly have a name "pop up" on their "ALOWEB" page. It's our portal, for want of a better term, and it's out connection to all things USAFA. "Most" times we get a message telling us a 4060 has been assigned to us but sometimes that message doesn't happen. Then its up to the ALO to "notice" that something is new/different! Trust me, if you have a lot (I currently have 34 that I am the mentor ALO for) its easy to miss.

    I'd try the e-mail again. If you have no success...there are other options available; you could PM me and we can discuss.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
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  7. Finsup

    Finsup Member

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    I so do appreciate the advice. Again, I’ve gleaned a lot from this forum and truly appreciate everyone’s input.

    My DS’s mentor ALO has been wonderful and encouraging and very forthright. And by being forthright, he made it clear that my DS is right on the ‘cut line’, and his best bet is to try and meet the first board. Ironically, the pressure to finish this early was started by him!

    The way he explained the process is that the AFA uses a ‘rolling board’. He has also made it clear that every candidate has a drop dead date of mid Feb. Once they are assigned a ‘evaluator ALO’, a new date, usually 21 days later, becomes the new due date for the evaluation (interview) which allows the student to meet a ‘board’.

    So, my DS spoke with his mentor ALO, and his guess was the interview is probably due the middle of this month (His guess was Oct 15 based on when my DS was reassigned to an evaluator). Both of his other 2 candidates that have been reassigned to an evaluator about the same time have already been interviewed and should meet the next board in Oct. He recommended that we contact the AFA to verify the new ‘evaluator ALO’ contact information. Again, the pressure to do something is being driven by the mentor ALO.

    My DS doesn’t want to snitch and call the academy, and I understand this forums pleas for patience, l was just hoping to get some advice from an ALO (or prior ALO) who might be lurking-

    Again- thanks for the input, my DS doesn’t want to upset anyone, and I don’t want him to lose his best shot (according to his mentor ALO).

    Again- A sincere thanks for everyone’s time-
     
  8. Finsup

    Finsup Member

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    Flieger83-

    You posted about the same the same that I did- Thank you. You are a wealth of information.

    He’s emailed twice (10 and 3 days ago). No reply. Maybe we wait a few more days try and reach out again?

    Then elect to call the AFA?

    Will that still allow him to meet the first board?

    Also, care to shed any light on board dates? I understand that most early LOA’s from the first board are for athletes, but again, according to his mentor ALO, the first board may be his ‘best chance’? I wish I could understand why, but he was pretty adamant about getting everything done ASAP.

    Thanks again-

    Finsup
     
  9. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    Unless something has changed, boards will start meeting every Monday (maybe it is Tuesday, can't recall which day). They meet while USAFA is in session, iows, during winter break there will be no boards.

    Just my guess, but I think because your DS has a Presidential nom., the mentor ALO felt that it wasn't necessarily his best chance, but his earliest chance. Presidential noms are considered non-comp. like an MoC. As long as your child qualifies for that nomination, they get it. However, it is important to understand that since it is non-competitive they could end up with 500, 600 or 700+ nominations for the 100 slots they can charge to Pres.
    ~ Many of candidates like your DS with a pres. will submit as soon as possible. However, USAFA knows that fact and very few will get that appointment in Oct. It is not a 1st come, 1st serve aspect. JMPO, if the candidate is on the border line they will wait to offer an appointment. If that candidate looks like they are at the top, and would be offered even from the national pool, they will be offered an appointment. I have no data or proof, but it is what I have seen over the years.

    I hate the term "rolling" because I believe it gives candidates this idea that USAFA is like a traditional college's rolling admission. IOWS, once admissions reviews your package, you are in or out. However, with USAFA, getting an appointment means "charging" the appointee to a source, such as Pres., MoC, Supe, ROTC, etc. Each charging source has limited numbers they can get charged. An MoC submits a slate of 10. Unless, the candidate is a principal, or an LOA, they cannot appoint anyone off that slate until all 10 have met the board. If you follow that, than you know it is not a true "rolling" admissions.
    ~ Since USAFA started this "rolling", it really hasn't changed much regarding when the majority will find out if they are appointed...in essence, Mass Mailing March is still when the bulk will find out their answer.

    For now, he needs to get his MoC noms done. He needs to get his AFROTC scholarship paperwork in if he has not yet done this (their 1st board meet this month).

    JMPO, but I wouldn't be fretting over the fact that the ALO has yet to respond within 10 days. I would be moving on with the other things. I hope he is taking more ACT/SATs, 31 is good, but I would say that since USAFA superscores, getting closer to a 33/34 or higher makes him more competitive.
    ~ FYI, AFROTC does not superscore, only best sitting. 31 best sitting may get him a type 1, but that is a maybe bc their best sitting avg for type 1 is close to 32 avg.
    ~~ Remember 95% of USAFA candidates will apply for an AFROTC scholarship as their plan B, but the reverse is not true. 95% of AFROTC applicants don't apply for USAFA as their plan B. Many have no desire to attend an SA. AFROTC scholarships are national from the get go, they are not geocentric first like USAFA. That means they don't care if 100% of the recipients are from only 2 of our 50 states.
    ~~~ What is the same between the two, are the acceptance/award rates, which hovers @ 16-18% of all applicants.

    If within 3 weeks you have not heard from your ALO, than I would contact someone to get the ball moving.

    Again, just my opinion and with $2.07 you can get a small coffee.
     
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  10. Finsup

    Finsup Member

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    Pima-

    Thank you very much for shedding light on the process. Your information is invaluable! And appreciate the additional advice. Yes, ROTC is complete and he should meet this board (results are public Oct 12, I believe).

    The mentor ALO implied that there is only one board a month, and there is a new deadline of Oct 15. I assumed that if the interview isn’t conducted by that date, my DS would be penalized.

    Good to know it’s not quite that way!

    I guess I understood the mentor ALO wrong. He has done a fantastic job and provided incredible information (just like those on this forum!), but he seemed very upset that the new interview ALO hasn’t responded, and that’s what got us excited. He is the one that wanted my DS to call his admissions counselor to verify contact information or to get his phone number in case there was an issue with his email.

    I was pushing to follow the mentors lead, and all of you are on my DS side.... so I guess you win!! We’ll be patient.

    Thanks again for all the information and advice. It is truly appreciated- You all are a fantastic resource.

    Finsup
     
  11. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    The fact is things change yearly. I am kind of shocked that they only meet 1x a month now for appointments, but if USAFA now does it like AFROTC boards than it makes sense they are only meeting 1x a month.
    ~ It use to be they met 1x a week for 1 day regarding USAFA, whereas, AFROTC boards meet for @ 3 days 4 times.

    I am long out of the loop regarding boards, but if that is the new way, I still will not change my opinion. Sorry. Yes, he has a Presidential, but there are only 100 slots, and a candidate has until Feb. to submit. USAFA is not going to hand out all 100 appointments in Oct., nor Nov. MoCs by law have until end of Jan. to submit their slate.
    ~ Unless there is something amazing in his packet that you have not stated, I would not be waiting for the BFE in Nov. You have stated he is a strong candidate, and I agree, but without knowing the real details like the ALO, this is all moot.

    Think of appointments like a giant 1300 piece jigsaw puzzle and you do not know what the picture looks like. LOAs and principals will be the outside ridges. Easy to place. The multiple noms are more difficult like 4 sided because they can fit in one way or another, but in the end they can only connect with the edge pieces. The fewer noms, the harder to fit, but they will find a place.
    ~ It is easiest to place those LOAs, principals and candidates that have a 36 ACT, Valedictorian, All APs, 3 sport Varsity, President of NHS, Eagle Scout, etc. In essence, the OMG wow kid because they are above the avg appointed!
    ~~ It becomes harder as the levels change. 32 ACT, 3 sports varsity and Eagle Scout with 4 noms (MOC, and Pres). Do we charge him to the Pres or the MoC? Assuming both have Pres., but are from different states. do they charge you to the Pres as #100 and let them go only MoC before NWL, or do they charge them and you go MoC before hitting the NWL.

    Some states "talk" aka spread the wealth. That means the MoCs will not duplicate noms for their slates. IOWS, if Sen Smith gives you a nom, and they talk, Sen. Jones will not nominate you. (See above about jigsaw and hitting the NWL). Off the top of my mind, CA, CO, FL, MD, NY, VA and TX "talk".

    I am not trying to be Debbie Downer. I am trying to illustrate how intricate this process becomes and why this idea of rolling admissions is not the same as a traditional college, also why Mass Mailing March still exists.

    If it was me, I would have him get it done ASAP, but I would tell him to hope for an answer by Nov., but expect the answer in March....maybe later.
    ~ Use the search tab on this site regarding appointments for 2022. Most were appointed in March.

    This is truly a marathon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  12. BornintheUSA

    BornintheUSA Member

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    “Off the top of my mind, CA, CO, FL, MD, NY, VA and TX "talk".”

    CT Senators do this also.
     
  13. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator 10-Year Member

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    Hi!

    Straight up...USAFA hasn't announced any board dates and they won't. Each year it may be different; they'll meet on Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday, skip a week...as far as I know, there's no "set date" for every board.

    That being said; realize that the VAST majority of appointment offers will be made in....wait for it....MARCH 2019.

    In my past...what I've seen "early" is: LOA's for recruited athletes, the VERY VERY few offers to candidates that are just amazing beyond belief...and very few others. That's not to say that's it, but that's been my experience over the years.

    But the ALO is correct: the earlier the candidate package is complete, the more times it'll be looked at by admissions and that's NEVER a bad thing!!!

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  14. fencersmother

    fencersmother 10-Year Member Founding Member

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    I detest the talk of LOA's.... even though one of my sons received one. Drives me crazy for a couple reasons but #1 is: on I-Day and every day after, no one will ever know or care if you receive an LOA. But enough of that...

    Pennsylvania was a "talk" state too, last I heard but I am well out of the loop on that.
     
  15. skismuggs

    skismuggs 5-Year Member

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    When is/was your son's application due? On the application status there is a date that you have to submit everything. The ALO technically has a month or so to submit the 4060 form after that date. I also agree that it is easy to miss a 4060 evaluation if you have a lot of candidates in your queue. I say give it another week and reach out again.
     
  16. Bracken

    Bracken Member

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    MN senators and MoCs coordinate also.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    I might be wrong, but I think NJ MoCs also talk.

    Not to derail the thread, and finsup's question about the ALO, however, I do believe that understanding the bigger picture, allows posters/lurkers to see what seems huge like not hearing back within 10 days, is really a short time period.
    I am not trying to be rude, unkind, or mean. I am trying to be realistic.

    1. ALO's are volunteers. Some are retired, some are AD. Either way they may be away right now. IE even, if they are retired AF, it does not mean they are retired from the workforce, thus they have a job that may send them on business trips for a couple of weeks. They may also have a family. For example, my DH is not an ALO, but he is retired AF, and is now a GS contractor for the AF. Currently, due to his new assignment he will travel a lot. He cannot take any leave until June of next yr., except for Xmas, due to that fact come mid July we will be taking a 10 day vacay out of the country.
    ~ What's my point? My point is if he was an ALO, between his current job (connected to the AF) and our vacation plans it is very possible if you emailed him within a 2 week period he would not be able to get back to you as fast as you want.

    2. Candidates can wait for months to hear back from their MoCs.
    ~ Our DS got all 3 MoC noms., only 1 did interviews. All had a due date by 9/30. 1st. nom arrived 12/18. 2nd Moc notified on Jan 5th, that he would interview the following Sat. Received his nom. @Jan. 15th. 3rd MoC nom showed up on his portal @2/1. Do you see the commonality? It took months, not weeks to get the answers back. This is a state where the MoCs DO NOT TALK.

    3. I can't stress this enough. Mass Mailing March.
    ~ If you use the search tab and see appointment threads you will see a flutter every month, but it is in the beginning of March that the flood gates open. Hence, not being mean, unkind, or rude, just saying if you look at the bigger picture, 10 days is nothing.

    We all wish everyone the best. We hope there is a BFE for every poster/lurker here, yet, the reality is many of you will have to wait @ 5 -6 more months to find out if you get the BFE or the TWE.

    My last advice, IGNORE the appointment thread, especially if they are from your district/state, it will just drive you insane. Your 1st desire will to be ask stats, but the reality it is a WCS, which includes a school profile.
     
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  18. OldRetSWO

    OldRetSWO USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs 5-Year Member

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    The NJ Senators do coordinate - they hold joint interview boards which involve both of the staffs. This has been the case in NJ for a long time and predates both of the current Senators.
     
  19. jaglvr

    jaglvr Member

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    @fencermother last year PA was def talk state. DS trying 2nd time (made it to qualified not selected at USMMA) and still believe it is so bc a) same MOCs across the board and b) all have 10/5 5pm deadline
     
  20. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    If I also recall they don't interview until Jan. sometime.

    Not trying to digress from the OP, just again illustrating how long they may have to wait to get an MoC nom, even if they submit by Oct.