Another Chapter In GO/FO Breaking Bad

Capt MJ

Capt MJ

Serviam.
15-Year Member
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(Note: GO/FO is general officer/flag officer, generals and admirals, or you might see “FOGO”)

www.airforcetimes.com

Sex with subordinate, inappropriate relationships cost fired warfare center commander two stars

"I made a mistake," Gersten reportedly said after he was fired from command of the Air Force Warfare Center.
www.airforcetimes.com www.airforcetimes.com

What is it about making general or admiral that makes them lose that common sense part of their brain? 🙄 An old story, new name.

Apparently, he had a pattern going back years. It’s the fact it was so openly known, impacting good order and discipline and constituted discrediting the service, is what brought the hammer down. The military isn’t usually in your bedroom unless you open the door.
 
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Yuck 🤮

So sad the mess left in the wake of this. And if there is ever any doubt as to why this isnt allowed? The article does a good job of showing that. Beyond wrecking lives and relationships, job performance and ability to lead is affected.
 
Capt MJ said:
(Note: GO/FO is general officer/flag officer, generals and admirals, or you might see “FOGO”)

www.airforcetimes.com

Sex with subordinate, inappropriate relationships cost fired warfare center commander two stars

"I made a mistake," Gersten reportedly said after he was fired from command of the Air Force Warfare Center.
www.airforcetimes.com www.airforcetimes.com

What is it about making general or admiral that makes them lose that common sense part of their brain? 🙄 An old story, new name.

Apparently, he had a pattern going back years. It’s the fact it was so openly known, impacting good order and discipline and constituted discrediting the service, is what brought the hammer down. The military isn’t usually in your bedroom unless you open the door.
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I suspect this has been happening long before he became a general.
 
Devil Doc said:
Over 3000 dollars a month.
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And presumably being invited to sit on corporate boards after retirement. Not gonna happen. He will have some resume challenges. And we can rule out going to work for leadership consulting firms, as senior officers often go and do.

Now, I can picture one person doing the happy dance. His ex-wife, unless she got half his retirement pay in the divorce. That’s like a double whammy.
 
I wonder what it would have taken for him to be taken to CM?
(Never having made flag rank, I didn't get that JAG brief, just the new commanders' JAG briefs)

Steve
 
He got what he deserved.

Time’s don’t change. At my pre command course they lectured us on being careful around subordinates of the opposite sex. It was (and probably still is) the leading cause for relief. And no, this wasn’t just directed at the males. I knew a female officer who was a “studette” and on the fast track. She threw it away for a fling with one of her pilots. Both were married so it was very messy.
 
And what, if anything, happened to the female officer with whom he was engaging in the relationship? I found it interesting the comments about how she started acting on the job once they began their fling.
 
flieger83 said:
I wonder what it would have taken for him to be taken to CM?
(Never having made flag rank, I didn't get that JAG brief, just the new commanders' JAG briefs)
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Does Air Force give a an accused the right to request Court Martial instead of Article 15 ?
I'm guessing there is little benefit to taking this type of charge to trial -- by the time that it gets to this point, there is very little question of fact, and a trial would be very embarrasing to all involved. I would expect the Service itself would want to keep the sordid details out of the press, but instead simply issue press releases like this to send the message to all hands about the consequences of these relationshiips.

momx3 said:
And what, if anything, happened to the female officer with whom he was engaging in the relationship?
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Depending upon rank, position and marital status, she might have gotten an Article 15 as well. In any event, I am betting that in this case, her career is over.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Does Air Force give a an accused the right to request Court Martial instead of Article 15 ?
I'm guessing there is little benefit to taking this type of charge to trial -- by the time that it gets to this point, there is very little question of fact, and a trial would be very embarrasing to all involved. I would expect the Service itself would want to keep the sordid details out of the press, but instead simply issue press releases like this to send the message to all hands about the consequences of these relationshiips.


Depending upon rank, position and marital status, she might have gotten an Article 15 as well. In any event, I am betting that in this case, her career is over.
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You also start facing the punishment of the innocent at some point, the spouses involved. They may have sacrificed much over the course of a career just to see some of the retirement yanked away.
There was a case a number of years ago where two Army pilots illegally took their wives on a flight and, while hot dogging crashed the aircraft killing the spouses while the pilots survived. The chain of command was put in a bind as there were children involved. If they threw the book at the pilots the kids would have been punished as well. I can’t remember what the final punishment was, but I think they struck a balance between punishing the pilots and ending their careers but not punishing the children.
 
momx3 said:
And what, if anything, happened to the female officer with whom he was engaging in the relationship? I found it interesting the comments about how she started acting on the job once they began their fling.
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The senior officer is always held to be more responsible, but clearly it was consensual. As noted by someone else, she may have had nonjudicial punishment under Article 15. It’s administrative in nature, not punitive, but would effectively end her career in terms of promotability. If she is still on AD, she now has “bad paper,” or negative performance reports. They may even have separated her. Her career is a smoking ruin. I would bet the thrill is all gone now. Foolish, foolish, foolish. On both sides. And sexting! Who doesn’t know that’s a no-no?!
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Does Air Force give a an accused the right to request Court Martial instead of Article 15 ?
I'm guessing there is little benefit to taking this type of charge to trial -- by the time that it gets to this point, there is very little question of fact, and a trial would be very embarrasing to all involved. I would expect the Service itself would want to keep the sordid details out of the press, but instead simply issue press releases like this to send the message to all hands about the consequences of these relationshiips.


Depending upon rank, position and marital status, she might have gotten an Article 15 as well. In any event, I am betting that in this case, her career is over.
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All of the services follow the UCMJ. No member "has" to accept Article 15 punishment. However...the way it plays out is this: you are standing tall in front of me (the CC) and I go through the litany (with a JAG there to make certain I dot all the i's and cross all the T's) and then offer you the Article 15 paperwork. Right there you know what I intend to do: take a stripe or two, dock your pay, etc.

At that moment you have a choice: accept non-judicial punishment under Article 15 or say "uh, no."

If you say "uh, no." Then the ball is back in MY court. I can say "drat...oh well...he/she gets away with it" and let it die. OR...I can refer it to court-martial. The charge(s) go to the convening authority for review, then there's a review and if it's all "cut and dried" there will most likely be a court.

And that can hit you a LOT harder than I can as a commander.

Steve
 
@flieger83

Fascinating post.

If a person was sexting, and didn’t want to accept Article 15, what would your decision be? Let it die or move it to court martial?

Wouldn’t you have let it die before it got to this point if that was the end result?

Or it’s giving him the opportunity to the plea bargain. His choice?
 
A1Janitor said:
@flieger83

Fascinating post.

If a person was sexting, and didn’t want to accept Article 15, what would your decision be? Let it die or move it to court martial?

Wouldn’t you have let it die before it got to this point if that was the end result?

Or it’s giving him the opportunity to the plea bargain. His choice?
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This is where the commander consults with the JAG. I'm not a legal expert, they are. And in truth, before it comes to me, there will have been an investigation by OSI or another organization. I will receive the results of that and then my boss will say something like "deal with it." And we'll go from there.

Sexting...well, if that violates the UCMJ, then it would depend on a lot...you can't just say "generically if you do X, it's Y..." Even a person being CM'd for drugs...what happens to person X may be different from person Y. I was/am fascinated by the law anyway (I minored in law, almost went to law school) and military law...as convoluted as it is, is fascinating in its application.

However, my "general, right now, feeling" on "sexting" is that if this was two consenting adults, with no "fraternization, adultery, command influence, chain-of-command conflict" that it wouldn't be an offense rising to Article 15. In truth, unless it crossed the line of "conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline" then...well, if folks were talking about it, someone else saw the texts, then it's time for a closed-door "come to Jesus" meeting. And we go from there.

I have lots of stories (I sat on a bunch of CM's over the years)...some are ugly, some are kinda funny, and one was just a mistake by an overzealous prosecutor out to fry a young airman just short of his 19th birthday.

Those are for another forum/time.

Steve
 
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