Anti-Affirmative Group Sues Naval Academy

I have visited the Wall and prayed for my friends whose names are inscribed. Forever young. I include and ask St. Michael to intercede.
 
severn said:
amp.cnn.com

Anti-affirmative action group sues Naval Academy over race-based admissions policies | CNN Politics

The US Naval Academy was sued Thursday over its use of race in its admissions practices by the same anti-affirmative action group whose lawsuits against Harvard and the University of North Carolina led the Supreme Court to declare race-based admissions policies unlawful earlier this year.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com

... so here are some stats 2023 to 2027.
Year/Class Size/White.
2027/1175/633.
2026/1184/676.
2025/1183/672.
2024/1194/855.
2023/1181/696.
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... so where do I begin, highly charge issue. Since we're all anonymous here and probably have a kid(s) in the yard, I'll start with my .02 cents. Apologized in advance if I sound off with political incorrect views. I'm going to use my DS '26 as an example. If this knuckle head Anti-Affirmative Group wins, then the follow on class size will be loaded with prep school grads from all over with tuition from K-12 to the tune of $25,000-63,000 annually. I know this for a fact because my DS has a roommate in HS who paid for a shoe costing $2000.00. Also, one of his classmates travels in a private jet. With my DS, I paid for tutoring in Physics, Chemistry, Calculus. For SAT, he took 5 total starting in Sophomore year. There's also a SAT prep course every Saturday for 4 hours. Why I did this?? I was in Iraq when he was 3 years old. Daily, one of my duties was to enter two hardcore villages, as in crazy hardcore insurgents. My lead vehicle was a M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. My friend, a tanker, labelled the area as a "target rich environment." Make the long story short, I basically accepted death daily. So I promised myself if I make it home alive that I will take care of DS no matter what the cost... by the way he is visiting this weekend after the six week exams, so lots of cooking in the house.
Click to expand...
 
I am one of the people rooting for the “knucklehead ant-affirmative action group” to win the lawsuits.
I believe in even playing fields. I’ve been the victim of affirmative action in employment. Although I believe that affirmative action is philosophically a good idea, its implementation is discriminatory!

My child goes to the one of the prep schools that some on this forum mock. Unlike the uber wealthy folks at his school, he doesn’t have fancy shoes, tutors and boat loads of money.
He receives about 70% financial aid from his high school. I have worked 3 jobs for a very long time in order to pay the other 30% of tuition. Public School isn’t a great option.
When DS’s classmates heard about his intention to go to USNA, they all thought he was enlisting.
The faculty knows everything Navy offers, but the students do not. He’s the only one thinking about an SA or ROTC option in his school. He is well educated. I don’t think his school’s name should be held against him because of affirmative action (discrimination) in his quest to serve.
 
@Float4 Nice post and good on you for doing this for your son. I went to an electives fair a couple nights ago and spoke with another teacher who is sending her kids to a private school. We’ve known each other over 15 years and she said it almost apologetically. She’s doing what’s best for her two kids regardless of teaching in a public school.

P.S. If I ever mock prep schools tell me to shut up.
 
Prep schools take a lot of undeserved heat on this forum. I've encountered it in previous posts, too. By and large, the graduates of prep schools are well educated and prepared for the rigors of a SA. Perhaps some of the undeserved negativity stems from jealousy, who knows?
 
The trouble with a sentiment like "merit not other stuff" is that the family income can matter quit a bit in a kid's opportunities and achievements. That can manifest itself in test tutors or individual sport coaching and better schools and club teams for athletics. And poor kids may not get to visit college campuses, attend DECA events or ever hear about Boys State, for example. There's been a lot of prep v public discussion in this thread, but given the affluence in many suburbs the real distinction is simply socio-economic. At least around here there are a bunch of suburban schools that are far nicer than the old catholic private school my kids attend. The real gap, however, is between all those and the publics in places without the tax base to afford good sports, extra curriculars, college counseling and test prep. That will affect inner city and small rural districts alike, so it's far from a racial problem.

But the attacks on affirmative action at the universities, whatever their motivation, are going to get into the gears of admissions and start pulling out things that can help separate ability from affluence and the opportunities it can buy. Once race gets thrown out as a criteria things are going to quickly come down to money and what it buys, which will make that divide between upper middle-class and poor even more difficult to bridge and eventually the result will be a more substantial gap between officer and enlisted. Race is one way to keep Whole Candidate from meaning wealthy candidate, and eroding the idea of a healthy demographic spread at the expense of those rich enough to buy a place in line is not a wise goal.
 
NCA said:
I personally find that race-based admission process helps nobody at the end, although racial bias exists prevalently everywhere including in academic institutions.
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People with different social and cultural experiences provide diversity, which is needed in the fleet.
Couple months ago I spoke with a Captain for the Indian Navy, he was studying at the Naval War College. He told me that his day to day food was rice and milk, that is all he could get. He used to wake up at 4-5 to hike in the forest and gather firewood. that made him appreciate what he had in life, making him a very humble man.
People with these kind of experiences perceive the world in a different way, and in my opinion is what makes them good leaders.
 
NeptunePride said:
People with different social and cultural experiences provide diversity, which is needed in the fleet.
Click to expand...
This.

Say what you want in this little echo chamber, but it has been my experience that Sailors do indeed care about diversity and representation in gender, race, and socioeconomic background when they look at the wardroom.

Female sailors are more comfortable with female officers. Asian sailors seek mentorship from Asian officers and CPOs. Muslim sailors look to Muslim officers for advice. Sailors feel a connection to officers from the same hometown. It happens. There is value in those relationships built upon common ground, even if that common ground is race, gender, or religion.

Never at the expense of leadership ability and professional competency, but it's not like the USNA valedictorian is guaranteed to be the best officer in the class. Graduating first in the class at ADOC or Dahlgren means you'll be the best TAO on the ship, right? Since when did academic performance equate to professional competency like that?

There is something lost when we build an officer corps that is exceedingly male, WASP, from upper middle-class suburbia. As with many things, either extreme is bad. Last I checked, we're headed towards an officer corps that isn't even remotely close to the composition of our enlisted ranks.
 
In the end, unless proven otherwise, racism is so profitable it must be perpetuated.
 
In my house, we are not WASP, we are not upper middle-class and we’re not from suburbia.
We pretty much live by 2 rules:
1. Work hard
2. Be nice

I do not want to be judged by gender, race, religion or political persuasion!
Treat and judge us as individuals without bias.
 
Set the standard, maintain the standard and live the standard.

Set the standard
Establish a level of excellence in whatever activity or job you are performing.

Maintain the standard
Maintain an accepted level of performance and quality.

Live the standard
Actually live what you preach. No if ands or buts. No reservations, restrictions, or excuses. NONE !

Walk the walk don’t just talk. Easier said than done.
 
Float4 said:
In my house, we are not WASP, we are not upper middle-class and we’re not from suburbia.
We pretty much live by 2 rules:
1. Work hard
2. Be nice

I do not want to be judged by gender, race, religion or political persuasion!
Treat and judge us as individuals without bias.
Click to expand...
It's not a choice any of us gets to make.

At the end of the day the weapons systems and platforms don't matter--we work with people. People have problems. Officers solve problems. We want these people to come to us with their problems to solve. Differing perspectives, experience, and backgrounds helps diversify thinking, personal values, and ultimately problem-solving.

Some of the most approachable officers for junior sailors are the Mustangs. They have a common background as enlisted. They have relatable experiences. The perspective and approach to problem-solving is markedly different.

The guy that's only ever known high school and fancy college at the boat school and has never lived in barracks is missing something. At the same time he might have a much fresher, almost outside, perspective of the Navy that someone with 16 years in the "system" lost long ago.

Race, gender, religion, family, economic environment, and cultural values provide similar variations in perspective.
 
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Float4 said:
In my house, we are not WASP, we are not upper middle-class and we’re not from suburbia.
We pretty much live by 2 rules:
1. Work hard
2. Be nice

I do not want to be judged by gender, race, religion or political persuasion!
Treat and judge us as individuals without bias.
Click to expand...
It is naive to think you act without bias. We judge each other all the time by all of those things and more. I don't want to be judged, I want to be understood. When you understand me, you can be a better leader for me. When I can understand you, I can better understand how to treat you.
 
nuensis said:
This.

Say what you want in this little echo chamber, but it has been my experience that Sailors do indeed care about diversity and representation in gender, race, and socioeconomic background when they look at the wardroom.

Female sailors are more comfortable with female officers. Asian sailors seek mentorship from Asian officers and CPOs. Muslim sailors look to Muslim officers for advice. Sailors feel a connection to officers from the same hometown. It happens. There is value in those relationships built upon common ground, even if that common ground is race, gender, or religion.

Never at the expense of leadership ability and professional competency, but it's not like the USNA valedictorian is guaranteed to be the best officer in the class. Graduating first in the class at ADOC or Dahlgren means you'll be the best TAO on the ship, right? Since when did academic performance equate to professional competency like that?

There is something lost when we build an officer corps that is exceedingly male, WASP, from upper middle-class suburbia. As with many things, either extreme is bad. Last I checked, we're headed towards an officer corps that isn't even remotely close to the composition of our enlisted ranks.
Click to expand...
If I am an enlisted person, I want the most qualified people possible in SNCO and Officer positions. My ass is on the line...if diversity is even remotely my first priority, I should remain in the civilian world. Maybe I am just a jarhead, but I am trusting my SCNO's and Officers to make the best decision possible so maybe I don't come home in a box. Diversity can be a good thing, if shortcuts are not taken that many times end in disastrous results. Frankly, there is a perfect solution to increase diversity in the Officer ranks..it starts with ending the ridiculous rule that an Officer is required to have a college degree. There are tons of squared away Sailors and Marines (of all colors and ethnicities) that would make excellent Officers. Instead of finding ways to retain and show them a path forward, they usually end up leaving at the 4 or 6 year mark. I can't speak to the Navy, but I know that the Marines lose about 75% after their first enlistment. Some of them, I am sure the Marine Corps is happy to see them go, but there are also a ton that are great assets. If a culture is going to be fixed, the first thing that needs to change is the revolving door.
 
nuensis said:
It's not a choice any of us gets to make.

At the end of the day the weapons systems and platforms don't matter--we work with people. People have problems. Officers solve problems. We want these people to come to us with their problems to solve. Differing perspectives, experience, and backgrounds helps diversify thinking, personal values, and ultimately problem-solving.

Some of the most approachable officers for junior sailors are the Mustangs. They have a common background as enlisted. They have relatable experiences. The perspective and approach to problem-solving is markedly different.

The guy that's only ever known high school and fancy college at the boat school and has never lived in barracks is missing something.
Click to expand...
There's something to having a varied array of talents and perspectives. But also, in a life-death situation who do you want sitting in the flight station or standing OOD for example? Presumably you'd want to know that they were selected for their position based solely on their performance and competence, no matter what they look like or what their personal beliefs are. We can recognize the value of diversity without compromising selection standards.
 
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