AROTC and GPA

We spoke with the ROO at son's college - Even though my DS lost his 4yr scholarship, he is not banned from applying for a 2yr scholarship. He has to really work on his grades - switching his major will help greatly. The scholarship competition will be stiff, and focus mainly on grades. Thanks, guys, he's on his way back. I'm on my way to a nervous breakdown.

What part of TN are you in? I'll come join you for the nervous breakdown or some serious drinks - your choice. :biggrin:

Seriously, glad to hear your DS has a possible redemption in his future - my DD will need straight A's next semester to regain her merit scholarship, love her, but don't see it happening - would love for her to prove me wrong.

Oh, well - we will still hug them and be glad they're home for the summer either way:thumb:
 
What part of TN are you in? I'll come join you for the nervous breakdown or some serious drinks - your choice. :biggrin:

Seriously, glad to hear your DS has a possible redemption in his future - my DD will need straight A's next semester to regain her merit scholarship, love her, but don't see it happening - would love for her to prove me wrong.

Oh, well - we will still hug them and be glad they're home for the summer either way:thumb:

Stop by and pick me up on your way, OhioParent!

So glad to hear that he has something to work for TN Mom. Ultimately though, he is working to become an officer and don't let him forget that. Regardless of the scholarship, he is pursuing a proud and noble profession.
 
Stop by and pick me up on your way, OhioParent!

So glad to hear that he has something to work for TN Mom. Ultimately though, he is working to become an officer and don't let him forget that. Regardless of the scholarship, he is pursuing a proud and noble profession.

Come on aboard the crazy train!

Seriously, I am very proud of DS - he has learned a lot his freshman year. He set a goal and is working to achieve it.

Good luck to all the DSs and DDs out there, and especially the parents. We ride the roller coaster with them. :shake:
 
We had a senior cadet voluntarilly withdraw from classes due to fears that he would damage his G.P.A.

He did not realize the firestorm that he would bring on himself by doing this. Withdrawing from classes changed his graduation date. This is a violation of his contract since it was done without cadet command approval.

Once he informed us of what he did, we asked the question "Why would you NEED to drop from your classes less than 2 semesters from commissioning ?"

We soon discovered what the "why" was. If the student had sucked it up he would be commissioning this year. His classmates are 3 days from commissioning. The student in question was disenrolled last month and is currently awaiting his orders to report to basic training. He will be paying back his scholarship by serving on active duty.

Once you sign the contract, you cannot make unilateral decisions about your academic future. Those decisions must be made with input from the university and ROTC.
 
We had a senior cadet voluntarilly withdraw from classes due to fears that he would damage his G.P.A.

He did not realize the firestorm that he would bring on himself by doing this. Withdrawing from classes changed his graduation date. This is a violation of his contract since it was done without cadet command approval.

Once he informed us of what he did, we asked the question "Why would you NEED to drop from your classes less than 2 semesters from commissioning ?"

We soon discovered what the "why" was. If the student had sucked it up he would be commissioning this year. His classmates are 3 days from commissioning. The student in question was disenrolled last month and is currently awaiting his orders to report to basic training. He will be paying back his scholarship by serving on active duty.

Once you sign the contract, you cannot make unilateral decisions about your academic future. Those decisions must be made with input from the university and ROTC.

WOW. Thanks for reminding us all how the consequences can come down in a BIG way once you accept the military into your life. Lesson: ALWAYS talk to the PMS/ROO before making any decisions!
 
We had a senior cadet voluntarilly withdraw from classes due to fears that he would damage his G.P.A.

He did not realize the firestorm that he would bring on himself by doing this. Withdrawing from classes changed his graduation date. This is a violation of his contract since it was done without cadet command approval.

Once he informed us of what he did, we asked the question "Why would you NEED to drop from your classes less than 2 semesters from commissioning ?"

We soon discovered what the "why" was. If the student had sucked it up he would be commissioning this year. His classmates are 3 days from commissioning. The student in question was disenrolled last month and is currently awaiting his orders to report to basic training. He will be paying back his scholarship by serving on active duty.

Once you sign the contract, you cannot make unilateral decisions about your academic future. Those decisions must be made with input from the university and ROTC.

Marist,

I have just a couple questions regarding your post.

When you said "Senior Cadet" did you mean that the cadet was in his senior year at school. Had this cadet already gone through accessions for branch. It would seem odd to withdraw from classes so close to commissioning.

I only ask because of my son's experience. My son just completed his MS3 year. Over the last 3 years he has withdrawn form 2 classes, one because he switched majors the 2nd semester of his freshman year and did not need the class for his new major. The 2nd class he withdrew from was during the first semester of his junior year. He withdrew from the class because he felt overloaded that semester and I am sure it also had to do with not wanting to lower his GPA his junior year.

Both times he met with his advisor and they went over his 4 year plan to make sure he could still graduate in the 4 years even with dropping the classes. He is still on track and in fact will have a light load the last semester of his senior year.

I bring this up because of what you mentioned about having approval from CC. My son never contacted CC, I am not sure he even mentioned it to his cadre. The cadre have them update the 104R form each year and go over it with them to make sure they are on track. Nothing has ever been brought up about the classes he withdrew from and he is still on track to graduate in the 4 year timeframe.

If I read between the lines of your post, by dropping classes the cadet made it impossible to graduate on time, is that the case. Was his disenrollement due to being unable to graduate on time or was it because he did not get approval from CC to drop the classes.

My son's battalion had a MS4 this year that was injured, believe it or not it was during the Army/Navy ROTC Football Game. He missed a bit of class time and was unable to catch up and the proffessors didn't work with him to help much. He ended up failing 2 classes, he did not commission with the rest of his class, he is taking the classes during an accelerated summer session and is able to commission at the end of June. Did this happen because he worked with the cadre to work things out.

I ask all this just for a clarification for other cadets that may find themselves in a situation where they are failing a class and are considering dropping that class. Is dropping the class the issue or is graduating on time the issue. There have been several cadets my son knows of that have dropped a class and took it again to improve their GPA's, all are still on track to graduate, they just had to have a heavier load one semester to catch up.

Sorry for the jumbled post and thank you for your input.
 
The cadet was an academic senior, ie MSIV. He had already completed LDAC. He was GRFD, Guaranteed Reserve Force Duty. His accessions process was different from the standard process, but he had completed all of his accessions counseling.

He broke the terms of the contract by withdrawing from a class without permission from cadet command. Based on "letter of the law", that is enough to recommend disenrollment. Disenrollment is not a foregone conclusion. There is a review, an inquiry, appeals, etc.

The cadet in question disenrolled from ALL of his classes for the semester without permission.

Marist,

I have just a couple questions regarding your post.

When you said "Senior Cadet" did you mean that the cadet was in his senior year at school. Had this cadet already gone through accessions for branch. It would seem odd to withdraw from classes so close to commissioning.

I only ask because of my son's experience. My son just completed his MS3 year. Over the last 3 years he has withdrawn form 2 classes, one because he switched majors the 2nd semester of his freshman year and did not need the class for his new major. The 2nd class he withdrew from was during the first semester of his junior year. He withdrew from the class because he felt overloaded that semester and I am sure it also had to do with not wanting to lower his GPA his junior year.

Both times he met with his advisor and they went over his 4 year plan to make sure he could still graduate in the 4 years even with dropping the classes. He is still on track and in fact will have a light load the last semester of his senior year.

I bring this up because of what you mentioned about having approval from CC. My son never contacted CC, I am not sure he even mentioned it to his cadre. The cadre have them update the 104R form each year and go over it with them to make sure they are on track. Nothing has ever been brought up about the classes he withdrew from and he is still on track to graduate in the 4 year timeframe.

If I read between the lines of your post, by dropping classes the cadet made it impossible to graduate on time, is that the case. Was his disenrollement due to being unable to graduate on time or was it because he did not get approval from CC to drop the classes.

My son's battalion had a MS4 this year that was injured, believe it or not it was during the Army/Navy ROTC Football Game. He missed a bit of class time and was unable to catch up and the proffessors didn't work with him to help much. He ended up failing 2 classes, he did not commission with the rest of his class, he is taking the classes during an accelerated summer session and is able to commission at the end of June. Did this happen because he worked with the cadre to work things out.

I ask all this just for a clarification for other cadets that may find themselves in a situation where they are failing a class and are considering dropping that class. Is dropping the class the issue or is graduating on time the issue. There have been several cadets my son knows of that have dropped a class and took it again to improve their GPA's, all are still on track to graduate, they just had to have a heavier load one semester to catch up.

Sorry for the jumbled post and thank you for your input.
 
The cadet was an academic senior, ie MSIV. He had already completed LDAC. He was GRFD, Guaranteed Reserve Force Duty. His accessions process was different from the standard process, but he had completed all of his accessions counseling.

He broke the terms of the contract by withdrawing from a class without permission from cadet command. Based on "letter of the law", that is enough to recommend disenrollment. Disenrollment is not a foregone conclusion. There is a review, an inquiry, appeals, etc.

The cadet in question disenrolled from ALL of his classes for the semester without permission.

Well that sure didn't seem like a smart idea on the cadets part.

So to be perfectly clear, if a cadet withdraws from a class even though it would not affect there graduation date because they could take that class the next semester, the cadet could be recommended for disenrollment if they did not clear it through Cadet Command.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I understand completely, this is good information for future cadets to know, thank you for bringing it to everyones attention.
 
They could be. It is unlikely given the exact scenario you described. If there were other factors involved, then the chances would increase.

If a cadet has a 2.0 cumulative G.P.A. and I had misgivings about their potential to lead soldiers, I would be more likely to initiate disenrollment. If a cadet has a 4.0 and dropped a class because they feared getting a B+, but would still graduate on time, then it is highly unlikely it would be held against them.

Bottom line is: Ask permission from ROTC before you make any changes to the sequence of classes that you agreed to on your 104R.

Well that sure didn't seem like a smart idea on the cadets part.

So to be perfectly clear, if a cadet withdraws from a class even though it would not affect there graduation date because they could take that class the next semester, the cadet could be recommended for disenrollment if they did not clear it through Cadet Command.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I understand completely, this is good information for future cadets to know, thank you for bringing it to everyones attention.
 
They could be. It is unlikely given the exact scenario you described. If there were other factors involved, then the chances would increase.

If a cadet has a 2.0 cumulative G.P.A. and I had misgivings about their potential to lead soldiers, I would be more likely to initiate disenrollment. If a cadet has a 4.0 and dropped a class because they feared getting a B+, but would still graduate on time, then it is highly unlikely it would be held against them.

Bottom line is: Ask permission from ROTC before you make any changes to the sequence of classes that you agreed to on your 104R.

The 104R is the academic plan that is expected to be adhered to going into any term. However, the academic plan is often the first casualty of scheduling conflicts (sounds just like battle plans being the first casualty of war), be sure to keep the chain of command updated as to the ability to follow the exact plan and changes necessary to keep the original objective (the 4-year degree in 4 years) within the new attack plan.

It may be a new 104R for every semester for a while (until the underclassman can get high enough up the food chain to enroll in the planned classes before they are filled), but the cadre understand that this happens.
 
My son hasn't been able to follow his 4 year plan right on schedule because he either can't get in the original classes he wanted or they aren't offering it. Does this mean that he could be in any kind of trouble?
He goes to a very large university and getting into classes is a nightmare. Combine the closed classes with the fact that when you have to take ROTC and lab and it's not easy.
 
Is he scholarship?

Has he spoken to the command about this issue, or are they under the assumption he will graduate on time? Can he take summer courses and transfer them in so he can graduate on time? Are you talking about 1 semester late, or an entire yr?

He needs to speak to them ASAP, and work it through with them. There is no clear concise answer up or down because many factors go into the equation.

I wouldn't freak just yet, freak when the command says if you don't graduate on time we will not commission you.

I will say for the AFROTC world because of the DOD budget cuts and force re-shaping, it would require a waiver from the CC. That means paperwork will be submitted through the AFROTC chain, and they have a final voice. It is common for them to give it if you are on the 5 yr engineering plan, because there was no way to begin with that you would graduate in 4. Non-tech not so much.

Just curious, how did the school allow him to get behind? DS also attends a very large university (40K ft/pt students), but the advisors have always been able to re-jig/substitute classes for his major and if not they worked with the school and ROTC to get the teacher to add him onto their rolls. He only did this 1x, but I know as a parent how panicked you can become when they are flipping out.

ROTC can also be an invaluable asset when a child is closed out of a class.

Good luck, don't freak, just talk to the BN, go from there.
 
Pima, he isn't behind at all and just finished his freshman year with a really strong GPA and is on scholarship. He is just not following the 4 year plan exactly due to closed classes.
I put the question because Marist had made the comment about asking permission before you make any changes to the sequence of classes.
 
If you read deeper into Marist's post the cadet's graduation date was going to change.

Of course, it is going to bring a firestorm, because in the end of the day the military has manpower goals...if they allowed every ROTC cadet to graduate a yr later, it would impact them.

ROTC isn't going to care what classes he takes as long as he fulfills the requirements to graduate on time. They don't care if he takes quantum math over stat if the school says A OK. They are not versed in every majors reqs. All they care is that he graduates on time, in the major, and with a gpa at or above the mins. set forth for the scholarship. Again, if they say he needs 2 semesters of foreign language, and do not stipulate it must be the same language, they won't care as long as he has 2 semesters of foreign language.

Marist was talking about a cadet gaming the system because of their gpa.
 
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Each semester Army ROTC students must complete a plan of courses to graduation. If there are deviations from that plan - they must get it approved.

Lots of kids withdraw, change majors and take summer courses without repercussions. They followed the protocol and got their changes approved.
When you get to your senior year - months from commissioning - and suddenly change your course of study to purposefully delay graduation and commissioning - there is gonna be a problem. The Army won't look too kindly on a Cadet who they have spent a lot of money on - to suddenly drag his feet.
 
A new 104R because the classes on his previous 104R are being taken in different semesters shouldn't be an issue for the cadre to sign off on. It is when a cadet is in a major (like engineering) with long prerequisite chains that get FUBAR that gets the cadre nervous.
 
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