AROTC Scholarship vaccine religious exemption question

NickHarlan said:
My daughter is a freshman at a SMC on a 3 year AROTC scholarship. She has been told she needs to be vaccinated or seek an exemption by May of this year. She is 100% opposed to getting the vaccine and is seeking a religious exemption. I have some questions/requests:
1. If anyone has any insight in seeking religious exemption (from any branch) I would be most appreciative of any guidance.
2. Given changes that might happen with mandates would she be able to “keep” her scholarship even if she does not qualify come August? How long does she have to qualify before she loses scholarship?
3. It would be a hardship but we could pay her tuition and board and forego scholarship and hope the army lifts mandate before she graduates. For someone who very much wants to serve would this be a reasonable option?

Thank you
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1. The only insight that I have is that less than 1% of religious exemptions have been approved. We have one pending for a cadet, so we'll see how that goes. IMO, most won't be approved, as 99%+ of troops have established a precedent in receiving vaccines, that are not against their religion. What is the difference between those vaccines and COVID in terms of religion. If the issue is the mRNA technology, then the J&J was created along the same means as traditional virus-based vaccines.

2. 3AD Scholarships are validated in July, meaning that all contracting requirements have been met. Historically, scholarships have been taken away if they are not validated. We are in new territory so, I expect that hers won't be taken away in July if she still has an exemption pending. My expectation, however is that all exemption requests will be resolved by this Summer, as that is the deadline for a lot of COVID based military separations. If she retains her scholarship offer after July, she would have to contract NLT DEC 2022, or lose the scholarship. To be contracted, you have to be COVID vaccinated or have received an exemption.

3. I wouldn't say it's reasonable, as I would bet money that the military would not repeal the mandate. The only way that would happen if COVID-19 was eradicated like smallpox. Although the military still gives smallpox vaccinations (I have the scar) if you deploy to certain theater. The military also stills administer Anthrax vaccinations, under EUA, for certain theater of operations as well. However, to get back on point, that option is a possibility, as that at an SMC you can still part of the Corps of cadet and complete ROTC training and not be contracted. SMCs can also contract members of the Corps of Cadet their senior years. These things, normal ROTC program can't do.

What follows is my opinion, so feel free to skip over.

The only advice I can give, is that your daughter needs to determine what is more important to her, commissioned service or being unvaccinated. Service is a key component of being in the military and you are forced to do things that you are against but supports the greater good. Many people in the military have had to kill/injure another human being. I am curious of the religious justification, that killing another is morally acceptable, but receiving a vaccination (that may save a life) is not? Not judging, each person is free to to their own thoughts and opinion, just a component of the debate that I don't understand.
 
MohawkArmyROTC said:
1. The only insight that I have is that less than 1% of religious exemptions have been approved. We have one pending for a cadet, so we'll see how that goes. IMO, most won't be approved, as 99%+ of troops have established a precedent in receiving vaccines, that are not against their religion. What is the difference between those vaccines and COVID in terms of religion. If the issue is the mRNA technology, then the J&J was created along the same means as traditional virus-based vaccines.

2. 3AD Scholarships are validated in July, meaning that all contracting requirements have been met. Historically, scholarships have been taken away if they are not validated. We are in new territory so, I expect that hers won't be taken away in July if she still has an exemption pending. My expectation, however is that all exemption requests will be resolved by this Summer, as that is the deadline for a lot of COVID based military separations. If she retains her scholarship offer after July, she would have to contract NLT DEC 2022, or lose the scholarship. To be contracted, you have to be COVID vaccinated or have received an exemption.

3. I wouldn't say it's reasonable, as I would bet money that the military would not repeal the mandate. The only way that would happen if COVID-19 was eradicated like smallpox. Although the military still gives smallpox vaccinations (I have the scar) if you deploy to certain theater. The military also stills administer Anthrax vaccinations, under EUA, for certain theater of operations as well. However, to get back on point, that option is a possibility, as that at an SMC you can still part of the Corps of cadet and complete ROTC training and not be contracted. SMCs can also contract members of the Corps of Cadet their senior years. These things, normal ROTC program can't do.

What follows is my opinion, so feel free to skip over.

The only advice I can give, is that your daughter needs to determine what is more important to her, commissioned service or being unvaccinated. Service is a key component of being in the military and you are forced to do things that you are against but supports the greater good. Many people in the military have had to kill/injure another human being. I am curious of the religious justification, that killing another is morally acceptable, but receiving a vaccination (that may save a life) is not? Not judging, each person is free to to their own thoughts and opinion, just a component of the debate that I don't understand.
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That, was amazing.
 
I thought this thread had run it's course but the above response, common as it is, in relation to the covid vaccine makes me wonder what the future may bring and what the response will be.

I can see all of these things happening in the future and the response for those that hesitate will be the same. And I am not saying that is the wrong response. However people may be uncomfortable with these types of actions and face decisions in the future much as they are now for the vaccine.

Military says its members may only use a military provided debit card for all financial transactions. Cash is not allowed as it can be used for unauthorized purchases such as cocaine laced with fentanyl. We cannot spend $500,000 educating our future officers and lose them to spring break indiscretions. Possession of cash may also be an indication of bribery or corruption by a foreign power or defense contractor. Therefore going forward it is forbidden. Military personnel found in possession of cash may be separated. All transactions on the provided debit card will be subject to scrutiny. Charges found to be disruptive or that support groups linked to white supremacy or domestic terrorist organizations will be cause for discipline. A list if these groups will be available to all service members and will be subject to additions and revisions as necessary.

Military will provide all members with an implanted device to store their health information including blood type and vaccination status. Service members will no longer be burdened with carrying separate items (dog tags, vaccine cards) to verify this important health information. "We need to focus on the mission of warfighting and frankly these things are a distraction. Going forward our brave men and women can be 100% focused on the job and not be distracted by carrying around 19th century answers to 21st century problems."

In a sweeping effort of modernization the military has announced that all implanted devices will be upgraded to work as part of a two step authentication process for access to military facilities. "In the past photo ID was good enough but today the fakes provided by hostile foreign powers such as Russia are too good. We have the best personnel in the world but even they on occasion are fooled by these false identifications. Going forward this additional step will make it much harder for infiltrators to slip in. There is also the added bonus of displaying vaccine status every time someone attempts to enter a restricted area. We can screen out those who pose a risk to operational readiness at the same time as we ensure only authorized people are getting in. With that protection in mind we will be expanding this program to all contractors and military families."

In what has been described as a major upgrade in readiness the military announced today that its records program will be upgraded to include tracking functionality on it's required implantable devices. "This is a great program for military readiness. Now, when the need arises, we will know the location of our service members at all times. When an emergency arises commanders will have real time access to the important location information needed to gather their troops. If a soldier or sailor is missing, we can reach out and help them. If they are late for a meeting, stuck in traffic, we can get real time data on when they can be there. No more mystery or wasted time. If we need to activate the National Guard we know where they are and when they can get to where the need to be. This is a great day for readiness."

The military responded today regarding a rash of separations some are saying are related to the recent upgrade in readiness. "Yes, there have been a small number of incidents were military personal have been determined to be in violation of local law. If the speed limit on the base access road is 45MPH and our data says a soldier was travelling at 57MPH then we know a violation has taken place. Usually it is just someone late to a meeting doing there best not to inconvenience others but when a pattern emerges then that member will receive feedback and corrective action as necessary. It is only in the rarest of occasions that we need to separate someone because of ongoing violations of regulations. If we see you on our map eating at Charlies Best Burgers off base we know they are a cash only establishment and that is a red flag. However that may just be an indication of a meeting with friends or family members who are still authorized (though not encouraged) to pay for their meals with cash. Look, 99% of our members have no problems following the rules. There are always a small number that have difficulties or the occasional slip up but with our upgraded and modernized system we have been able to identify many of these people up front before the military wastes money training them. And they get to move on to productive careers in the private sector. It is a win win situation, but still, don't speed on the base access road or be seen it Charlies Best to often."

I was thinking of this serious at first and then tongue in cheek but really all of this is not that far fetched and certainly possible with today's technology. All of it supports force readiness and while some may think it a bit intrusive then are they just thinking of themselves or are they of a mindset that should exclude them from military service? Are any of these over the line or is this all reasonable and to be expected within the next 5-10 years?
 
cb7893 said:
Explain to me how my family physician received benefit from my receiving the vaccine administered by the county health department and the booster administered in a grocery store pharmacy?

Sounds like you need to find a different family physician.
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I'm not saying he/she has. I just don't want that to influence any advice.
 
JP4 said:
I thought this thread had run it's course but the above response, common as it is, in relation to the covid vaccine makes me wonder what the future may bring and what the response will be.

I can see all of these things happening in the future and the response for those that hesitate will be the same. And I am not saying that is the wrong response. However people may be uncomfortable with these types of actions and face decisions in the future much as they are now for the vaccine.

Military says its members may only use a military provided debit card for all financial transactions. Cash is not allowed as it can be used for unauthorized purchases such as cocaine laced with fentanyl. We cannot spend $500,000 educating our future officers and lose them to spring break indiscretions. Possession of cash may also be an indication of bribery or corruption by a foreign power or defense contractor. Therefore going forward it is forbidden. Military personnel found in possession of cash may be separated. All transactions on the provided debit card will be subject to scrutiny. Charges found to be disruptive or that support groups linked to white supremacy or domestic terrorist organizations will be cause for discipline. A list if these groups will be available to all service members and will be subject to additions and revisions as necessary.

Military will provide all members with an implanted device to store their health information including blood type and vaccination status. Service members will no longer be burdened with carrying separate items (dog tags, vaccine cards) to verify this important health information. "We need to focus on the mission of warfighting and frankly these things are a distraction. Going forward our brave men and women can be 100% focused on the job and not be distracted by carrying around 19th century answers to 21st century problems."

In a sweeping effort of modernization the military has announced that all implanted devices will be upgraded to work as part of a two step authentication process for access to military facilities. "In the past photo ID was good enough but today the fakes provided by hostile foreign powers such as Russia are too good. We have the best personnel in the world but even they on occasion are fooled by these false identifications. Going forward this additional step will make it much harder for infiltrators to slip in. There is also the added bonus of displaying vaccine status every time someone attempts to enter a restricted area. We can screen out those who pose a risk to operational readiness at the same time as we ensure only authorized people are getting in. With that protection in mind we will be expanding this program to all contractors and military families."

In what has been described as a major upgrade in readiness the military announced today that its records program will be upgraded to include tracking functionality on it's required implantable devices. "This is a great program for military readiness. Now, when the need arises, we will know the location of our service members at all times. When an emergency arises commanders will have real time access to the important location information needed to gather their troops. If a soldier or sailor is missing, we can reach out and help them. If they are late for a meeting, stuck in traffic, we can get real time data on when they can be there. No more mystery or wasted time. If we need to activate the National Guard we know where they are and when they can get to where the need to be. This is a great day for readiness."

The military responded today regarding a rash of separations some are saying are related to the recent upgrade in readiness. "Yes, there have been a small number of incidents were military personal have been determined to be in violation of local law. If the speed limit on the base access road is 45MPH and our data says a soldier was travelling at 57MPH then we know a violation has taken place. Usually it is just someone late to a meeting doing there best not to inconvenience others but when a pattern emerges then that member will receive feedback and corrective action as necessary. It is only in the rarest of occasions that we need to separate someone because of ongoing violations of regulations. If we see you on our map eating at Charlies Best Burgers off base we know they are a cash only establishment and that is a red flag. However that may just be an indication of a meeting with friends or family members who are still authorized (though not encouraged) to pay for their meals with cash. Look, 99% of our members have no problems following the rules. There are always a small number that have difficulties or the occasional slip up but with our upgraded and modernized system we have been able to identify many of these people up front before the military wastes money training them. And they get to move on to productive careers in the private sector. It is a win win situation, but still, don't speed on the base access road or be seen it Charlies Best to often."

I was thinking of this serious at first and then tongue in cheek but really all of this is not that far fetched and certainly possible with today's technology. All of it supports force readiness and while some may think it a bit intrusive then are they just thinking of themselves or are they of a mindset that should exclude them from military service? Are any of these over the line or is this all reasonable and to be expected within the next 5-10 years?
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I understand a lot of people get a little weirded about my mandates of any kind and start asking "what's next?" Keep in mind, though, that this leads into the slippery slope fallacy if we're not careful.

I, like a lot of people, am not always a fan of being told by the government what to do. Sometimes, however, the government is right, and we should listen to it. We kinda just gotta look at things on a case-by-case basis and see what makes sense.

What's wild is the tech you described already exists for the most part (RFID implants and trackers). I know you were kinda joking but I don't think the military would be interested in GPS tracking on every soldier (imagine if that got hacked!!). Those scenarios gave me a good chuckle but I think anything like that is pretty unlikely haha.
 
I agree. But for those few examples all of which are possible now would any be deal breakers? I think for many people they would not.

I was actually going to delete this and move it to off topic as a separate discussion so it doesn't derail this particular discussion on religious exemptions but it is responsive to the many people that have as a first thought "you are in the military so you do what you are told. If you question something (covid vaccine in this instance) then you really should rethink your career choice.
 
If you can’t tolerate risk then by all means don’t join the US military

If you don’t want the US govt telling you what to do , whatever you do, do not join the US military.

Lets face it people that think they want the military and then deciding they will join then live a life of individual choice are just not the type that should be joining any military.




JP4 said:
I agree. But for those few examples all of which are possible now would any be deal breakers? I think for many people they would not.

I was actually going to delete this and move it to off topic as a separate discussion so it doesn't derail this particular discussion on religious exemptions but it is responsive to the many people that have as a first thought "you are in the military so you do what you are told. If you question something (covid vaccine in this instance) then you really should rethink your career choice.
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MohawkArmyROTC said:
1. The only insight that I have is that less than 1% of religious exemptions have been approved. We have one pending for a cadet, so we'll see how that goes. IMO, most won't be approved, as 99%+ of troops have established a precedent in receiving vaccines, that are not against their religion. What is the difference between those vaccines and COVID in terms of religion. If the issue is the mRNA technology, then the J&J was created along the same means as traditional virus-based vaccines.

2. 3AD Scholarships are validated in July, meaning that all contracting requirements have been met. Historically, scholarships have been taken away if they are not validated. We are in new territory so, I expect that hers won't be taken away in July if she still has an exemption pending. My expectation, however is that all exemption requests will be resolved by this Summer, as that is the deadline for a lot of COVID based military separations. If she retains her scholarship offer after July, she would have to contract NLT DEC 2022, or lose the scholarship. To be contracted, you have to be COVID vaccinated or have received an exemption.

3. I wouldn't say it's reasonable, as I would bet money that the military would not repeal the mandate. The only way that would happen if COVID-19 was eradicated like smallpox. Although the military still gives smallpox vaccinations (I have the scar) if you deploy to certain theater. The military also stills administer Anthrax vaccinations, under EUA, for certain theater of operations as well. However, to get back on point, that option is a possibility, as that at an SMC you can still part of the Corps of cadet and complete ROTC training and not be contracted. SMCs can also contract members of the Corps of Cadet their senior years. These things, normal ROTC program can't do.

What follows is my opinion, so feel free to skip over.

The only advice I can give, is that your daughter needs to determine what is more important to her, commissioned service or being unvaccinated. Service is a key component of being in the military and you are forced to do things that you are against but supports the greater good. Many people in the military have had to kill/injure another human being. I am curious of the religious justification, that killing another is morally acceptable, but receiving a vaccination (that may save a life) is not? Not judging, each person is free to to their own thoughts and opinion, just a component of the debate that I don't understand.
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Thank you for taking the time to provide this very helpful information and insight. This was exactly what we were looking for. Much appreciated.
 
NickHarlan said:
Again there is a reason congress specifically forbids the military from mandating non approved vaccines. It’s to avoid individual leaders from inserting their political or religious views on our service members.
The anger and intolerance in some of these replies is disheartening. Just asking for information on how to navigate the process. There is a 19 year old young lady who very much wants to serve being faced with a very serious decision and I had hoped to get some insight here to help her make HER decision.
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I'm in the Same boat !! Message me and I can give you what advice I have received.
 
Anonymous1211 said:
They are one and the same. All vials produced for EUA have been approved for use. Thus because a vial states "COVID-19 Vaccine" and not "SpikeVax" or "Comirnaty" does not mean that a person is receiving a non-FDA approved vaccine. They are identical. To state otherwise is quite simply conspiracy theory. It will not "help forward the discussion" either way. The FDA says they are approved, and so they are regardless of what Alex Jones might say.

According to FDA, "On January 31, 2022, the FDA announced the second approval of a COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Spikevax, for the prevention of COVID-19 in individuals 18 years of age and older. Spikevax has the same formulation as the EUA Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine and is administered as a primary series of two doses, one month apart. Spikevax can be used interchangeably with the EUA Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series."

Case closed. End of discussion. Remove foil cover from head.
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Dude, you sound like a ******....
 
Navy1 said:
Dude, you sound like a ******....
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And you sound like someone who doesn't like what you read and needed to lash out at others...which makes you the a******. If you read all the threads you will see that the OP obtained the information they wanted and the thread ended with no ill will....so what is your point in trying to start something by insulting those who have years of experience. My mama taught me that if you have nothing good to say, just leave it alone....time for you to move on.
 
My son is nearing the end of his first year at a SMC. He was awarded at 3 year Army ROTC scholarship - prior to the start of his "Freshman Year" (fall of 2021). This scholarship was to take effect fall of his sophomore year (Fall of 2022). Brief Medical History as it relates to our position on the vaccine: He contracted Myocarditis during his sophomore year in HS. He was a dual sport athlete in HS and his activities were restricted. He was cleared to resume sports and physical activities 4 months later (sophomore year) and his condition was fully resolved with no issues (it was like he never had it - Miracle for sure. He was was/is excellent shape and was a recruited athlete (in his primary sport) and was able to pursue his dream of playing NCAA DI and was on track to serve his country (which is what he wanted to do all of his life). He plays his chosen sport at the NCAA Division 1 level and is also starter on this team. Living the dream right?

All medical records/test/etc were disclosed and submitted to the SMC and DoDMERB since the very beginning (During the ROTC application process, athletic recruiting and admission process and was cleared by the SMC (school) and DoDMERB.

SMC required the COVID vaccination or medical waiver. My DS was granted a vaccination waiver by the SMC (School) prior to the start of the school year - as his cardiologist was against him getting the vaccination due to his past history of Myocarditis and risks associated with the COVID vaccines as it specifically relates to Myocarditis/Cardiac Issues. Updated letters were also forwarded to the school prior to his return for the second semester. This information was also submitted to the ROTC staff.

He is in tremendous shape and has had NO issues since his recovery in HS. He even contracted COVID during the last holiday break and prior to his return to school (like many at his SMC and Team). My DS had no complications, No issues with COVID and completed NCAA return to play protocols with flying colors. As we know many who were vaccinated still contracted COVID during this time. It is common knowledge that this was case at the school as well.

My DS was told by the ROTC staff during the beginning of the second semester (late Jan/Feb) at his SMC that it did not look good for a waiver. My DS was was told his paperwork would go forward for a decision. Fast forward to today, my DS was supposed to meet the top commanding ROTC Official/Officer (forgive my military ignorance here) today but found out the meeting was cancelled. My DS was not notified of the cancellation, but was able to speak with the ROTC staff. One of the ROTC staff members advised my son, that he needs to be vaccinated or his paperwork cannot go forward. We are confused as we thought a medical waiver would be pursued/considered. There was no discussion about getting a waiver submitted. My DS does not have a DoDMERB number, which he has been told means he is no longer being considered. My DS and my family are NOT anti-vexers, family members including myself have been vaccinated. It is my DS's understanding that he has no recourse, no avenue for appeal and has be vaccinated or be dropped. My concern is there seems to be a major disconnect here. My DS was under the impression/understanding that a medical waiver was being sought/submitted and being pursued on his behalf. We now understand this may not have been done. From previous posts on this forum, we understand that the vaccination or a medical waiver (in process) would be necessary for further processing by May. I am puzzled why a medical waiver was not being pursued on my DS's behalf, when it seems like this is a viable option.

Can any help us shed some light on this situation.
 
Op5 said:
My son is nearing the end of his first year at a SMC. He was awarded at 3 year Army ROTC scholarship - prior to the start of his "Freshman Year" (fall of 2021). This scholarship was to take effect fall of his sophomore year (Fall of 2022). Brief Medical History as it relates to our position on the vaccine: He contracted Myocarditis during his sophomore year in HS. He was a dual sport athlete in HS and his activities were restricted. He was cleared to resume sports and physical activities 4 months later (sophomore year) and his condition was fully resolved with no issues (it was like he never had it - Miracle for sure. He was was/is excellent shape and was a recruited athlete (in his primary sport) and was able to pursue his dream of playing NCAA DI and was on track to serve his country (which is what he wanted to do all of his life). He plays his chosen sport at the NCAA Division 1 level and is also starter on this team. Living the dream right?

All medical records/test/etc were disclosed and submitted to the SMC and DoDMERB since the very beginning (During the ROTC application process, athletic recruiting and admission process and was cleared by the SMC (school) and DoDMERB.

SMC required the COVID vaccination or medical waiver. My DS was granted a vaccination waiver by the SMC (School) prior to the start of the school year - as his cardiologist was against him getting the vaccination due to his past history of Myocarditis and risks associated with the COVID vaccines as it specifically relates to Myocarditis/Cardiac Issues. Updated letters were also forwarded to the school prior to his return for the second semester. This information was also submitted to the ROTC staff.

He is in tremendous shape and has had NO issues since his recovery in HS. He even contracted COVID during the last holiday break and prior to his return to school (like many at his SMC and Team). My DS had no complications, No issues with COVID and completed NCAA return to play protocols with flying colors. As we know many who were vaccinated still contracted COVID during this time. It is common knowledge that this was case at the school as well.

My DS was told by the ROTC staff during the beginning of the second semester (late Jan/Feb) at his SMC that it did not look good for a waiver. My DS was was told his paperwork would go forward for a decision. Fast forward to today, my DS was supposed to meet the top commanding ROTC Official/Officer (forgive my military ignorance here) today but found out the meeting was cancelled. My DS was not notified of the cancellation, but was able to speak with the ROTC staff. One of the ROTC staff members advised my son, that he needs to be vaccinated or his paperwork cannot go forward. We are confused as we thought a medical waiver would be pursued/considered. There was no discussion about getting a waiver submitted. My DS does not have a DoDMERB number, which he has been told means he is no longer being considered. My DS and my family are NOT anti-vexers, family members including myself have been vaccinated. It is my DS's understanding that he has no recourse, no avenue for appeal and has be vaccinated or be dropped. My concern is there seems to be a major disconnect here. My DS was under the impression/understanding that a medical waiver was being sought/submitted and being pursued on his behalf. We now understand this may not have been done. From previous posts on this forum, we understand that the vaccination or a medical waiver (in process) would be necessary for further processing by May. I am puzzled why a medical waiver was not being pursued on my DS's behalf, when it seems like this is a viable option.

Can any help us shed some light on this situation.
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@MohawkArmyROTC likely would be most qualified to answer this question. Hopefully, Mohawk can shed some light on your situation.
 
You should post a short note in the DoDMERB section explaining what is going on. Mr Mullen over there will probably want your son to email him. In my opinion I think there is a misunderstanding between what a medical waiver is vs. what a vaccine waiver is. I will let Mr. Mullen address it.

You don’t have DM privileges yet because you haven’t been a member long enough and do not have enough posts.

Stealth_81
 
You may have already reached out to Mr. Mullen, and I would take whatever he tells you as the final word on anything DODMERB related.

While my experience has been on NROTC, for vaccines it tends to be similar. I am assuming when the DODMERB screening was first completed, there was discussion of your DS medical condition but not a mention of a vaccine waiver?

So, as mentioned by Stealth.....the school can grant a vaccine waiver without regard to a service medical waiver. The school allows him to study there but not commission.

For the Navy, while medical and religious accommodation requests are considered for Active Duty members, those in the IRR have a higher hurdle to pursue a medical waiver.

What isn't clear here is if the PMS has made a decision not to route a waiver request or if a higher authority has directed not to entertain a waiver.

Not to be argumentative in any way, but as this potentially winds its way through military channels, the question will be asked: If DS condition has resolved itself, then why is the waiver needed? The doctor may have a good answer, but I think that is going to be the question.
 
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