Article-Minorities Underrepresented in Nominations

Jamesfromthecountry said:
Can't 100% agree with you on that. Out of all the asians I know (including me), they hold an Equal (if not a little higher) esteem toward USMA and USNA than other SA's. Additionally, USMA and USNA is considered more "prestigious" in the eyes of Asian families due to its historical importance in the Pacific Front (think MacArthur and Nimitz).

The asians you know might just want to be pilots, and so USAFA was their #1 choice. Or they could have not been nominated to the other academies, and so USAFA was their only choice. Please don't generalize races or ethnicities.

***Not saying that 1 SA is more prestigious than others. They're equally prestigious and produce exceptional officers, which is why I applied to multiple SA's, and will attend USMA starting this summer.
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In regards to prestige, most of my community does hold USMA, USNA, and USAFA in a high regard. I never specified that USAFA was held in the same regard as USMA and USNA. I know they are held (slightly) higher.

I specifically stated this is an observation from my community and environment. A snapshot from what I see. I stated it was ironic (in regards to the Air Force) because of those asians I knew, most of them applied to USAFA based on this reasoning (explicitly telling me this, please do not assume that I merely interpreted their intentions) and I deviate from this. Apologies as this was not clear.
 
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MidCakePa said:
That’s very disappointing. What restores some of my faith in humanity is this: DS and DD attended a small private school in the most liberal county of our purple-gone-blue state. Yet the school never hesitates to welcome our local BGO to campus several times a year for presentations and meetings. Helps explain why in the past few years, a senior class of ~ 60 has produced cadets/mids for SAs and ROTC annually.
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I live in a less liberal county of a bright blue state. Socioeconomically one of the wealthiest counties in the US, it is nonetheless a very fertile ground for Service Academy recruiting. Lots of the individual High Schools might not be very open to the military but their top students keep on applying and have a great track record for getting in to the SAs. Last year, our district which is mostly this county had 7 USNA appointments, 11 USMA appointments and 2 USAFA appointments.
The schools are great and it shows in how the kids compete. Back when I was applying, I lived in a very different environment - semi-inner city majority minority system. We didn't get to see SAT stats back then but recently, newspaper reports said that the average SAT scores for my alma mater were in the neighborhood of 850 Combined. Considering that about half of the kids who have NO intention of going on educationally don't take the test, the 850 represents the average score of the kids who aspire to higher education. The test was designed for an average score of 1000 and the last time I looked, the average in the US is 1050 or so and the average in my state is 1080 so the 850 is a very low number. .
 
Skipper07 said:
Is it not important that our officer population be representative of our enlisted population?
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It does to DOD, which is why the powers that be over officer accession have been conducting outreach to increase awareness of and applications for the SAs and ROTC and OCS. Won’t be resolved overnight, but that’s the direction we’re headed in.
 
Preach said:
In regards to prestige, most of my community does hold USMA, USNA, and USAFA in a high regard. I never specified that USAFA was held in the same regard as USMA and USNA. I know they are held (slightly) higher.

I specifically stated this is an observation from my community and environment. A snapshot from what I see. I stated it was ironic (in regards to the Air Force) because of those asians I knew, most of them applied to USAFA based on this reasoning (explicitly telling me this, please do not assume that I merely interpreted their intentions) and I deviate from this. Apologies as this was not clear.
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To be fair most people can’t even name all the SAs!
 
Skipper07 said:
Is it not important that our officer population be representative of our enlisted population?
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This is commonly used as a talking point but I'm not so sure about that. Does a sailor get to perform poorly if a given percentage of the wardroom is ______ or doesn't contain a _________. When Janie Mines started plebe year at USNA and there was absolutely nobody in the brigade that looked like her were her classes more confusing to her or her career options more confusing than those of her roommates? Yes, I get that at some level it can be reassuring to some folks to have a _____ as part of the leadership team but to take this to extremes, is this suggesting that we need to MAKE SURE that at least X of the Triad or of the Department Heads are of _____ group?

By the way, when Lebanon went into Civil War in 1982/3, one of the issues was that their constitution MANDATED diversity in the Government. The President was to be a Maronite Christian, the Vice Pres was to be a Sunni and so on down the line. A great simplification of the run up to war was that the different factions were not satisfied with their share of the pie.

In the end, do we really want to allocate/detail people based on their diversity status instead of their accomplishments?
 
Part of the issue may also be the parents.

The vast majority of successful applicants have one or more parents supporting them through the process: helping them figure out how to complete the complicated application process. make medical appointments, get to interviews and PFT’s, and all kinds of other things. If the parents are not interested, supportive, or engaged in this endeavor, then the applicant has a much lower chance of success. Maybe the SA’s should work on outreach to the parents as well as to the students.
 
OldRetSWO said:
In the end, do we really want to allocate/detail people based on their diversity status instead of their accomplishments?
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No we do not. If the issue is one of awareness and education about officer commissions, and that prompts more QUALIFIED candidates to come forward — GREAT! If it means watering down requirements — beyond what’s already done — not great.
 
Skipper07 said:
Is it not important that our officer population be representative of our enlisted population?
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One of the biggest fallacies that nearly every single person in this country believes in. That skin color confers upon an individual a certain background that makes him/her automatically unique. This is not always the case. If Soldiers and NCOs look at officers, and vice versa, a different way or are unable to relate to the other population simply because they can't get over the fact that they look different from one another I think its a maturity and interpersonal problem. Maybe one day this country will stop calling people "African-American" or "Asian-American" or "something something-American" and just call each other Americans since thats what we are, everything in this country is about race, race, race :rolleyes:
 
Chockstock said:
Maybe one day this country will stop calling people "African-American" or "Asian-American" or "something something-American" and just call each other Americans since thats what we are, everything in this country is about race, race, race :rolleyes:
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I do find it rather bizarre this fixation of calling your self African—America, Irish-American, Italian-American etc. As far as I am aware Americans are unique that so many of them are keen to claim their heritage using these sort of labels. Just be proud to call yourself an American!
 
Wahoo Fan said:
Part of the issue may also be the parents.

The vast majority of successful applicants have one or more parents supporting them through the process: helping them figure out how to complete the complicated application process. make medical appointments, get to interviews and PFT’s, and all kinds of other things. If the parents are not interested, supportive, or engaged in this endeavor, then the applicant has a much lower chance of success. Maybe the SA’s should work on outreach to the parents as well as to the students.
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Applicants with supportive parents are the predominant population on this forum. I can assure you that in my role as a BGO and as an interviewer, I have come across a not-insignificant number of candidates whose parents did not advocate or support their candidacy. I have even seen parents or guardians who actively opposed candidacy.
 
sanman said:
I do find it rather bizarre this fixation of calling your self African—America, Irish-American, Italian-American etc. As far as I am aware Americans are unique that so many of them are keen to claim their heritage using these sort of labels. Just be proud to call yourself an American!
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I’m Appalachian-American. We even have our own language.
 
sanman said:
I do find it rather bizarre this fixation of calling your self African—America, Irish-American, Italian-American etc. As far as I am aware Americans are unique that so many of them are keen to claim their heritage using these sort of labels. Just be proud to call yourself an American!
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Chockstock said:
Maybe one day this country will stop calling people "African-American" or "Asian-American" or "something something-American" and just call each other Americans since thats what we are, everything in this country is about race, race, race :rolleyes:
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+1 on these. I'm half Mexican, half European (white?), but I don't say I'm a Mexican-American or European-American. I'm American, and I'm proud of it! It's a reason why I'm joining the Air Force, because I'm going to defend the country that has given me the opportunity to say I'm American.

I'm well aware of this cancel culture we live in, so when can people realize that being a big melting pot of races is what makes us America?

We're supposed to be united, not divided.
 
Devil Doc said:
I’m Appalachian-American. We even have our own language.
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You, my friend are a Redneck...as am I.

Jim Webb, Marine, USNA Alum, former NavSec wrote an excellent book: Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America. It’s all about my people.

I never want to see Americans lose the knowledge of their past—good or bad.

Confederate Flag anyone, or is that different?
 
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cb7893 said:
You, my friend are a Redneck...as am I.

Jim Webb, Marine, USNA Alum, former NavSec wrote an excellent book: Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America. It’s all about my people.

I never want to see Americans lose the knowledge of their past—good or bad.

Confederate Flag anyone, or is that different?
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I watched the documentary he hosted and narrated about the Scots-Irish. It was excellent. He's a talented writer. I was born on the terminus of Lookout Mountain just up the road from Noccalula Falls.
 
My kids were born in the U.S., hence 100% American. But their lineage includes some European and some Asian. However, I’m told that we’re only allowed to use one hyphen to describe ourselves. So they have no idea what label they should use. I think that’s a good thing.
 
At the end of the day here in the USA, most of us could call ourselves "Name a continent/ country- American". I don't understand it. American's think too much of themselves. How about just being "American"? It's great that this country has representation from everywhere on earth. Let's stop patting ourselves on the back about it and get back to work. The cream (no matter the flavor) will always rise to the top.

If you want to fix much of what's wrong in this country with young people not being prepared for success you can start and end with one thing. A lack of a nurturing male authority figure. I see it every day at work and it's a common denominator most of the time. That's probably a whole other conversation.
 
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USNA 19 DAD said:
At the end of the day here in the USA, most of us could call ourselves "Name a continent/ country- American". I don't understand it. American's think too much of themselves. How about just being "American"? It's great that this country has representation from everywhere on earth. Let's stop patting ourselves on the back about it and get back to work. The cream (no matter the flavor) will always rise to the top.

If you want to fix much of what's wrong in this country with young people not being prepared for success you can start and end with one thing. A lack of a nurturing male authority figure. I see it every day at work and it's a common denominator most of the time. That's probably a whole other conversation.
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I think that is the same for any country. It maybe didn’t happen in such a short timescale as in the US but it happened. Look at the history of England and not only has it had immigrants from many countries at different times throughout history it has also had large invasions from the Nordics, France and Italy. I have never come across a single instance where I have met anyone that refers to themselves as ‘country’-English.
 
sanman said:
I think that is the same for any country. It maybe didn’t happen in such a short timescale as in the US but it happened. Look at the history of England and not only has it had immigrants from many countries at different times throughout history it has also had large invasions from the Nordics, France and Italy. I have never come across a single instance where I have met anyone that refers to themselves as ‘country’-English.
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Anglo Saxon
 
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