Boxing class

Right, so if all the obvious mitigations are in place and concussions are still frequently happening (factually)? Which is the topic. No one is debating the usefulness of combatives. Also soccer statements are 100% irrelevant as the post was about boxing class. A mandatory class at USAFA. Does your DD want to be a pilot? Otherwise, irrelevant. I’m asking why we are risking pilot qualification when multiple concussions disqualifies you. I can’t help but be amused by all the parents that say “My kid was ok and didn’t get a concussion, so it’s a good class!” The parents of the kids who have gotten multiple concussions in boxing don’t feel that way. I promise. Some had to leave USAFA. However, I’m glad to hear (outside this forum but from actual staff) that this is being looked at because of the disruptiveness concussion protocol is causing at the schools. Maybe logic will prevail.
If the kids are so prone to concussions that a couple blows in a boxing class causes one, shouldn’t we be worried about their ability to handle the physical requirements and rigors of being a pilot? We don’t want them getting concussed from a hard landings or munitions. Maybe boxing class is a good screener for pilots.

Anyone involved in sports will tell you that some kids are just more prone to concussions than others.
 
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It also occurs to me that the demographic we are talking about here are by and large healthy young adults. For fun, they make the choice to jump out of planes, go snowboarding, waterskiing, snow skiing, or any number of dangerous sports.

They do those things on their own with no mandatory component, of their own free will.
 
Yes, my DS wants to select aviation, just finished pre-commissioning physicals. And boxing is mandatory at USNA so he did experience that. Doesn't change my prior statement.

There are a lot of required trainings that are dangerous and full of potential risks. DS spent time on a surface ship, in an airplane with a test pilot, and below the surface in a sub. All of those are dangerous and filled with inherent risk. If an injury from one of those pieces of training ended a Midshipmen/Cadets' medical qualification, it would be very sad, but the trainings have to occur to create junior officers who are trained to enter the fleet.

The crux of your argument is that boxing shouldn't be mandatory as you don't feel it contributes to their training in any way that makes the risks worth it.

I have never served in the military so will leave it to those who have to make that determination.
The argument is not about concussions at SAs. most concussions do not happen in boxing class. But in other training and in sports.

It’s an argument about possible concussions for future USAFA aviators. The USAFA football team gets a shrug and a —-—this is what they signed up for .

Its an argument that the USAFA is different than the other SAs and should have different rules. I think if so this is an interesting argument to make.
 
Concussions are a big deal, with potentially long-lasting effects. No institution should take a cavalier attitude toward prevention strategies, given the potentially life-altering ramifications.

That being said, I am not against boxing as a mandatory item, but the devil is in the details in terms of how you administer the program.
 
For the class of 2021 at USNA, 250 USN Pilots were selected and 75 USMC pilots were selected. USMA had 90 select aviation. If this argument is about pilots at USAFA, wouldn't the same be true of USNA and USMA?

And truly, if the concern is really about the health of the brain, then we should be protecting all of the brains. Not just future pilots. I'm sure the nuclear sub officers need all of theirs, as do infantry officers, artillery officers, surface officers....etc.
 
Yes, my DS wants to select aviation, just finished pre-commissioning physicals. And boxing is mandatory at USNA so he did experience that. Doesn't change my prior statement.

There are a lot of required trainings that are dangerous and full of potential risks. DS spent time on a surface ship, in an airplane with a test pilot, and below the surface in a sub. All of those are dangerous and filled with inherent risk. If an injury from one of those pieces of training ended a Midshipmen/Cadets' medical qualification, it would be very sad, but the trainings have to occur to create junior officers who are trained to enter the fleet.

The crux of your argument is that boxing shouldn't be mandatory as you don't feel it contributes to their training in any way that makes the risks worth it.

I have never served in the military so will leave it to those who have to make that determination.
I’m aware there’s a lot of dangerous training. I’m a grad and military member. The question is not “Why do we have any combative training?” That is pretty obvious, and necessary. The question is when one SPECIFIC type of training lends itself to many concussions at a school where concussions matter a lot (and when research now tells us concussions have long-term detrimental effects), why are we still requiring that SPECIFIC training. When it happens over, and over, and over, maybe it’s time to take a look. Possibly replace with another form of martial arts that doesn’t focus on blows to the face/head. If you read through this thread, you will see that the boxing concussions are an issue statistically. Another parent posted earlier in the thread that there is also an issue at Navy and the concussion protocols have become disruptive. There are people there advocating to remove it as well. I personally would love to see it replaced with another combative that lends itself to less risk of concussion.
 
Concussions are a big deal, with potentially long-lasting effects. No institution should take a cavalier attitude toward prevention strategies, given the potentially life-altering ramifications.

That being said, I am not against boxing as a mandatory item, but the devil is in the details in terms of how you administer the program.
In a 3 year period , sighted above, the USAFA had 72 boxing class concussions. The USNA had 29.

I doubt its because future Marines and SEALs don’t hit hard.
 
Concussions are a big deal, with potentially long-lasting effects. No institution should take a cavalier attitude toward prevention strategies, given the potentially life-altering ramifications.

That being said, I am not against boxing as a mandatory item, but the devil is in the details in terms of how you administer the program.
100% agree. If I weren’t seeing/hearing about so many recent concussions, some of them a 2nd one, I would think boxing was a great service academy tradition. But unfortunately that’s not the case. So I am concerned about how it’s being administered at this point.
 
100% agree. If I weren’t seeing/hearing about so many recent concussions, some of them a 2nd one, I would think boxing was a great service academy tradition. But unfortunately that’s not the case. So I am concerned about how it’s being administered at this point.
That is definitely understandable.
 
For the class of 2021 at USNA, 250 USN Pilots were selected and 75 USMC pilots were selected. USMA had 90 select aviation. If this argument is about pilots at USAFA, wouldn't the same be true of USNA and USMA?

And truly, if the concern is really about the health of the brain, then we should be protecting all of the brains. Not just future pilots. I'm sure the nuclear sub officers need all of theirs, as do infantry officers, artillery officers, surface officers....etc.
Totally agree. However, 3 concussions actually medically disqualifies future pilots, specifically. At least it used to. I don’t know how the number of concussions affects other career fields.
 
3 concussions actually medically disqualifies future pilots, specifically. At least it used to.
Isn’t this the entire premise of your thread? It seems you should be certain whether it is actually a disqualification before going on a tirade against the boxing requirement.
 
Totally agree. However, 3 concussions actually medically disqualifies future pilots, specifically. At least it used to. I don’t know how the number of concussions affects other career fields.
It would be helpful to know that 3 does disqualify a future pilot. Lots of football and soccer players would want to know for sure.

Even on previous SA threads I do not see that as a fact. If 3 is the limit then some supporting links should be easy to find.

Edited: I had not seen the comments just above mine before posting.
 
Isn’t this the entire premise of your thread? It seems you should be certain whether it is actually a disqualification before going on a tirade against the boxing requirement.
Literally stated much earlier in the thread that someone in medical would have to confirm what the CURRENT requirements are. No, it’s not the entire premise of my thread. I didn’t mention PQ in my initial post even. REGARDLESS of PQ, concussions are a concern with long term detrimental effects. You can also use google to read about that :) If you look at the stats, a couple posts above why is USAFA so much higher in boxing class than the other SAs? That is also the concern. Tirade? That’s kind of dramatic. It’s a discussion.
 
My husband had a few thoughts on safety protocols. Maybe they are being perfectly followed by all the cadets and maybe not. It is an easy thing to fix if not. He noted three things that make a huge difference with safety:
1. Are the mouthpieces high quality shock doctors with a top and bottom or cheap ones? Are the mouthpieces properly fitted? They should be wearing the expensive ones.
2. Are they using the heavier sparring gloves (18 oz vs lighter gloves that would be used in competition)?
3. Is the headgear being properly worn and replaced when worn out?

There is a reason that the number of concussions is significantly smaller at USNA. It should be looked into. It is possible some of the cadets have never worn mouthpieces and don't know if they fit or not. Same for the headgear.
There are valid reasons for requiring boxing for SAs but every effort needs to be made to minimize injuries.
I would suggest that if the cadets are allowed to bring their own mouthpieces that they get shock doctors.
My son took boxing during transition week and he did not have any complaints except that they were only allowed to throw jabs.
 
Actually WP had the most concussions in boxing class during that reported 3 year period with 97 as reported earlier.

USAFA with 72

Navy was the real outlier with 29

I have no idea at all what the numbers imply. Under Dx over Dx exact perfect Dx numbers or something else entirely.

And this is a fascinating discussion.

If I were potus I might do away with SAs as we know them. Maybe a SA strictly for potential pilots. The slogan would be——we eat better we sleep better and we don’t box :)

The SA for ground troops and future Marines—-life sux and we box :)
 
I might just give a pass to anyone with a past concussion and then look into both the USNA boxing rules (to find helpful tips for the other programs) and their concussion protocols (to see if they are missing a bunch of concussions.) This doesn't need to be a big deal, just apply some common sense.
 
My husband had a few thoughts on safety protocols. Maybe they are being perfectly followed by all the cadets and maybe not. It is an easy thing to fix if not. He noted three things that make a huge difference with safety:
1. Are the mouthpieces high quality shock doctors with a top and bottom or cheap ones? Are the mouthpieces properly fitted? They should be wearing the expensive ones.
2. Are they using the heavier sparring gloves (18 oz vs lighter gloves that would be used in competition)?
3. Is the headgear being properly worn and replaced when worn out?

There is a reason that the number of concussions is significantly smaller at USNA. It should be looked into. It is possible some of the cadets have never worn mouthpieces and don't know if they fit or not. Same for the headgear.
There are valid reasons for requiring boxing for SAs but every effort needs to be made to minimize injuries.
I would suggest that if the cadets are allowed to bring their own mouthpieces that they get shock doctors.
My son took boxing during transition week and he did not have any complaints except that they were only allowed to throw jabs.
The only one of these I specifically know 100% is that they wear Shock Dr. gel max mouthguard.
 
My son took boxing during transition week and he did not have any complaints except that they were only allowed to throw jabs.
That's normal for the first class or two - Jabs and learn to cover up.
For the non-"boxing literate", jabs will be the shortest and least forceful of punches so less danger if one gets through.
 
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Actually WP had the most concussions in boxing class during that reported 3 year period with 97 as reported earlier.

USAFA with 72

Navy was the real outlier with 29

I have no idea at all what the numbers imply. Under Dx over Dx exact perfect Dx numbers or something else entirely.

And this is a fascinating discussion.

If I were potus I might do away with SAs as we know them. Maybe a SA strictly for potential pilots. The slogan would be——we eat better we sleep better and we don’t box :)

The SA for ground troops and future Marines—-life sux and we box :)

Does this correlate with SAT scores?
 
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