Boxing class

The State Parents Club Meeting during Parent's Weekend with General Clark and the rest of the leadership was posted to youtube yesterday. A parent club president asked about boxing because her son got a concussion during the class. If you want to understand the Academy's position it is worth watching. I felt reassured that everything possible was being done to protect cadets while also providing the needed training.
 
I'm a curious bystander to this.
Are cadets in boxing instruction divided into weight classes?
Do female cadets box male cadets?
 
Highly combative Thumb wrestling might be a good alternative to boxing at the USAFA….

Although the risk of injuring the thumb may lead to future inability to handle the “stick “ and result in a pilot medical DQ
Wow, that is so helpful and mature! May your child, if you have one, never be affected. Real lives have been damaged.
 
The State Parents Club Meeting during Parent's Weekend with General Clark and the rest of the leadership was posted to youtube yesterday. A parent club president asked about boxing because her son got a concussion during the class. If you want to understand the Academy's position it is worth watching. I felt reassured that everything possible was being done to protect cadets while also providing the needed training.
The State Parents Club Meeting during Parent's Weekend with General Clark and the rest of the leadership was posted to youtube yesterday. A parent club president asked about boxing because her son got a concussion during the class. If you want to understand the Academy's position it is worth watching. I felt reassured that everything possible was being done to protect cadets while also providing the needed training.
Thank you-I’d actually like to watch that but it says the video is “private.” I’ll see if I can watch it elsewhere.
 
There is plenty to worry about as a parent of a SA kid. If my DD ends up becoming a pilot someday I will worry about what could happen to her if she were to ever get shot down in enemy territory. The risk of what could happen to her during 7.5 hours of boxing classes wearing headgear, padded gloves, and a mouthguard at USAFA pales in comparison. I want her to learn how to defend herself against a larger/stronger enemy combatant using any and all means necessary including boxing, jiu-jitsu, judo, biting, eye-gouging, etc.

I don't want to discount the severity of concussions, but am I the only person here that views a ~2.2% boxing-related concussion rate (among mostly novice boxers) at USAFA as pretty low? The fact that some cadets are getting multiple boxing-related concussions, despite such a low overall percentage, may suggest those particular kids might be more susceptible (as someone suggested earlier). Perhaps these cadets are not listening to their coaches and are failing to properly defend themselves.

I am happy that USAFA is training these kids to fight, because someday they may be fighting for their lives.
 
I don’t think anyone is being cavalier about concussions writ large. I believe the tongue in cheek humor comes from those who have served as combat veterans and know the value of training and adversity. Risk comes with both of those.
I also think laughter is the best medicine and even with tough topics gets us through.
I value my son and daughter’s brain. Hell, I would bet they value it more than I do. The risks they take they do as consenting adults.
DS has a goal. To serve as a competent and compelling officer in this great nation’s armed service. Risk is part of that. Regardless of whether he is trying to become an aviator or a submariner, a special operator, surface warfare officer or restricted line he has chosen along with thousands of others to pursue that path.

I hope when shortcomings are found in those trainings they can be corrected.
 
A military boxing story but not the USAFA

My dad boxed while in the Navy WW2. In the gym there was a professional heavyweight boxer than was bullying dad.

The next time that boxer (forgot the name) went at dad my pops said——“Let’s take a walk on the roof”

He was never bothered again.

When that bully was knocked out by Joe Lewis in a championship or near championship fight and finally came to “let’s take a walk on the roof” was the first thing he said to Joe.

Now that was no doubt a serious concussion Lewis handed out.
 
There is plenty to worry about as a parent of a SA kid. If my DD ends up becoming a pilot someday I will worry about what could happen to her if she were to ever get shot down in enemy territory. The risk of what could happen to her during 7.5 hours of boxing classes wearing headgear, padded gloves, and a mouthguard at USAFA pales in comparison. I want her to learn how to defend herself against a larger/stronger enemy combatant using any and all means necessary including boxing, jiu-jitsu, judo, biting, eye-gouging, etc.

I don't want to discount the severity of concussions, but am I the only person here that views a ~2.2% boxing-related concussion rate (among mostly novice boxers) at USAFA as pretty low? The fact that some cadets are getting multiple boxing-related concussions, despite such a low overall percentage, may suggest those particular kids might be more susceptible (as someone suggested earlier). Perhaps these cadets are not listening to their coaches and are failing to properly defend themselves.

I am happy that USAFA is training these kids to fight, because someday they may be fighting for their lives.
Do you know what many Dr.s believe increases your chances of concussion? Previous concussions. Some believe it makes you up to THREE times more susceptible I have read. That’s why I can’t understand why kids with multiple previous are still put in boxing, or kids who get a concussion in boxing are removed from the class only to be put in it the very next block because it’s required. The most recent post I’ve seen was a dad who’s DD just sustained a 2nd concussion in a row from a second attempt at boxing. This is one of the policy/procedures about the class I don’t see the logic in. If you think the class is great and feel your 2.2% is accurate, then you can rest easy. My concerns have stemmed from actual events and situations past and present. They aren’t mine to share, but based on what I know I feel justified in the concern.

I understand they may fight for their lives and they do hard things to prepare. I’ve done those things as well, and watched my SA kid do them. However multiple concussions causing them to need pain management and sleeping pills for extended amounts of time and cause massive disruption to their academics (all reported things that have happened at USAFA) will hinder the ability to even get to the point of active duty. If your DD has completed boxing, congrats to her. If not, God speed. I hope she reaps all the benefits of the class and enjoys it as some do.
 
Do you know what many Dr.s believe increases your chances of concussion? Previous concussions. Some believe it makes you up to THREE times more susceptible I have read. That’s why I can’t understand why kids with multiple previous are still put in boxing, or kids who get a concussion in boxing are removed from the class only to be put in it the very next block because it’s required. The most recent post I’ve seen was a dad who’s DD just sustained a 2nd concussion in a row from a second attempt at boxing. This is one of the policy/procedures about the class I don’t see the logic in. If you think the class is great and feel your 2.2% is accurate, then you can rest easy. My concerns have stemmed from actual events and situations past and present. They aren’t mine to share, but based on what I know I feel justified in the concern.

I understand they may fight for their lives and they do hard things to prepare. I’ve done those things as well, and watched my SA kid do them. However multiple concussions causing them to need pain management and sleeping pills for extended amounts of time and cause massive disruption to their academics (all reported things that have happened at USAFA) will hinder the ability to even get to the point of active duty. If your DD has completed boxing, congrats to her. If not, God speed. I hope she reaps all the benefits of the class and enjoys it as some do.
Should athletes with multiple concussions in high school be allowed to be inducted as prior concussions are a serious contributing factor?

Are there other plans that could be implemented besides removing the boxing requirement? For instance, better equipment, touch sparring, or better concussion protocols if a cadet gets one?

For instance, after watching my daughter get concussions in soccer - I wouldn’t advocate for ending girls soccer in high school. I would disallow heading.
 
Should athletes with multiple concussions in high school be allowed to be inducted as prior concussions are a serious contributing factor?

Are there other plans that could be implemented besides removing the boxing requirement? For instance, better equipment, touch sparring, or better concussion protocols if a cadet gets one?

For instance, after watching my daughter get concussions in soccer - I wouldn’t advocate for ending girls soccer in high school. I would disallow heading.
And in soccer it’s not just that concussion crushing hit that’s the issue it’s the 100s of times you might have headed the ball in practice and matches.

As you may know heading is now a no go in younger youth soccer at least in the US.

Maybe the best argument on this boxing is that the USAFA with its pilot driven community does not need to train in the same way the other SAs might.

Because this is all about pilots, if SA concussions were a significant concern for all students , we would be advocating for the end of SA football and soccer programs or talking about all the other training where students get concussions.

Things to consider

In most if not all regular karate TSD type of tournament fighting the head is “supposed” to be light touch only. Full force if not the head.

Its not the same fear generated as stepping into a boxing ring . but it does generate a significant amount of fear because you can end up taking quite a beating. OK I will speak for myself I was always scared :)

But then I saw people knocked out cold during matches so it was not a perfect system. But there is not a lot of concussions normally.
 
And in soccer it’s not just that concussion crushing hit that’s the issue it’s the 100s of times you might have headed the ball in practice and matches.

As you may know heading is now a no go in younger youth soccer at least in the US.

Maybe the best argument on this boxing is that the USAFA with its pilot driven community does not need to train in the same way the other SAs might.

Because this is all about pilots, if SA concussions were a significant concern for all students , we would be advocating for the end of SA football and soccer programs or talking about all the other training where students get concussions.

Things to consider

In most if not all regular karate TSD type of tournament fighting the head is “supposed” to be light touch only. Full force if not the head.

Its not the same fear generated as stepping into a boxing ring . but it does generate a significant amount of fear because you can end up taking quite a beating. OK I will speak for myself I was always scared :)

But then I saw people knocked out cold during matches so it was not a perfect system. But there is not a lot of concussions normally.

Lol my son went from fear of getting hurt to fear of being beaten up by a woman in class to blaming dad for not making him wrestle and box in high school.

Iirc my daughter was allowed to head the ball in junior high - but not in youth soccer. When she started getting concussions. Up in upstate NY - the ball is like a bowling ball in the cold.
 
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Agree to a
Should athletes with multiple concussions in high school be allowed to be inducted as prior concussions are a serious contributing factor?

Are there other plans that could be implemented besides removing the boxing requirement? For instance, better equipment, touch sparring, or better concussion protocols if a cadet gets one?

For instance, after watching my daughter get concussions in soccer - I wouldn’t advocate for ending girls soccer in high school. I would disallow heading.
Boxing, unlike soccer, focuses specifically on blows to the head and face. So, I understand what you are saying, but my stance is that boxing could be replaced with some form of martial arts that teaches the same lessons but with less concussion risk. Many people graduated USAFA, served in combat and flew planes 20+ years without taking boxing. They did not once need to use boxing skills, but they used their brain every single day. It has not always been a requirement. I wish there was a simple fix like “better equipment,” but as far as I can see the mitigations are in place and concussions are still happening. Is there better equipment out there? I’m sure if it. But I don’t count on the military having access to it anytime soon. They get what they get, and it’s usually a very economical option, like all things in the military. Are there some things that can be improved as far as actual administration of class? I really can’t say, but my hope is that is addressed sooner rather than later if there is a substantial uptick in concussion dx coming out of boxing class.
 
They did not once need to use boxing skills, but they used their brain every single day.
Have you not heard of Vietnam? Downed pilots? Lance Sijan? Majority of these airmen suffered head injuries of some sort, and landed into enemy territory with often no means of self defense except for their own hands. I personally, think that boxing and concussing should have even more of an emphasis in USAFA, even more so now. So, that airmen when in the event of facing a situation that results in them not being in the right headspace, they know how to respond, and aren't completely unfamiliar with the feeling of head injury. I can't imagine joining a forum designed for the inspiration of young minds interested in serving their nation above themselves, as well as the community of former grads and servicemembers alike, just for someone to ask a question, refuse to compromise with others' ideas, and to continually make it a point that they are right. Makes it hard for me to believe that this is an actual graduate.
 
Lol my son went from fear of getting hurt to fear of being beaten up by a woman in class to blaming dad for not making him wrestle and box in high school.

Iirc my daughter was allowed to head the ball in junior high - but not in youth soccer. When she started getting concussions. Up in upstate NY - the ball is like a bowling ball in the cold.
When I practiced heading with my team the girls were either laying prone on the ground looking in the direction of the ball, sitting on their butt, or on their knees.

The ball was thrown to them from a very close distance and it was a soft underhand throw.

But a punted ball in a game is a different matter entirely.

If folks watch that NFL training camp series on ESPN they will see the ugliest strangest looking things now that sits on the top and sides of a regular football helmet——-in practice not in a game.

That new technology is supposed to be a major break thru in concussion prevention.
 
When I practiced heading with my team the girls were either laying prone on the ground looking in the direction of the ball, sitting on their butt, or on their knees.

The ball was thrown to them from a very close distance and it was a soft underhand throw.

But a punted ball in a game is a different matter entirely.

If folks watch that NFL training camp series on ESPN they will see the ugliest strangest looking things now that sits on the top and sides of a regular football helmet——-in practice not in a game.

That new technology is supposed to be a major break thru in concussion prevention.
Tua last week is going to be a headache for the NFL.
 
Have you not heard of Vietnam? Downed pilots? Lance Sijan? Majority of these airmen suffered head injuries of some sort, and landed into enemy territory with often no means of self defense except for their own hands. I personally, think that boxing and concussing should have even more of an emphasis in USAFA, even more so now. So, that airmen when in the event of facing a situation that results in them not being in the right headspace, they know how to respond, and aren't completely unfamiliar with the feeling of head injury. I can't imagine joining a forum designed for the inspiration of young minds interested in serving their nation above themselves, as well as the community of former grads and servicemembers alike, just for someone to ask a question, refuse to compromise with others' ideas, and to continually make it a point that they are right. Makes it hard for me to believe that this is an actual graduate.

I could recite High Flight in the mother for you. But you clearly are just angry I disagree and trying to discredit me. And that’s fine. You are welcome to your opinion, that’s how discussion works. I’ve agreed with many commenters on this post. Not really sure how you are equating me using stats, current personal experience, and head injury research to form an opinion and stick to it to not being a grad. If anything I’d think that speaks to the fact I am. I was taught critical thinking. If someone had presented compelling evidence why boxing is better and more appropriate than say, another form of martial arts, I’d definitely think about that. No one has. I also learned that when people become patronizing and condescending (for example, asking someone if they’ve ever heard of Vietnam) in debates, it usually means they don’t have anything factual and worthwhile to support their view.

I’m also not sure where any of your logic comes from. Yes, I’m aware some pilots have had to use hand to hand combat. Also some have not. I’m sitting next to a 25+ year AF pilot right now who has never used boxing (nor did he take it at USAFA). Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive, they are both true. And throughout this post I have expressed understanding and acknowledgment that hand to hand combat is important and should be taught. I’m not sure if you’ve actually read through though based on your words.

And as for your assertion we should emphasize concussing cadets so they know what to do in case they become concussed in the future, I have no words for that.
 
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