Cadets instructed by USAFA leadership not to use words like "Mom" and "Dad"

[Peter2025]

Nice of you to be deliberately obtuse. My point is not that any white male had a clear path to promotion. My point is that as other demographics gained traction over time, the path for white males became more congested. And the amount of *****ing about those other demographics increased in the vein of, "the only reason that other demographic got the promotion was because of their demographic".

I really don't see how you can argue that issue. Especially since we have seen that identical whine in this thread.

Regardless of how things were in the past (i.e. whether your argument is true or false), why don't we just stop trying to fix the past and let racism die the death it deserves. Instead of making race the huge issue it is made today, why don't we stop asking for race for applications and promotions? (Honestly asking for your opinion) It seems to me that in the name of racial equality, we focus too heavily on race. It would be pretty hard to discriminate based on race if you do not know someone's race, right?

 

[OldRetSWO]

I was trying to find class profiles of years past, but can't imagine that USNA was diverse in the 70s. Just because there are a few people around that don't look like you, doesn't mean it's a diverse community.

Really? Tell me more about diversity as somehow despite my high school being majority hispanic and maybe 30% white, I clearly don't understand it. I'm currently a university professor at what is said to be the MOST diverse institution of its kind in the US and somehow I don't understand diversity?

Your 2nd statement on promotion actually makes the point for the need of diversity. While military promotions are gained from superior performance, if the pool of personnel that you are starting from all look the same, the chances of any diversity on higher levels is almost impossible.

Yes, the academies were not as diverse as society when I went there but that does not change the FACT that the officer corps that I served in was a meritocracy. Sure, there were instances of racism and some people who weren't Comfortable with minorities succeeding but the FACT is that TWO out of the FOUR 4 Stars from my graduating class were minorities and a fair number of the other thirty-some odd flag officers were also minorities. It was all about PERFORMANCE!

While people don't intentionally discriminate, it happens due to the lack of attention. A great example is in the Coast Guard did recruiting campaigns through partnering with WWE and Nascar in the early 2000s. The return on the campaign was an increase in 18-22 year old white males. There was unintentional discrimination in the process because of the demographics in the audience of WWE & Nascar. My guess is if there was some more diverse faces around the table making the decision, other recruiting campaign ideas may have been implemented.

You're a 2025 hopeful or parent but I really don't know if you've ever participated in military recruiting in any way? I've been a Blue and Gold Officer for over thirty years and I know how much we struggle to maintain and increase minority enrollment and that was with an admissions staff in Annapolis that was majority-minority.
I won't defend nor accuse the Coast Guard of being wrong because I don't know the first thing about the contract or the effort itself. I do know that a Veterans group that I'm in has a sponsorship in a sport along with one team in that sport. The fact is that we pay almost nothing for it as it is almost all done for goodwill. Should we deny them because it doesn't attract a particular demo?
Have you ever been involved in this sort of thing? Its not as simple as you seem to think.

 

[FutureAcademyDad?]

Our country has made great strides in equalizing opportunities for all members of society. I am proud of that. During my lifetime, my daughter's would not have been allowed to EARN a service academy appointment. Now both of them can and have. That progress is not lost on me.

However, just because progress has been made does not mean that further progress is not desirable. The opposite is true. I fervently hope that color, gender, religious, and any other type of difference blindness becomes the norm because impediments to advancement because of those differences is eliminated.

But we are not there yet.

 

[Peter2025]

I fervently hope that color, gender, religious, and any other type of difference blindness becomes the norm because impediments to advancement because of those differences is eliminated.

I firmly believe that the former would allow the latter to actually exist. Until we stop focusing on color, gender, etc., it will be impossible to create a system that is truly equal for all people.

 

[A1Janitor]

White active duty officers in Air Force is 76% of total.

The white population in US was 72.4% of America in 2010.

It seems like improvements are being made.

 

[2025 hopeful]

Really? Tell me more about diversity as somehow despite my high school being majority hispanic and maybe 30% white, I clearly don't understand it. I'm currently a university professor at what is said to be the MOST diverse institution of its kind in the US and somehow I don't understand diversity?



Yes, the academies were not as diverse as society when I went there but that does not change the FACT that the officer corps that I served in was a meritocracy. Sure, there were instances of racism and some people who weren't Comfortable with minorities succeeding but the FACT is that TWO out of the FOUR 4 Stars from my graduating class were minorities and a fair number of the other thirty-some odd flag officers were also minorities. It was all about PERFORMANCE!




You're a 2025 hopeful or parent but I really don't know if you've ever participated in military recruiting in any way? I've been a Blue and Gold Officer for over thirty years and I know how much we struggle to maintain and increase minority enrollment and that was with an admissions staff in Annapolis that was majority-minority.
I won't defend nor accuse the Coast Guard of being wrong because I don't know the first thing about the contract or the effort itself. I do know that a Veterans group that I'm in has a sponsorship in a sport along with one team in that sport. The fact is that we pay almost nothing for it as it is almost all done for goodwill. Should we deny them because it doesn't attract a particular demo?
Have you ever been involved in this sort of thing? Its not as simple as you seem to think.

I am glad to hear that you appreciate and respect the need for diversity and do work to promote it.

I don't think there are simple answers. No one is looking for a handout or a leg up. My point being, we need to recognize there are bias in the systems that harm minorities and need to work on correcting those biases.

As for my credentials, while I've never served, my spouse is active duty for 23 years. As he's come up in the organization, he has witnessed and heard stories across all the services of the bias within the systems that he has shared with me. We have come a long way and there has been change to correct the issues, there's value in realizing it's not complete.

 

[A1Janitor]

My point being, we need to recognize there are bias in the systems that harm minorities and need to work on correcting those biases.

As for my credentials, while I've never served, my spouse is active duty for 23 years. As he's come up in the organization, he has witnessed and heard stories across all the services of the bias within the systems that he has shared with me. We have come a long way and there has been change to correct the issues, there's value in realizing it's not complete.

I hear all about systemic racism and biases in systems, mainly as talking points.

I would love for you to explain those biases in those systems. On the contrary, I have heard respected African American scholars dispute this claim.

 

[Upnortherner]

Yes born on 3rd base and they think they hit a 3 bagger all by themselves. They were born lucky. They were born with advantages.

Like being a member of a royal family, based on nothing but the luck of who your parents are, kids from affluent families, that have a ton of advantages will usually outdue those poorer kids without advantages. And that advantage will last for generations.

can anyone seriously argue that this is wrong?

The best schools, the best SAT support, the best very expensive club teams, the best sports and academic trainers, the most free time so they can devote themselves to resume building like after school leadership positions.

All of the cases you mention above relate to income or wealth, not any of the criteria that is being talked about here. Yes, the princess of England has advantages over you or I based on the wealth of the family she is born into. The criteria you are arguing for would give her additional points from admissions.

The daughter of a Supreme Court Justice like Justice Thomas, a US Congresswoman like Ilhan Omar or an athlete like Tiger Woods has incredible advantages based on their class. Offspring of those people would all get additional points on their application despite having access to "tons of advantages that last for generations...the best schools, best SAT support, best very expensive club teams, the best sports and academic trainers and the most free time."

We substitute things like race, gender and sexual preference for income, but they don't necessarily line up.

 

[MuthaRunner]

May have missed this if someone else posted it, but this was sent to the Parents Clubs From the Supt for context:

Official Statement by USAFA Superintendent, Lt. Gen. Richard Clark:
USAFA Statement on Diversity and Inclusion Training
Parent Club Presidents,
You have likely seen, and are receiving questions about, reporting in Fox News regarding a one-hour diversity and inclusion training led by cadets in each squadron. My team has provided the below to Fox in order to correct the record, but I wanted you to have the information to address any questions you may be getting.
----
“The Air Force Academy does not prohibit the use of ‘Mom and Dad’ or other gender specific terms. The recent briefing on diversity and inclusion is being taken out of context and misrepresented; the slide in question was not intended to stand alone.
First and foremost, the briefing centered on respect for others and the warfighting imperative of leveraging diverse perspectives to solve our nation’s most difficult national security problems. Our strategic competitors are doing the opposite. Our American diversity is a strategic advantage and opens the door to creative solutions, providing a competitive edge in air, space, and cyberspace.
The slide on ‘inclusive language’ was intended to demonstrate how respect for others should be used to build inclusive teams, producing more effective warfighting units. Understanding a person’s context shows respect. Until you know a person’s situation, we should not make assumptions about them.
----
Most of you are Moms and Dads, and we have no intention of taking that away from you! Please let me know if you have questions, and, as always, thank you for your support.
V/R Rich
RICHARD M. CLARK, Lt Gen, USAF
Superintendent, USAFA
143143

 

[Pmaclax]

I am glad to hear that you appreciate and respect the need for diversity and do work to promote it.

I don't think there are simple answers. No one is looking for a handout or a leg up. My point being, we need to recognize there are bias in the systems that harm minorities and need to work on correcting those biases.

As for my credentials, while I've never served, my spouse is active duty for 23 years. As he's come up in the organization, he has witnessed and heard stories across all the services of the bias within the systems that he has shared with me. We have come a long way and there has been change to correct the issues, there's value in realizing it's not complete.

I don't understand how this line "If you are a cisgender man, this program isn’t for you" doesn't equate to giving everybody who is not a cisgender white male a leg up.

 

[#007Boa]

"For decades, white males enjoyed a clear path to promotion, unobstructed by any other competition" and wonder if you ever served or were exposed to the Military promotion system. Whether you believe it or not, competition for promotion was ALWAYS a fact of life....

OldRetSWO, thank-you for your response.

You confirm that the Service Academies in past and present form are unafraid of competition!

Quite to the contrary of fear, to swim the white-water torrents of daily challenges requires an internal dynamo to survive. Then they live on the very edge of academic, physical and humane performance. Competition fuels the dynamo of these high achievers - the typical Service Academy appointee.

Problems abound, but to suggest that the Service Academies have erected institutional barriers to limit competition is absurd. They thrive on it.

 

[Humey]

Again, as is typical of the hysterical responses in this thread, a red herring argument.

Isn't that the whole point of DEI? To respect and value that your members have different backgrounds and perspectives than you do?

You might want to look in the mirror.

1. Your argument against my point, is that its a red herring and therefore no reason to contradict it. You automatically say its wrong without any discussion. You are no different than those i have discussions with who instead of coming back with an argument, just cuss me out because honestly, they have nothing better to say.

2. Where did i ever say we shouldn't respect others with different backgrounds? Where did I say we should respect anyone?

3. And my comment about group think and deviation from it being evil is now thrown on to me.

So your argument is, i disrespect people, I am evil and you cant bother do explain so why I am wrong, just that I am. You just may argument for me. Group think and deviation from it makes you evil.

 

[The_Grizzly]

If anything, it kind of feels like there is a right wing presence at USAFA. There were many cases of evangelicals harassing cadets of other faiths or no faiths

 

[Korab]

If anything, it kind of feels like there is a right wing presence at USAFA. There were many cases of evangelicals harassing cadets of other faiths or no faiths

Wondering how you would know this since you are a senior in high school. The current cadets on this board don’t report this. @Peter2025

 

[USAFA_86]

If anything, it kind of feels like there is a right wing presence at USAFA. There were many cases of evangelicals harassing cadets of other faiths or no faiths

Yeah this is a flat-out lie. I have no doubt that a few incidents have happened in the past, but if something like that happened today there would be immediate consequences and numerous cadets, religious and non-religious, would stick up for the individual being harassed.

 

[Korab]

Yeah this is a flat-out lie. I have no doubt that a few incidents have happened in the past, but if something like that happened today there would be immediate consequences and numerous cadets, religious and non-religious, would stick up for the individual being harassed.

Thanks for weighing in. Should have tagged you as well!

 

[VasilyZaytsev]

Some people live with other family members beside a mom or dad. 4.1% according to 2020 census. US has the most amount of kids without a father in the home, according to PEW Research. Maybe its "WOKE", or maybe it fits with todays society of having two moms, or two dads, etc. The real question is; Is this change being driven or encouraged by videos like these; Or, are these videos a result of the changes in society? Who knows.

 

[Falcon74]

The Supreme Court is set to consider cases regarding Race-based admissions at Harvard and UNC. This will be a major test of Affirmative Action and I would think colleges and universities are going to watch this closely.

Supreme Court to Hear Arguments in Harvard Affirmative Action Case on Oct. 31 | News | The Harvard Crimson

The Supreme Court is set to hear arguments next month in a high-stakes affirmative action lawsuit brought against Harvard that could end race-conscious college admissions in the United States.

www.thecrimson.com

The implications are profound for the military and college admissions in general. The question will be: Should the status quo continue or should the colleges comply with the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the Constitution requiring equal (non-discriminatory, non-preferential) treatment. In other words, should admissions be based on meritocracy (best qualified) or should we continue to expect admissions that are contradictory to the law referenced earlier. For the military, service academy admissions and promotions (either merit-based or affirmative action based) may also have to follow the court decision.

Will the Michigan case may be an indicator of the court's decision? Even if I were a lawyer, I wouldn't know. In the 2014 case Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, the Supreme Court ruled 6-2 that Michigan's constitutional amendment banning affirmative action was constitutional.

 

[Pmaclax]

Thanks for weighing in. Should have tagged you as well!

Just to remind us of some of the religious history at USAFA….. so I think the grizzly came into this discussion like a bull in a China shop and not sourced, but there is history. I post this as a piece of documented history, I happen to be a fan of DeBerry.

Air Force Academy football players court controversy by praying in public

The Air Force Academy is once again looking at whether God has a place on the football field after an advocacy group complained about the Falcons holding hands and praying in the end zone before games.

www.airforcetimes.com

Air Force football team drops pre-game prayer

AIR FORCE ACADEMY

www.summitdaily.com

 

[Peter2025]

If anything, it kind of feels like there is a right wing presence at USAFA. There were many cases of evangelicals harassing cadets of other faiths or no faiths

Wondering how you would know this since you are a senior in high school. The current cadets on this board don’t report this. @Peter2025

Never seen anything of the sort personally.