Can You Take A Semester Off from ROTC?
- Thread starter MichaelAZ
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Montana State Army ROTC
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Yes. He might become a lateral entry and have to go to basic camp to make up the spring semester he misses. Happens all the time. (Note, basic camp is not basic combat training that enlisted solders go to)
Thank you very much! I didn't realize that! He is also in the Army National Guard, so he has had a heck of a time with School, ROTC, and Guard. For instance, he had Drill this weekend, so he didn't participate in the ROTC FTX. He provided his drill schedule, advised the chain of command on the conflict. I saw an email from a high ranking member of the Cadre that indicated serious unhappiness for his "choice" of going to his Drill. My DS told me he didn't know he had a "choice". He is pretty down on ROTC right now. He said he wants to drop out of ROTC. because he thinks it is not worth all the effort he puts into it (30+ hrs per week). Is it "normal" to have all these hours? He asked if he could scale down the effort, and he was told that the "competition" is high for being contracted, so the answer is no, couldn't scale the number of hours down.
Thanks! This is another thing I didn't know!!! I will see if he wants to do that!!
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I'm assuming there is some good reason to skip a semester, like focusing on grades or something. Skipping a semester for something frivolous, while valid for a college programmer, would probably be frowned upon. If it is to focus on grades then one needs to consider how grades will be addressed in the future when re-enrolled in NROTC. No need to reply... this is just food for thought for your DS and any future lurkers.
Pima
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My DS was AFROTC, so take that into account. He was also a contracted cadet (scholarship) as a freshmen. I know the AF is different, but as a freshmen he was not spending 30 hrs a week with ROTC, especially in his fall semester. Maybe 10-15 hrs., but no way 30. He would do LLAB and PT., as a det they also did something 1x a month on a Sat.
Now when he became a sophomore, with each semester the hrs did increase because the cadre would want to give them higher positions.
~ IE fall of his sophomore yr. he became the PT instructor for his flight. Spring semester he became the PT instructor for the entire det. Fall semester his jr. yr., he became a flight cadet commander. So on and so forth. With all of those positions came more responsibility that included attending weekly meetings, writing cadet reviews and overall paperwork that needed to be submitted to the unit. That is when he was doing 20-30 hrs a week with AFROTC.
Again, this was with AFROTC. Our DS's det was considered large (200 cadets). It was and still is a unit that wins every couple of yrs the best large AFROTC det in the nation. It was very competitive for cadets to get an ICSP (in college scholarship). These kids in tech majors were carrying 3.1+ cgpa and non-tech were carrying 3.4+. Their PFA scores are based on 100 pts., and most of them were scoring 97-98 on avg.
I am kind of puzzled by the cadre for a couple of reasons.
1. I am sure they would have xtown cadets. How can they expect those cadets to do 30 hrs at the host campus when they have to commute back to their college for academic classes?
2. They want them to have good grades academically. If the cadet is taking 18 credits, that is 18 hrs in a classroom, and theoretically that also means 18 hrs studying, writing papers, etc. for their classes, making it a total of 36 hrs. per week academically outside of AROTC. Now, they expect a freshmen cadet to add in 30 hrs for ROTC on top of their academics? The avg adult, and let's be honest, including, the cadre is not putting in a 66 hr work week or iows 13 hr days 5 days a week, but the cadre is expecting that out of them?
3. AROTC HSSP scholarships have the 1st yr freebie option. IOWS if the contracted freshmen decides before their 1st day of school as a sophomore they can leave with no repayment owed. Many kids do leave.
I am not implying that it is not competitive, because it is.
I will add a caveat. Is he at an SMC? That is totally different than a traditional college, but part of that difference is they have to be in both the Corps and ROTC which is where I can see when you put both of those together it would be 30 hrs.
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+1 to Pima. I can see a freshman, in say NROTC, spend 12-15 hours per week with that increasing each year with increased responsibility. I have no idea what ANG would add to this on a weekly basis but I'm sure it's not peanuts. Of course the ANG commitment won't go away if he drops ROTC and skipping a semester is not going to address the problem long term. His best bet is to sit down with the cadre and figure out how to resolve the conflicts and make sure his Guard unit is in agreement. I get a sense there may just be some bad vibes because of the conflicts and miscommunications.
Thank you for the reply PIMA. My DS is at a State University and yes, taking 18 credit hours in a very demanding STEM major. As I mentioned, he is also in the Army National Guard -- his ROTC hours are separate from the hours he spends at ANG (drills are once a month Thu-Sun). He did go to Basic and AIT where hes was the Honor Graduate. He wants to succeed in his endeavors; but his major is a highly demanding one and, though he is not failing, he is making an average of 2.0. This is totally unlike him (A student in college prep HS). He is not a partying young man, so that does not interfere at all; but he says he doesn't have time to sleep more than 2-4 hrs (homework and studying at night) and it is affecting his school-work. He lives on campus to make his life a little easier, so no commuting. He is NOT contracted and NOT on a ROTC scholarship, and though he wanted to be, now he says he no longer wants to be an Officer. He will simply complete his enlistment in the Army National Guard.
He was chastised (in an e-mail) by an ROTC Cadre Officer for being at his appointed place of duty this weekend (Army National Guard Drill week-end), instead of attending the ROTC FTX (something he had told his ROTC chain of command, since the beginning of the semester); however, my DS doesn't have an option, he needs to be at his Drill -- At least so we were told, and no waivers are available (he was told), particularly since his Battalion was conducting Weapons Qualification. In fact, he qualified on several types of weapons, receiving the highest score for his company. The Battalion Commander then had a competition between the best shooters (one per company), and my DS won the Battalion competition. This is just to say that he applies himself in every activity.
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If he is only getting 2-4 hours of sleep a night then he is mismanaging his time somewhere. Certainly a typical STEM freshman would not have that demanding a time in their major, as they are just getting started. Later, yes. Freshman year, no. Just my 2 cents. I mean no disrespect, just being a Dad trying to figure things out. That;s not to say the first year of college isn't hard as it's a big adjustment in terms of level of expectations and just life itself.
Pima
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I am going to actually disagree here.
Imagine @MichaelAZs DS's life. His DS is also ANG, where he drill monthly.
~ Our DS as a jr in college had a roommate that was in AROTC and ANG. He had to travel hrs to drill with the ANG. It was a weekend where he could not study for an exam on Monday or write a term paper due on Tuesday. He had to get it done by Friday a.m. bc he knew that the weekend was basically his PT job as an ANG member. It is not like there is an ANG unit around every corner. They may get released by 4 on a Sunday, but if they have to drive 2-3 hrs to get to the unit, they will be wiped out when they return back to their dorm Sunday night.
The stress of a CoC stating what they stated and the cadet is a freshmen, add in their commitment to the ANG, AND now 30 hrs plus pulling a strong cgpa to get contracted would cause even an adult at our ages to have insomnia.
~ IOWS, he might be saying to the folks that between all of the work in ROTC and the academic demands he only sleeps those few hrs.
Freshmen yr is very hard for any kid. They want to fly the nest the minute they are accepted to their college, but 6-9 weeks into the academic yr. they get home sick. They start to have 2nd doubts, especially when at this point they are going through mid-terms, yet come winter break, by the end of it they are biting at the bit to get back to the dorms to start their spring semester.
Be there for the venting, and don't be shocked if his opinion changes from November to January.
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@Pima - I agree there will be relatively sleepless nights, but not 2-4 hours on average all month. Yup, there'll be a crunch before and after his training weekend but it ought to level off in between. And I agree that freshman year can be hard, which is how some people get off track. Not to say the kid is a slacker but I'd still consider time management adjustments. Time management is extremely difficult to learn as is learning when good enough is 'good enough'.
Certainly don't mean to argue. I just think its something worth looking at. Only the DS will know.
Certainly don't mean to argue. I just think its something worth looking at. Only the DS will know.
Montana State Army ROTC
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The policy is clear to PMS’s. Non contracted SMP students attend drill over ROTC events. Contracted SMP MS3/4s must attend ROTC over drill. His cadre is just being difficult.
Thanks for the information! My DS told me the same thing -- Drill has priority over ROTC because he is NOT contracted. I must admit I didn't think my DS was right; I "assumed" his Cadre (0-4) MUST know the policy. Go figure! Which also means the same Cadre officer does NOT know his Cadets! Thank you again!
taking 18 credit hours in a very demanding STEM major.
He doesn't have time for ROTC and ANG. He is setting himself up for failure.
Any competitive STEM program will require a minimum of 2.5 hours of study--at the top schools' cutthroat programs it's actually more like 3 hours-- of study per week for each credit hour. So your son is probably required to spend a total of at least 68 hours per week, perhaps as many as 72 hours (18 + 54 = 72) each week just to keep pace with his STEM major classmates.
He needs even more than that many hours each week just to take care of basic necessities like sleeping, eating, washing, clothing himself and getting back and forth to classes and drill.
In short, I don't see how he can succeed in a very demanding STEM major; get enough sleep etc; and still perform at a high level in ROTC while fulfilling ANG duties each month-- without destroying himself.
He has to cut back. Does he absolutely need 18 credits? Can he drop a course-- or two?
I would urge him to talk to his academic counselor in his STEM major asap and change his academic schedule. What he's doing is insane.
He doesn't have time for ROTC and ANG. He is setting himself up for failure.
Any competitive STEM program will require a minimum of 2.5 hours of study--at the top schools' cutthroat programs it's actually more like 3 hours-- of study per week for each credit hour. So your son is probably required to spend a total of at least 68 hours per week, perhaps as many as 72 hours (18 + 54 = 72) each week just to keep pace with his STEM major classmates.
He needs even more than that many hours each week just to take care of basic necessities like sleeping, eating, washing, clothing himself and getting back and forth to classes and drill.
In short, I don't see how he can succeed in a very demanding STEM major; get enough sleep etc; and still perform at a high level in ROTC while fulfilling ANG duties each month-- without destroying himself.
He has to cut back. Does he absolutely need 18 credits? Can he drop a course-- or two?
I would urge him to talk to his academic counselor in his STEM major asap and change his academic schedule. What he's doing is insane.
@Montana State Army ROTC:
Agree. This is my DS second semester in college; he was deferred for military duty (Basic and AIT) and started this past Spring. His adviser recommended these many hours, to keep him "on track" with his peers; I didn't agree, the plan was too ambitious in my view. But my DS wanted to do it. So it is not really working out. He will scale down to 14 hrs in the Spring semester and his adviser agreed.
@Pima and others who understand the ROTC CoC -- Is there some sort of "mentorship" in ROTC? My DS feels overwhelmed and doesn't have (or so he thinks) anyone he can talk with. He tells me he did talk with the SGT and CPT (cadre); however, they simply told him to suck it up. He needs to be competitive if he wants to be contracted. Shouldn't there be "someone" who could guide him? As of yesterday, he said he will drop out of ROTC.
No idea what to do at this point. Any suggestions?
No idea what to do at this point. Any suggestions?
ProudDad17
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Does he have an assigned mentor within the unit; generally someone in the 2nd or 3rd year? In my DS' NROTC unit incoming mids are assigned a mentor who helps guide them, especially during the first semester. Seems to be a fairly common practice among NROTC units, but not sure about other branches.
He doesn't have one. Also, if it makes any difference, is considered an MSII; he told me it is a mistake. Next semester he becomes a Sophomore. You know, I am the "take action" kind of person; however, I fully understand I cannot do that. In other words, my DS is not very open about anything; he wants to be independent of course. I only found out about his "decision" to drop out of ROTC because we were talking about the courses for the next semester. On 5 Nov, he will register for the Spring Semester, minus the ROTC course. I think it is a big mistake.