CFA question

D

Dielast

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Joined
Feb 18, 2019
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My son attended USMA SLE this summer and received a passing score (not at risk) on his CFA. He recently sent his scores in for USAFA but received an email from his admission counselor questioning wether he really wants to submit. His scores weren’t spectacular but passing. He could improve for sure but can you fail for USAFA if you passed with USMA? My understanding was that once you pass you are done and you can move on. Is that not the case? Here were his scores. Thanks for any info.
Push ups 49
Pull-ups 6
1 mile 6:55
Shuttle 9.5
Basketball throw 65
Crunches 76
Score: 506
 
USAFA and USMA are two different academies with two different sets of criteria. Similar in many aspects, but different nonetheless. What’s good for one academy won’t necessarily be so for another. Each one makes its own decisions.
 
Dielast said:
My son attended USMA SLE this summer and received a passing score (not at risk) on his CFA. He recently sent his scores in for USAFA but received an email from his admission counselor questioning wether he really wants to submit. His scores weren’t spectacular but passing. He could improve for sure but can you fail for USAFA if you passed with USMA? My understanding was that once you pass you are done and you can move on. Is that not the case? Here were his scores. Thanks for any info.
Push ups 49
Pull-ups 6
1 mile 6:55
Shuttle 9.5
Basketball throw 65
Crunches 76
Score: 506
Click to expand...
It may be worth it since USAFA is different than USMA to retake he CFA just to see if he can improve after his prior experience.
 
If you are below the goals listed here I would train and retake. Again this is a competition and you want to get all the points you can on your WCS.

I have heard unofficially that USAFA's CFA standards are slightly higher than the other SA's due to the altitude and its effects on those not accustomed to it. Being a "low lander" my DS maxed most of the CFA tests and still struggled with athletic performance at altitude for the first few weeks of BCT.

https://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/the-application-process/fitness-assessment/
 
Hi!

I'm an ALO for USAFA...I administer, on average, about 20 CFA's a year. I see all kinds of scores.

My $0.79 worth (price of a Circle K Big Drink)...

Push ups 49 *okay...but low compared to most I see...shoot for over 60
Pull-ups 6 *better than 95% of all high school age males I see...but...a little low for USAFA...shoot for 10 at least
1 mile 6:55 *not bad...I'd like to see him knock about 25 seconds off that...I tell my male candidates to shoot for 6:30
Shuttle 9.5 **NO....he needs to get this down. Check the surface he's running on, try a track, parking lot (NO GRASS), whatever...8.5 at least, less is better
Basketball throw 65 *OH so close...I tell my candidates: "70 is magic..." There's a "trick" to this...YouTube...
Crunches 76 *again, VERY nice, I'd like to see him over 80. That shouldn't be too tough, he's very close now!!

So...do I sound negative? I don't mean to be. His overall scores are not bad, however to me his shuttle run is a "red flag" number. USAFA won't tell you what the "pass/fail" numbers are...all his numbers are "good" except the shuttle run, IMHO. I'd shoot for what I put down just to be more competitive. There will be kids out there maxing one or more events. I have a young man there now...he took about two months of hard work and made serious improvements in all areas. It just takes repetition: hard work yields excellent results.

Again, my $0.79 worth.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Remember that your child is competing against kids who are going to (sometimes far) exceed those posted MAX scores. If s/he were my son, I would definitely go into training for the CFA NOW.

AND, train in order of event. Train hard. IN ORDER OF EVENT.
 
flieger83 said:
Hi!

I'm an ALO for USAFA...I administer, on average, about 20 CFA's a year. I see all kinds of scores.

My $0.79 worth (price of a Circle K Big Drink)...

Push ups 49 *okay...but low compared to most I see...shoot for over 60
Pull-ups 6 *better than 95% of all high school age males I see...but...a little low for USAFA...shoot for 10 at least
1 mile 6:55 *not bad...I'd like to see him knock about 25 seconds off that...I tell my male candidates to shoot for 6:30
Shuttle 9.5 **NO....he needs to get this down. Check the surface he's running on, try a track, parking lot (NO GRASS), whatever...8.5 at least, less is better
Basketball throw 65 *OH so close...I tell my candidates: "70 is magic..." There's a "trick" to this...YouTube...
Crunches 76 *again, VERY nice, I'd like to see him over 80. That shouldn't be too tough, he's very close now!!

So...do I sound negative? I don't mean to be. His overall scores are not bad, however to me his shuttle run is a "red flag" number. USAFA won't tell you what the "pass/fail" numbers are...all his numbers are "good" except the shuttle run, IMHO. I'd shoot for what I put down just to be more competitive. There will be kids out there maxing one or more events. I have a young man there now...he took about two months of hard work and made serious improvements in all areas. It just takes repetition: hard work yields excellent results.

Again, my $0.79 worth.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...

If I could star this post, I would.
 
flieger83 said:
Hi!

I'm an ALO for USAFA...I administer, on average, about 20 CFA's a year. I see all kinds of scores.

My $0.79 worth (price of a Circle K Big Drink)...

Push ups 49 *okay...but low compared to most I see...shoot for over 60
Pull-ups 6 *better than 95% of all high school age males I see...but...a little low for USAFA...shoot for 10 at least
1 mile 6:55 *not bad...I'd like to see him knock about 25 seconds off that...I tell my male candidates to shoot for 6:30
Shuttle 9.5 **NO....he needs to get this down. Check the surface he's running on, try a track, parking lot (NO GRASS), whatever...8.5 at least, less is better
Basketball throw 65 *OH so close...I tell my candidates: "70 is magic..." There's a "trick" to this...YouTube...
Crunches 76 *again, VERY nice, I'd like to see him over 80. That shouldn't be too tough, he's very close now!!

So...do I sound negative? I don't mean to be. His overall scores are not bad, however to me his shuttle run is a "red flag" number. USAFA won't tell you what the "pass/fail" numbers are...all his numbers are "good" except the shuttle run, IMHO. I'd shoot for what I put down just to be more competitive. There will be kids out there maxing one or more events. I have a young man there now...he took about two months of hard work and made serious improvements in all areas. It just takes repetition: hard work yields excellent results.

Again, my $0.79 worth.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...

Screenshot and saved— Thank you
 
Who else here is so excited never to have to worry about the Basketball Toss ever again?! That thing gave me literal nightmares. (Yes, I had one about it- it wasn't pretty.)
 
Dielast said:
My son attended USMA SLE this summer and received a passing score (not at risk) on his CFA. He recently sent his scores in for USAFA but received an email from his admission counselor questioning wether he really wants to submit. His scores weren’t spectacular but passing. He could improve for sure but can you fail for USAFA if you passed with USMA? My understanding was that once you pass you are done and you can move on. Is that not the case? Here were his scores. Thanks for any info.
Push ups 49
Pull-ups 6
1 mile 6:55
Shuttle 9.5
Basketball throw 65
Crunches 76
Score: 506
Click to expand...

Good evening,

Although I am just another applicant, I do have some advice on your son's situation. The reason why you got your email is most probably because you are submitting a score that was recorded during the summer seminar for USMA. Remember that if his candidate package opened July 1st (for USAFA), your son would have until November 1st to submit his CFA scores. Your son could really use that time to train for all the events in the CFA, and I would advise that he do so. Not to say your son is not physically fit, but submitting below average scores can put him in a disadvantage. If he gets denied because of his CFA scores, looks back to his time as a candidate, and realizes that he could've done much better if he trained for a couple more months, it would really hit him quite hard.

Make sure he takes the time to improve the scores because he actually has a lot of time at the moment. Shuttle run and basketball throw takes technique (youtube it), while crunches and the mile run takes pacing. Pushups and pullups are developed over time as your son works on his upper body strength. Make sure that he is doing the pushups properly. I caught myself doing half pushups for a whole 2 weeks, and that was literally 2 weeks of work that went down the drain. If he has trouble with keeping form, make sure he records himself, and does research to see what the correct form is for military style pushups and pullups. Even the mile run and shuttle run depend on form. Slow-mo record him while he runs/sprints/turns around, and figure out where he can improve.

Best of luck,
Krishna
 
It is not case specific to our poster, DD was also asked if she wanted to use SLE scores (626), and was a bit worried as well, because 2 events were below average. USNA and USMMA accepted SLE scores and passed. She decided to submit (in case of injury, better to have a score on file) and if she failed, she knew it would be BBall 36 and/or 8:18 mile. DD passed.
 
Last edited:
flieger83 said:
Hi!

I'm an ALO for USAFA...I administer, on average, about 20 CFA's a year. I see all kinds of scores.

My $0.79 worth (price of a Circle K Big Drink)...

Push ups 49 *okay...but low compared to most I see...shoot for over 60
Pull-ups 6 *better than 95% of all high school age males I see...but...a little low for USAFA...shoot for 10 at least
1 mile 6:55 *not bad...I'd like to see him knock about 25 seconds off that...I tell my male candidates to shoot for 6:30
Shuttle 9.5 **NO....he needs to get this down. Check the surface he's running on, try a track, parking lot (NO GRASS), whatever...8.5 at least, less is better
Basketball throw 65 *OH so close...I tell my candidates: "70 is magic..." There's a "trick" to this...YouTube...
Crunches 76 *again, VERY nice, I'd like to see him over 80. That shouldn't be too tough, he's very close now!!

So...do I sound negative? I don't mean to be. His overall scores are not bad, however to me his shuttle run is a "red flag" number. USAFA won't tell you what the "pass/fail" numbers are...all his numbers are "good" except the shuttle run, IMHO. I'd shoot for what I put down just to be more competitive. There will be kids out there maxing one or more events. I have a young man there now...he took about two months of hard work and made serious improvements in all areas. It just takes repetition: hard work yields excellent results.

Again, my $0.79 worth.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...

Would you pls give similar numbers for females also? That way I can know where my DD stands when she is ready. Thank you so much for your input and comments.
 
txfwindian said:
flieger83 said:
Hi!

I'm an ALO for USAFA...I administer, on average, about 20 CFA's a year. I see all kinds of scores.

My $0.79 worth (price of a Circle K Big Drink)...

Push ups 49 *okay...but low compared to most I see...shoot for over 60
Pull-ups 6 *better than 95% of all high school age males I see...but...a little low for USAFA...shoot for 10 at least
1 mile 6:55 *not bad...I'd like to see him knock about 25 seconds off that...I tell my male candidates to shoot for 6:30
Shuttle 9.5 **NO....he needs to get this down. Check the surface he's running on, try a track, parking lot (NO GRASS), whatever...8.5 at least, less is better
Basketball throw 65 *OH so close...I tell my candidates: "70 is magic..." There's a "trick" to this...YouTube...
Crunches 76 *again, VERY nice, I'd like to see him over 80. That shouldn't be too tough, he's very close now!!

So...do I sound negative? I don't mean to be. His overall scores are not bad, however to me his shuttle run is a "red flag" number. USAFA won't tell you what the "pass/fail" numbers are...all his numbers are "good" except the shuttle run, IMHO. I'd shoot for what I put down just to be more competitive. There will be kids out there maxing one or more events. I have a young man there now...he took about two months of hard work and made serious improvements in all areas. It just takes repetition: hard work yields excellent results.

Again, my $0.79 worth.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...

Would you pls give similar numbers for females also? That way I can know where my DD stands when she is ready. Thank you so much for your input and comments.
Click to expand...
Absolutely!

The academy admissions website gives the "official" maximums and their "goal" numbers and are easy to see. I'll post them here and then give my "what I typically see" numbers beside them.

Admissions CFA "max/goal" numbers:

***What I typically see with competitive candidates
Basketball Throw Max: 66′ Goal: 42′ 45' is what I will see commonly
Pull-Ups (men/women) Max: 7 Goal: 2 3-4 if she can only do two, that's fine but even one more is a big increase on score
Flexed Arm Hang (women) Max: 63 sec Goal: 31 sec FORGET THIS: Do at least ONE pullup. She can do a 10 hour arm hang; 1 pullup will beat that
Shuttle Run Max: 8.6 Goal: sec 9.4 sec I think I've had quick ladies; they average around 9.0 - 9.1
Modified Sit-Ups (crunches) Max: 95 Goal: 78 ALWAYS above 78...this is an area the ladies should crush the guys in
Push-Ups Max: 50 Goal: 41 More than a few times I've seen under 40. The 41 is a GOOD goal, more is awesome!
One Mile Run Max: 6:00 Goal: 7:30 Anywhere between these is GOOD! I tell my ladies to shoot for 7:00, less is a bonus.

If your DD can meet or exceed the "goal" numbers and match what I've put down, she'll be FINE in this category.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
flieger83 said:
Absolutely!

The academy admissions website gives the "official" maximums and their "goal" numbers and are easy to see. I'll post them here and then give my "what I typically see" numbers beside them.

Admissions CFA "max/goal" numbers:

***What I typically see with competitive candidates
Basketball Throw Max: 66′ Goal: 42′ 45' is what I will see commonly
Pull-Ups (men/women) Max: 7 Goal: 2 3-4 if she can only do two, that's fine but even one more is a big increase on score
Flexed Arm Hang (women) Max: 63 sec Goal: 31 sec FORGET THIS: Do at least ONE pullup. She can do a 10 hour arm hang; 1 pullup will beat that
Shuttle Run Max: 8.6 Goal: sec 9.4 sec I think I've had quick ladies; they average around 9.0 - 9.1
Modified Sit-Ups (crunches) Max: 95 Goal: 78 ALWAYS above 78...this is an area the ladies should crush the guys in
Push-Ups Max: 50 Goal: 41 More than a few times I've seen under 40. The 41 is a GOOD goal, more is awesome!
One Mile Run Max: 6:00 Goal: 7:30 Anywhere between these is GOOD! I tell my ladies to shoot for 7:00, less is a bonus.

If your DD can meet or exceed the "goal" numbers and match what I've put down, she'll be FINE in this category.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Click to expand...

Thank you so much. Now since I have some preferred numbers, my DD can work towards it. My guidance to her is that she should demonstrate exemplify in this category to make up for deficiency in sports.
 
I believe USMA and USNA have the same maxes and averages for the events, however, I think USAFA actually has higher averages and maxes than USMA and USNA on some events. I just took my CFA yesterday, and I would recommend your son train specifically for the events. The best way to train in my opinion is to do the events over and over again until he is comfortable with them! If he is taking the shuttle run on turf or grass, cleats help a lot! (soccer cleats are what I used).
 
Last edited:
anlee said:
I believe USMA and USNA have the same maxes and averages for the events, however, I think USAFA actually has higher averages and maxes than USMA and USNA on some events. I just took my CFA yesterday, and I would recommend your son train specifically for the events. The best way to train in my opinion is to do the events over and over again until he is comfortable with them! If he is taking the shuttle run on turf or grass, cleats help a lot! (soccer cleats are what I used).
Click to expand...
Kudos to an "on point" post!

NEVER EVER take the CFA until you KNOW what you will score. That means you've taken it (practice) many times and know your ability.

NEVER let this be a surprise.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
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