CFAs

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bbear47

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Oct 7, 2019
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my daughter is applying to USNA. She had been lucky enough to attend Summer Seminar in June and was sad to leave because it was such a great experience. She was given her CFA there, however the circumstances were not as fair because when she was tested on her pull up/arm hang there was no assistance to get into the position of the flex arm hang so she scored a 0. She is so nervous about this process as any student is when applying to colleges etc. She says she does not have time to retake it with her gym teacher, however I just think she is scared of failing it. She is an athlete in Lacrosse and color guard so she is fit. She does not want that to be the thing that keeps her from getting an appointment. Any advice?
 
Did your DD fail the CFA? I assume so because she received a zero in one event, but want to confirm. If she doesn't know, she should ask her Admissions counselor or her BGO, both of whom will know.

If she failed, she has no choice but to retake if she wants to attend a SA. She'll need to find the time -- she has until Jan. 31. Also, that is plenty of time to improve in the arm hang/pull ups. If she dedicates literally 5 minutes per day for the next 6 weeks, she will have no issue passing that event.

On a related note, how did she do overall? Was she maxing out most of the events or barely passing. If she maxed out (or came close) in the other events, especially the push-ups -- and she somehow passed -- then she won't need to retake. If she was far from the max in several events (especially push-ups, sit-ups and mile), then in this uber-competitive world, she should consider retaking. Remember that, when you retake, they zero out your old scores and your new ones count -- for better or worse.
 
The CFA at NASS is a nice start, but due to the crowded conditions, successful candidates (who go on to receive appointments) tend to push themselves to learn from the NASS experience and improve their scores. Once they get home, they ask their friendly BGO or other USNA-approved proctor to do it again. Don't give up the ship!
 
A passing CFA is a requirement for a fully qualified application. If she really wants this, she will make a plan with a re-take goal, a commitment to practicing, getting coaching help for the flexed arm hang.
Thousands of other HS students with equally busy schedules and varsity teams find the time to apply to multiple academies, plus ROTC and prep for the CFA. She can too, by being ruthless with her schedule.

If she wants to go to USNA, she must want to be a warrior who may be called to go in harm’s way and deal with fear.

Let her figure this out herself. Plenty of women and men struggle with the upper body portion of the CFA.

There are YouTube videos on CFA technique. She can google Stew Smith’s CFA prep. He is a former Navy SEAL and USNA staff officer, now a fitness professional.

“Fear is a reaction. Courage is a decision.”
- Sir Winston Churchill.
 
Well...as my name suggests....my advice is “just do it “. No sense in worrying or making excuses. I LOVE that quote CAPT MJ closed with.

Pretty much j would tell my
Kiddo “of you want it (an appointment), get busy and retake. If you don’t? Don’t. Up to you but don’t whine about it.”

And regarding the “fair” statement, nothing is fair. Plebe summer it very UNfair. So if these things are bothersome to her, red flag. It really does take a certain personality to succeed at USNA (not saying your DS doesn’t).

As far as summer seminar goes, it’s not a true representation of the reality of USNA. It’s more like sea trials and some military stuff with a bit of academics. It’s very different from what life is really like day in and day out.

She has time. It takes ten minutes to do before school one day. Maybe she does fail. Take it again. This WILL be the thing that holds her back from an appointment if she lets it.

Good luck. Parenting is hard. But she has to want it. Maybe she really doesn’t?
 
She did fail her CFAs .
Push-Ups: 23
Sit-Ups: 41
Flex-Arm: 0
Basketball Throw: 25
Mile Run: 10:32
Shuttle Run: 10.5

usna1985 said:
Did your DD fail the CFA? I assume so because she received a zero in one event, but want to confirm. If she doesn't know, she should ask her Admissions counselor or her BGO, both of whom will know.

If she failed, she has no choice but to retake if she wants to attend a SA. She'll need to find the time -- she has until Jan. 31. Also, that is plenty of time to improve in the arm hang/pull ups. If she dedicates literally 5 minutes per day for the next 6 weeks, she will have no issue passing that event.

On a related note, how did she do overall? Was she maxing out most of the events or barely passing. If she maxed out (or came close) in the other events, especially the push-ups -- and she somehow passed -- then she won't need to retake. If she was far from the max in several events (especially push-ups, sit-ups and mile), then in this uber-competitive world, she should consider retaking. Remember that, when you retake, they zero out your old scores and your new ones count -- for better or worse.
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Brutal honesty. Those CFA scores are poor, and your daughter will need significant improvement to be competitive for an appointment. You say your DD is fit. That may be true compared to high school students in general, many of whom cannot do one lap around a quarter mile track. But those scores do not indicate good fitness when compared to other SA candidates. I would recommend a sit down heart-to-heart with your DD to find out what her goals really are. If she is determined that she wants to have a go at USNA (or any service academy) then she has to make a plan to improve significantly on her CFA. (Have her aim for at least one real pull-up which beats any flexed arm hang time.) Plenty of resources exist to help her make that plan, many of which are referenced above. My kids (way above averages and mostly maxed on CFA) swear by Stew Smith. Bottom line is her time management skills need to be strengthened in order for her to be successful plebe year. No excuses. Good luck. Start today.
 
I agree with KPMom -- those scores need improvement across the board. She cannot receive an appointment without passing the CFA. Honestly, she should have been working on this since NASS (nearly 4 months ago) and probably needs to double her current scores in pushups and situps and take at least 2.5 minutes off her mile to be competitive.

Bottom line: A CFA failure will keep her from getting into USNA, USAFA and USMA. You need to have a talk with her -- and she needs to have one with herself -- regarding her goals and what she's willing to do to achieve them.
 
DS emailed his admissions officer last week asking how to improve his file. The Lieutenant responded with 3 things: CFA, ACT scores (29 math and 36 english) and get good grades on his college transcript (he is a college freshman). It was interesting to me that the LT listed the CFA first, he said that although DS has passing score, the LT challenged my DS to take it again and improve his basketball throw (62’) and push-ups (45). DS is motivated to improve and will retake the CFA after working on his push-ups for a couple of months, he thinks late December or early January. My question is this; he has very good results in the other events (12 pull-ups, 85 sit-ups, 8.8 shuttle and a 5:58 mile) will improving push-ups and B.B. throw make that big of a point difference? Also what if he doesn’t do as well in the other events that are already on file? Thanks for any advice.
 
The new scores replace the old scores - whether they are better or worse. Pushups are important for USNA because it’s part of the PRat you take as a mid.
 
My DD’s admission counselor emailed her last week and said even though my DD passed she recommended that she retake her CFA. My daughter said she would and AC replied that she would hold my daughter’s application until she repeated it. I don’t know when she will find the time either but she knows she has to if she wants a shot at USNA. These are her scores to compare. She took it at NASS, knows she can do a lot better on the mile and working to get that pull up.

Push ups 50
Sit ups 45
Flex arm hang 5 seconds
Mile 7:35
Shuttle 10.11
Basketball 28
 
You can retake the CFA as many times as you want prior to Jan 31. However, as a reminder, each time the scores are reset. There is no super-scoring.
 
usna1985 said:
You can retake the CFA as many times as you want prior to Jan 31. However, as a reminder, each time the scores are reset. There is no super-scoring.
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Is this correct for other SAs ( USMA, USAFA)?
 
I recall something an admissions counselor said during one of the live webinars... "doing one pullup is better than flexed arm hanging for three days straight!!"
 
I don’t know the policy of USMA or USAFA in terms of retaking the CFA.
 
usna1985 said:
I don’t know the policy of USMA or USAFA in terms of retaking the CFA.
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Don’t quote me, but I believe USMA either offers two tries in total for the CFA or two re-takes. I believe that is what I heard at an AIM presentation.
 
I agree with kpmom2013 and usna1985 in that your DD's CFA scores are poor and a failing score will keep her from attending a service academy. On the positive side there remains time to train and retake the assessment. As a track and cross country coach I recommend that your DD put together a good 2-3 month training plan then retake the CFA. A huge improvement in your DD's scores is possible with determination and hard work. Just this season I have seen huge gains in my middle school cross country runners after only 6 weeks of training 5 days/week. Use online training tips - Stew Smith was mentioned above.

Here is my DD's experience... DD is currently a Plebe, class of 2023 at USNA and a recruited track athlete. She trained all 4 years of high school: planks and core work, weight room during the summer/fall and 400 meter sprinting in winter and outdoor track. She also completed the CFA at NASS and ran 6:20 for the mile (not bad for a sprinter). According to DD the hardest part of Plebe summer - by far- was the distance running! She started in group 5 of the 7 Plebe running groups then moved up to group 4.

Perspective candidates for the class of 2024 please digest what I just stated above... My DD is a recruited division 1 runner/sprinter and struggled with distance runs during Plebe summer. She moved up to the 4th fastest running group but there were 3 squads of runners ahead of her. This past summer many people asked if DD was running at the Academy. My answer was always, "Yes, and yes!" Future class of 2024 I offer my advice as a Plebe dad and track coach. Begin your training now with planks, pushups, crunches and distance runs. Run. Run. Run. Take the day off before I-Day. Good luck.
 
Wickets said:
I agree with kpmom2013 and usna1985 in that your DD's CFA scores are poor and a failing score will keep her from attending a service academy. On the positive side there remains time to train and retake the assessment. As a track and cross country coach I recommend that your DD put together a good 2-3 month training plan then retake the CFA. A huge improvement in your DD's scores is possible with determination and hard work. Just this season I have seen huge gains in my middle school cross country runners after only 6 weeks of training 5 days/week. Use online training tips - Stew Smith was mentioned above.

Here is my DD's experience... DD is currently a Plebe, class of 2023 at USNA and a recruited track athlete. She trained all 4 years of high school: planks and core work, weight room during the summer/fall and 400 meter sprinting in winter and outdoor track. She also completed the CFA at NASS and ran 6:20 for the mile (not bad for a sprinter). According to DD the hardest part of Plebe summer - by far- was the distance running! She started in group 5 of the 7 Plebe running groups then moved up to group 4.

Perspective candidates for the class of 2024 please digest what I just stated above... My DD is a recruited division 1 runner/sprinter and struggled with distance runs during Plebe summer. She moved up to the 4th fastest running group but there were 3 squads of runners ahead of her. This past summer many people asked if DD was running at the Academy. My answer was always, "Yes, and yes!" Future class of 2024 I offer my advice as a Plebe dad and track coach. Begin your training now with planks, pushups, crunches and distance runs. Run. Run. Run. Take the day off before I-Day. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the positive note on this. I know she can do it and with all other aspects of obtaining her appointment to the academy she is on track. She is an exceptional student (Ranked 10 in a class of 302) so she can do this. She knows it is a poor score and I think she needs to hear it from her BGO in her interview on Oct 27th.
She is a lacrosse goalie so she does not run as much as the rest of the team and just became seriously interested in attending the academy about a year ago so she has not been "training" like all the others.
When we met with the admissions counselor she did say that the academy does look at the applicant as a whole, although the CFA is needed for admission everything gets taken into account.
 
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