chances + advice

hopefull2022 said:
No offense I’m just confused why you keep saying u need a 1400 to get in. The average sat score for the academy is a 1320 so shouldn’t a 1320 as well as a good all around resume give u about a 50% chance of admission? Also I looked at some stats and 55% of qualified females got in. So what is qualified? Obviously my goal is to score as high as possible but I’m involved in a ton of extra curricular activities as well as the largest class load my school offers so a 1600 is a very unrealistic goal. I only have a tiny bit of free time a day to study so I am trying to make use of it best and get an honest target that is achieveable in 12 days as well as keep my grades up and keep my athletics on point. Also isn’t class rank a pretty important factor? Thanks in advance.
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Think of it this way: If you have 5 successful candidates who each have 1400 scores, their average is 1400. Now add one more candidate who is a prior enlisted/disadvantaged background/recruited athlete who gets in with an 1100 score. That group of 6 now has an average score of 1350, yet 5 of the 6 were at 1400.

You don’t need a 1400 to get in, but most candidates are at or above that score.

Stealth_81
 
hopefull2022 said:
The average sat score for the academy is a 1320 so shouldn’t a 1320 as well as a good all around resume give u about a 50% chance of admission? Also I looked at some stats and 55% of qualified females got in. So what is qualified?
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At the risk of piling on, it’s important to clarify a few things. The advice you’re getting is that SA admissions is a highly competitive process. Your credentials look like those of many candidates who get in — and many candidates who don’t get in. So it’s worth considering:

According to the USAFA Class of 2024 profile, 1273 was the 25th percentile for SAT scores. The mean score was 1364. What you don’t know is the other credentials for candidates with that mean score. Without that data, hard to know how you really stack up.

An average SAT score and a “good all-around resume” does NOT mean you have 50% chance of admission. And for that matter, 55% of “qualified” female candidates being admitted does NOT mean you have 55% chance of admission. Don’t know where those numbers came from, but the process isn’t that linear.

When people say “qualified,” they usually mean 3Q (academic, physical, medical) with a nom. Of those who’ve met this criteria in recent years, about 40%-45% have been admitted (both genders). But again, that’s not the same thing as having 40%-45% chance. Some have much higher odds, some much lower.

In the end, it’s a complex process that creates each class. As you say, you don’t NEED a 1400. Depending on a lot of factors, you may need less. Or you may need more. And it takes only ONE candidate with better credentials than yours to make your district competitive. So as much as it’s physically practical and financially feasible, take the SAT until you feel like you’ve maxed out your ability.
 
hopefull2022 said:
No offense I’m just confused why you keep saying u need a 1400 to get in. The average sat score for the academy is a 1320 so shouldn’t a 1320 as well as a good all around resume give u about a 50% chance of admission? Also I looked at some stats and 55% of qualified females got in. So what is qualified? Obviously my goal is to score as high as possible but I’m involved in a ton of extra curricular activities as well as the largest class load my school offers so a 1600 is a very unrealistic goal. I only have a tiny bit of free time a day to study so I am trying to make use of it best and get an honest target that is achieveable in 12 days as well as keep my grades up and keep my athletics on point. Also isn’t class rank a pretty important factor? Thanks in advance.
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The biggest issue is that you need to get a nomination so that means do well enough within your Congressional district to be one of what is usually only ten nominations from your MOC. Look at YOUR Congressional District - how many high schools are there within it. I don't know for sure in mine but offhand I'd say more than 30. What if there is a "you" in half of them, that means that you have 15 others that you need to stand out from.

As for a ton of activities, let me profile a candidate that I am familiar with from an earlier cycle.
Class rank in single digits in a class of 220 with 10 APs. Unweighted GPA of 4.0 (all A's in High School). 3 season athlete, 2 yrs Capt of Cross Country plus one year each Capt of Indoor and Outdoor Track. All Conference in Cross Country. Capt of Debate, Science Olympiad and Math Teams. Placed in statewide oratorical contest. Boys State. Worked at local pizza shop 8-10 hrs per week through the year. Eagle Scout completed Senior Year. SAT scores just under 1500. I don't know how much he had to study/prep for the SATs but I think he took them more than twice.

I'm not saying that your district will have 10 kids like this but you might have some and they are your competition for a nomination and appointment as opposed to the kids that you see within your high school..
 
Ditto to pretty much what has already been said.

I will only add that you are going to be ranked and you get one shot each year. So you want the highest score and best ranking you can get. Test scores and GPA are a huge portion of your score so they are extremely important. I don't care about a ton of ECs, I care about quality ECs and transformative experiences that you can communicate via interview and essay.

Get used to being ranked if you want to go Service Academy. You get ranked ot determine if you get in. You will be ranked on Academics, Athletics, Military and overall every semester while at USAFA. These can be used to determine what summer activities you can get and eventually can impact your USAF assignment and/or graduate school opportunities. And then when you are on active duty, you will be ranked and ranked and ranked. (By the way, a lot of corporations do this too so its just part of life really). I always tried to look at it like a game to win and there are a lot of competitive personalities at USAFA and in the military.
 
hopefull2022 said:
No offense I’m just confused why you keep saying u need a 1400 to get in. The average sat score for the academy is a 1320 so shouldn’t a 1320 as well as a good all around resume give u about a 50% chance of admission? Also I looked at some stats and 55% of qualified females got in. So what is qualified? Obviously my goal is to score as high as possible but I’m involved in a ton of extra curricular activities as well as the largest class load my school offers so a 1600 is a very unrealistic goal. I only have a tiny bit of free time a day to study so I am trying to make use of it best and get an honest target that is achieveable in 12 days as well as keep my grades up and keep my athletics on point. Also isn’t class rank a pretty important factor? Thanks in advance.
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Everyone here make excellent points. Here's just my thought process...

When applying to a SA, never, and I repeat never assume you're going to be accepted just for the averages. This is on all aspects of your application, not just the standardized tests. You have 10 pull ups in your CFA? Try and get 11. 6 minute mile? Shoot for 5:30. 200 volunteer hours? You can get in another 100 or so this summer. Until you get a 36 ACT or perfect 1600, don't stop trying. Any achievement you have there are probably 10 other candidates with at least that same one, or even more. If you assume that if all the boxes are checked required for USAFA you'll be accepted, you'll be very disappointed. This doesn't just apply to SA's, but many other aspects of life.

If you look through the forums more, you'll see many people with 4.5 GPAs, perfect test scores, several nominations, stellar resumes, and outstanding scores on their CFA who received a TWE from a SA. Now, I'm not saying that you should compare yourself to them because that will drive you in circles like it did for me. However, it will give you the idea that even if you're perfect, there's no guarantee that everything will work out in the end.

When you're at an SA, don't expect to have any free time in your doolie year. Don't try and use "ton of extracurriculars" and "largest class load" as an excuse for not trying harder on the rest of your application. There are many others who are doing the same thing, and managing to keep retesting any chance they get. I've taken my ACT twice now, and I have a third scheduled in July. I've taken my SAT as well and might reschedule a second time. Don't know about you, but today was my last day of school and now have the entire summer to improve. The summer is coming up, and you should have a solid 2-3 months to study and retest. Like my parents always tell me, "No excuses."

In the end, listen to those here who have way more experience than we both do. All they're trying to do is help you the best they can.
 
Won't beat a dead horse here, but will bring up to the OP that the intangibles are also in play here. How do you interview? How are your essays? What about those pesky teacher evaluations that you don't get to read? How do you make others feel when you enter the room? What is the competition in your district (remember it changes every single year)? Lots of things to consider, improve on and practice, including that SAT.

Assuming all things were equal, and a nomination or admission panel were looking at two candidates with almost mirror image applications if one had a 1340 and the other 1560, who do you think they will select?
 
Stealth_81 said:
Think of it this way: If you have 5 successful candidates who each have 1400 scores, their average is 1400. Now add one more candidate who is a prior enlisted/disadvantaged background/recruited athlete who gets in with an 1100 score. That group of 6 now has an average score of 1350, yet 5 of the 6 were at 1400.

You don’t need a 1400 to get in, but most candidates are at or above that score.

Stealth_81
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I never thought I’d it this way, thanks that makes a lot of sence exspesially since about 20% of people there are recruited athletes
 
OldRetSWO said:
The biggest issue is that you need to get a nomination so that means do well enough within your Congressional district to be one of what is usually only ten nominations from your MOC. Look at YOUR Congressional District - how many high schools are there within it. I don't know for sure in mine but offhand I'd say more than 30. What if there is a "you" in half of them, that means that you have 15 others that you need to stand out from.

As for a ton of activities, let me profile a candidate that I am familiar with from an earlier cycle.
Class rank in single digits in a class of 220 with 10 APs. Unweighted GPA of 4.0 (all A's in High School). 3 season athlete, 2 yrs Capt of Cross Country plus one year each Capt of Indoor and Outdoor Track. All Conference in Cross Country. Capt of Debate, Science Olympiad and Math Teams. Placed in statewide oratorical contest. Boys State. Worked at local pizza shop 8-10 hrs per week through the year. Eagle Scout completed Senior Year. SAT scores just under 1500. I don't know how much he had to study/prep for the SATs but I think he took them more than twice.

I'm not saying that your district will have 10 kids like this but you might have some and they are your competition for a nomination and appointment as opposed to the kids that you see within your high school..
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Thanks for advice, but basically what I think I’m hearing is that the day is most important for the nomination. Also where is your district, but you don’t have to say I am not sure if asking that is against rules and I don’t wanna break any.
 
hopefull2022 said:
Thanks for advice, but basically what I think I’m hearing is that the day is most important for the nomination. Also where is your district, but you don’t have to say I am not sure if asking that is against rules and I don’t wanna break any.
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Technically it's not against the rules to ask, but highly discouraged for privacy reasons.
 
hopefull2022 said:
Thanks for advice, but basically what I think I’m hearing is that the day is most important for the nomination. Also where is your district, but you don’t have to say I am not sure if asking that is against rules and I don’t wanna break any.
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I've said it on here before, I'm in Northern NJ. Lots of places with districts that are this competitive - Northern Virginia comes to mind.
That said, I was also a Senatorial interviewer for years and our senators have us interview everyone who applies to them so it is hundreds of applicants from across the state. A typical interview day (for interviewers) will have 12 to 15 interviews of kids from across the state so I have interviewed from a wide variety of districts from Urban to Farms.
 
OldRetSWO said:
I've said it on here before, I'm in Northern NJ. Lots of places with districts that are this competitive - Northern Virginia comes to mind.
That said, I was also a Senatorial interviewer for years and our senators have us interview everyone who applies to them so it is hundreds of applicants from across the state. A typical interview day (for interviewers) will have 12 to 15 interviews of kids from across the state so I have interviewed from a wide variety of districts from Urban to Farms.
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OldRetSWO said:
I've said it on here before, I'm in Northern NJ. Lots of places with districts that are this competitive - Northern Virginia comes to mind.
That said, I was also a Senatorial interviewer for years and our senators have us interview everyone who applies to them so it is hundreds of applicants from across the state. A typical interview day (for interviewers) will have 12 to 15 interviews of kids from across the state so I have interviewed from a wide variety of districts from Urban to Farms.
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Can I dm you about my district
 
Average SAT scores for service academies:

USAFA 1320
USMMA 1310
USCGA 1260 tenths higher than USNA
USNA 1260
USMA 1250

Go Air Force!!! Don't know why but I am surprised Air Force is the highest. The perception is the USNA is the hardest to get into.
 
jeffinCharlotte said:
Average SAT scores for service academies:

USAFA 1320
USMMA 1310
USCGA 1260 tenths higher than USNA
USNA 1260
USMA 1250

Go Air Force!!! Don't know why but I am surprised Air Force is the highest. The perception is the USNA is the hardest to get into.
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Those are prepscholar's numbers and they lack context. The average for directs from High School who are not recruited athletes is significantly higher. Note that I did not specify which academy I applied that to but it is certainly true for USAFA, USMA and USNA.

But hey, if someone wants to sit on those average scores from the quoted post, feel free to do so. Personally I would not be confident of getting a Q from the USNA admissions board with a 1260 and then there is the need to get a nomination which can also be competitive
 
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At the end of the day it comes down to a risk reward calculation. If you can afford to spend time to improve why wouldn’t you?

The SA process is one that proves you leave nothing to chance, no points on the board and no advantage left to be had.

If by chance you skate through to a nomination and appointment you will likely have your a** handed to you plebe year.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Those are prepscholar's numbers and they lack context. The average for directs from High School who are not recruited athletes is significantly higher. Note that I did not specify which academy I applied that to but it is certainly true for USAFA, USMA and USNA.

But hey, if someone wants to sit on those average scores from the quoted post, feel free to do so. Personally I would not be confident of getting a Q from the USNA admissions board with a 1260 and then there is the need to get a nomination which can also be competitive
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I really was not saying to be ok with a 1320. I was just pointing out USAFA had the highest average. Have a co worker now that tells me all the time how much harder it is to get into the USNA vs USAFA:)
 
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