Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Exar Ganis, Nov 30, 2007.
But the admissions boards of the academies are.
"Sometimes we have to lie alittle bit to save us trouble."
EG -- my suggestion is that you show your father this whole thread -- particularly the line above, and have a discussion with him about the subject. I am not suggesting this because I think your dad will chew you out, but as a way to have a real discussion with him. I think (hope) that your interpretation of bending the truth for convenience sake and his probably differ and he will be able to explain these differences to you. I also think you will better understand why the members of this forum find the words so inflammatory, as I perceive you as still thinking it is a trivial matter that everyone has blown out of proportion.
Yes. I was at SLS, and I do remember the honor code monument. Forget about the parts where I said lying was okay to save me trouble. I want to zero in the fact that I will feign my interest with Army ROTC, because quite frankly, my goal is to commission, and I don't truly care which way I go. I prefer the SA, but ROTC is just as equal in my eyes. I guess in that case, I wouldn't be lying to the PMS since I am interested in ROTC just as much.
Out of curiosity, is it that the colleges you have picked aren't thrilling you? Which colleges are you looking at? Citadel, VMI or are you going mainstream...UCLA (figure since you are calif. resident that would be a top contender)
Maybe ROTC doesn't thrill you because you want the whole atmosphere, if that is the case try looking at other colleges. Remember, if I am correct you are not yet Triple Q'd and every candidates need a back-up.
I am not saying you won't get in, I am saying people would love to get a ROTC scholarship. This of course goes back to the changing majors, because ROTC scholarships are given out depending on majors.
I agree w/ Pima...if my kid were online spewing things that would embarass the family or give strangers information to identify us, first I would rip him a new one, then he would be so grounded. After I took away the computer I'd take away the car. If you were my kid, life would be very, very unpleasant for you for quite a while. Fortunately, my son would never behave in this manner.
I always wanted to go to a SA since I was really young, and I still do. SLS made the SA admission possibility feel as though it was in the palm of my hand. I have slightly changed my mind almost to a full 180 degrees because my congressman and senator seem to have alienated me from their pile of prospective candidates. I have never lived in CA or anywhere in the U.S. (only a few months in Washington D.C. I feel as though my CA congressman are somewhat treating my unfairly. The only chance I have is with a JROTC nomination and Presidential. I have contemplated in the last 5 hours to submit an application ED II to one school, but something is stopping me from doing this. I do want the SA experience more than anything. No one in my family has ever gone to a service academy, and everyone has been through military service as a career. My dad was indeed a USMA hopeful, but wasn't accepted, and earned his commission through UCLA ROTC. AND NO! I didn't apply to any UCs. Way too big for me. I'm used to DoDDea schools that have a total school population of 1000. I'm also considering civil prep too, but at the same time, I don't know if I'd get rejected a second time from my nominating authorities.
You want that commission no matter what...well let's break down the commission that I just pulled out of my desk. I'm only going to cover the first little bit.
"Know Ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the patriotism, valor, fidelity, and abilities of XXXXXXX, I do appoint this Officer to the grade of Lieutenant Junior Grade in the United States Coast Guard to rank as such...."
Trust - n. reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence.
Fidelity - n.
1. strict observance of promises, duties, etc.: a servant's fidelity.
2. loyalty: fidelity to one's country.
3. conjugal faithfulness.
4. adherence to fact or detail.
5. accuracy; exactness: The speech was transcribed with great fidelity.
I also want to break down one of the words from the trust definition.
Integrity - n. 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
From your comments, I find you lacking in this,but you CAN change that.
You see, this document I have here next to me, with the letter head of The President of the United States doesn't agree with what you have said. This is a legal document, notifying me of my OBLIGATIONS to the American people signed "By the President" by Dept. of Homeland Secuirty Sec. Chertoff.
It means that I hold this rank because the President and the people of the United States TRUST in my INTEGRITY and my STRICT OBSERVANCE of my PROMISES to those people in the discharge of those duties. It's not up to ME to decide when a little white lie is appropriate or how I can trick someone to better my position.
It's not the rank you seek, or the commission you can put on your wall. It is about your service contributing to the greater good of this fine nation.
If you had the nod in the palm of your hand and a presidential, than the SA should still be there. You are under the belief that the MOC's are not looking at you because out of sight mentality. Let's addresss this logically:
1. California is competitive. I have stated before we are coming from a competitive state over 315 for the senators alone...figure it out, if you were from here you better have at least a couple of the following to be comp:
2. Sports year round every year
4. Positions on school board
5. 1400-1600 SAT...remember writing doesn't count
6. 31 + ACT
7. Eagle Scout
8. 3.6+ UW over 4.2 W
I am sure I missed things, but you need to compare yourself to the other candidates
2. IF you are competitive than your pres should get you in.
3. I have read many posters who felt the same that SLS will be your hook, and found out it wasn't. Main reason this is untrue is because many candidates never applied to SLS, thus, you now have a larger competitive pool.
4. What did you get on your CFA, did you max it out, or just pass...is this a reason the nod is no longer in the palm of your hand?
5. What makes you more competitive than your peers. I do not meant that it an antagonistic way, but you need to give us your stats for any of us to give you an honest opinion
YOu could be spinning your wheels, if you want help then give us all of the facts, not some that you selectively chose
Honor is what it is all about.
The Conversation of the Trees
Stribling Walk was enshrouded by the veil of nighttime. The crickets were playing their sonorous symphonies for audiences unseen. A palpable darkness enveloped everything. I walked down that ancient red brick path from study hall and it all seemed especially eerie. The feeling sank into the depths of my being and consumed me. The impression might have come from the age of the path I tread. Or perhaps it was an awareness of the millions of lives affected by others who had walked this same path. Maybe it was simply that I was tired and passing in and out of a dreamy state of mind. But whatever the reason, my senses were sharpened to my surroundings.
I noticed the texture of the sidewalk, the humid Chesapeake air, and the sound of my steps in the silence. I looked up at the cathedral-like canopy of leaves hung from the outstretched arms of the trees and I imagined them as old men, bony and gaunt with age, still diligently performing a task they were given before time began. Considering these wizened sages, I wondered, "If you could talk, what conversations would you have with one another? What would be the subject of your discourse?"
Then, even as the questions formed in my mind, I began to hear in the shivering of their leaves a code, a language of communication. Like a radioman hearing some forbidden message from a foreign country intended only for privileged ears, I began to decipher the conversation of the trees.
At first, it was an unintelligible whisper, too faint to hear. Then the wind picked up a little and I could hear it very well. Their conversation consisted of a single word, "honor." At first I wasn't sure I heard correctly. Surely these trees have not spent their hundreds of years talking only about honor! Of many important topics in life, to dwell on only one seemed absurdly limited. The objections continued to rise in my mind. There are uncounted issues to be resolved. They must focus on those as well, correct? But it came again, more loudly,"HONOR."
Their persistence won out. I pondered, "Is there unique wisdom in this singular focus? After all, they have had a long time to dwell on many different things and they affirmatively settled on this one. Perhaps there is a reason." And then it came to me. I realized that here, at the Naval Academy, these trees are special. They know what it takes to be a leader. They have seen many leaders. They know what it means to follow truly great men. They have seen many followers. They know what must be done to live life so that, at the end of it, one may lie down unashamed. They have known well those who reached that point. As we walk this path, the trees evaluate each of us by our commitment to honor, and they record the measurement. Each Midshipman is considered, weighed, and judged as to whether he or she fulfills this highest of all virtues. They evaluate carefully, make their judgments, and their judgments are correct.
As I entered T-court, one question remained, "What about me?"
Written by a Midshipman
Exar you are getting a reputation as a sea lawyer already. There is still time to realize that just because others got away with it does not mean it is right.
Who Maj. Gen. Maples is changes nothing about being completely honest at all times, nor does it change the fact that you shouldn't assert you know the inner workings of a service. Like I said earlier, my dad is in the military, and I would never assume to know of what happens "behind closed doors." That's foolish and immature, and it makes you somewhat of an immodest braggart. I would strongly recommend, from one candidate to another, that you begin taking the advice in this thread as soon as possible or consider another career as soon as possible.
I don't count CG as military. Sorry. That's just me.
Well, that was only a matter of time....
I'm not going to dignify that with anymore of a response.
1. Dont Have (Rank 6/180)
5. Don't have
There are times in my life where people say things that completely blow me away. This is one of those times. Requesting thread lock and/or ban.
You owe line in the sand an apology, actually if I am correct (1 thread was shut down b/c of offending) 2 apologies.
What sports, what job, what positions, to say have isn't enough info and if you answered MOC that way it wouldn't give me more detail to continue.
If you don't have the SAT than you are not triple q'd. Thus, why should they even go further. It is than legitimate, why would they spend time on a candidate that is not triple q'd when they have hundreds that are triple q'd?
It is not about out of sight, it is about that as of right now you are not a competitive candidate...sorry that's just the real world.
You have until Jan. 30 for USAFA, Mar for USMA, Apr for USNA (won't give USCGA...notice it starts with the same 2 letters as all of the others and ends with the same letter...apologize) So go take the SAT over again, you have a nom, unlike others who would just be kicked out of the system. Realize even with a pres. only 1/4th get in...You need that SAT to get up!
Ignorant. Completely ignorant.
Look, the whole WP fiasco is over with. I had the honor to look over my teacher's recs because it is part of our school policy that teachers show their students what they write, unless the voluntarily waive their rights. My English and science teachers maxed me out, but my math teacher murdered me. It's a lost cause.
Well now, I can sleep a little better at night, knowing the Men and Women of the US Armed Forces will be just that much safer.
From the way you used "Honor" there, it's pretty clear that concept is foreign to you.
Good luck in the private sector.
Well does this mean you will not finish your application?
I am surprised that you got to see the rec, because USAFA is an on-line situation. We had no idea what S's said. As a matter of fact we never saw any rec's even for college, because his univ. stated must be in a sealed envelope with sig.
Why would you ask a rec from a teacher that doesn't support you? Did you not have another teacher to ask?
Finally, if you intend to get a commission, I am sure your father would tell you that USCG is an integral part of our service and to be a success you will do a joint assignment. Last time I checked the USCG is also working out of the Pentagon. YOU OWE AN APOLOGY! Stand up and be a man. Prove that you would make an excellent officer. By not apologizing you are offending all of us. Line in the Sand, may never PCS out of the US, but he is doing an integral part. I lived in AK and know personally that when a plane goes down over the ocean, the USCG is out there involved with the SAR.
The USCG was involved with the National Guard for Katrina, or do you believe the Guard is military also?
Just for the education of all...the United States Coast Guard works overseas. There are 110' Island Class cutters currently operating in the Persian Gulf, as well as Port Security Units (PSUs) and Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS), who are assigned to US Navy vessels to conduct boardings. Petty Officer Nathan Bruckenthal was killed in the line of duty while serving IN THE COAST GUARD in the Gulf, receiving a bronze star, with valor, and a purple heart. You are welcome to tell his widow or his daughter that he wasn't in the Armed Forces, but don't be surprised if you have Coasties knocking at your door, because it is a close group. PO Bruckenthal worked for my old CO at TACLET South. From time to time a 378' cutter is in the Gulf, all part of Patrol Forces Southwest Asia (PATFORSWA).
The United States Coast Guard has participated in EVERY war the United States has been involved in since 1790. The Coast Guard Cutter (then Revenue Cutter) Harriet Lane fired the first Naval shot in the Civil War. The US Coast Guard lost the highest percentage of any branch of the US military in WWI, landed troops and Marines, provided escorts for ships and even had some members in the OSS in WWII. During Korea the Coast Guard lost pilots over the Korean P. In Vietnam the Coast Guard patrolled off of the coast and lost members including alumni from the USCGA (you might want to check a big black long wall in Washington DC to see the Coast Guard's contribution. During Desert Storm the Coast Guard provided PSUs and again manned US Navy ships with LEDETs.
These are all during war, but I'm not even covering the simultaneous peace time missions that the Coast Guard provides day in and day out. It's more than "I know because I saw the Guardian in theaters." Every day the Coast Guard stops alien migrants in the Florida Straits or Windward Pass. Every day someone is being plucked from the seas.
We do this and more, out of the spotlight, but what gets me, and my shipmates especially "excited" is when some little high school kid who wears a JROTC uniform (deserving or not), thinks his opinion matters, and wants to convey the how much of a fringe branch the US Coast Guard is.
If you want to read more about Petty Officer Bruckenthal, read his Memorial Trust site. He is a hero in the Coast Guard, and he's survived by his daughter. Try to minimize his sacrifice while you look at the picture of his daughter next to his headstone.
Separate names with a comma.