Charged with MIP and terrified of losing scholarship

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by nzallblacks14, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. nzallblacks14

    nzallblacks14 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey y'all I just graduated high school and am headed to a senior military academy on a three year Army ROTC scholarship. I'm on my summer break in between my senior year of high school and first year of college. Me and some buddies went up offroading in the mountains and at about three in the morning while we were camping a park ranger pulls up and finds the alcohol we had drunk. He didn't breathalyze any of us but did give us citations for MIP'S. I'm absolutely terrified that this will lead to me losing my scholarship as I can't pay for college any other way and I want nothing more than to serve. So please any advice you can give would be awesome. This is a first time offense and I have a completely clean record other than this, not even a speeding ticket.
     
  2. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    4,809
    Likes Received:
    4,726
  3. k2rider

    k2rider 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    467
    To start with.....you're a knucklehead. I would say more, think Gunnery Sgt Hartman in Full Metal Jacket, but somebody on the board here would have a coronary. If you truly "want nothing more than to serve", why are you willingly breaking the law? But now that we're past that, if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying your citation is for minor in POSSESSION of alcohol but the Ranger never saw you in possession of any alcohol? Was it in your lap, at your feet or sitting on a table directly in front of you? If none of those apply to you, I suggest you do one of two things.....1) Get a lawyer who will work for you in emphasizing that the Ranger never saw you actually in possession of an alcoholic beverage. 2) Be 100% honest, plead guilty and then hope for the best.

    Either way, you're probably "honor bound" to tell the cadre at your new school about the citation anyway. I *personally* don't think you should lose your scholarship over this, especially since school hasn't started. I would think it would be a bigger deal after you get to school and they lecture you on day one about drinking (or anything else illegal) and then you still go out and do it. I could be wrong though.
     
  4. ArmycadetMS19

    ArmycadetMS19 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    9
    It's not the end of the world. Just remember that you only get a second chance once. There was an army cadet who needed a waiver for 2 MIPs and a medical waiver, and yet he still got it because he was a good cadet.
     
  5. nzallblacks14

    nzallblacks14 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yessir It was a huge mistake, I was sober but was still charged as the alcohol was in the vicinity.
     
  6. k2rider

    k2rider 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    467
    "Vicinity" is pretty vague. Were there (4) guys sitting at a table with (4) open cans of beer? Based on my experience, 99% of judges are not going to look past that and will find you guilty. However, if you were in a lawn chair and the empties were 20 feet away on the table or in the fire ring, you have a good chance to have it tossed. Either way, like Army cadetMS19 alluded, it's most likely not the end of the world. I'm sure some Cadre that post on here will post up on rather you're obligated to reported it yet, since you're not contracted and you haven't been convicted yet.
     
  7. nzallblacks14

    nzallblacks14 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    There was an empty bottle of jack daniels and another full sitting next to a fire ring while I was asleep in my car about 40 ft away. I also plan on getting a lawyer to get this thrown out
     
  8. nzallblacks14

    nzallblacks14 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Do I need to tell my cadre since I'm not technically at the school yet? I plan on getting the charges dropped
     
  9. nzallblacks14

    nzallblacks14 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Also am I going to need a waiver?
     
  10. k2rider

    k2rider 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    467
    Yeah, that's a BS ticket....at least based on my training & 31 years experience in "big city" policing. I would have never even thought about writing a citation like that. You *probably* don't even need a lawyer if it's that egregious but your area may be different.

    As far as telling the cadre, somebody with more knowledge than I have will have to chime in. Barring an actual conviction for the offense, I can't imagine you need a waiver but I'll leave that for the experts as well. Based on the other thread A-ROTC Dad attached, it may be up to the PMS at your chosen school.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  11. nzallblacks14

    nzallblacks14 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you for the advice it's really appreciated
     
  12. ArmycadetMS19

    ArmycadetMS19 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    9
    You may or may not need a waiver, depending on the outcome. it'd be different if you were arrested -- in which case you need a waiver regardless of outcome. Again, i think you should be good. I'd still tell the cadre for honesty's purpose
     
  13. brovol

    brovol Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,612
    Likes Received:
    1,493
    Will the others confirm you were not drinking or possessing the alcohol? Will they sign an affidavit that they purchased and possessed the booze? If so, have an attorney prepare the affidavits, and present them to the prosecutor, along with your personal circumstances. The prosecutor has discretion to dismiss the MIP either if he/she feels you are innocent, or if they have insufficient evidence to proceed.

    Of course if you were drinking, and your buddies are unwilling to fall on the grenade, that strategy won't work.
     
  14. Dadof2

    Dadof2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    496
    OP, your original post said
    This makes it sound like you were part of the "we". If you really didn't drink, good for you, but bad decision to put yourself in this situation where the group you are with is doing the wrong thing. I hope you learn from this and see how easy it is to get yourself into a bad situation. If you did drink, own up to it now. A lie is no way to start your life at an SMC/ROTC program.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    13,857
    Likes Received:
    2,007
    Could not stress how important that statement is.

    For me your situation is unique. You are not a cadet yet. If you were one you would have had to report this within 48 hrs (? it might be 24, can't recall). Any citation would be sent to the detachment, thus this is why posters will say own up to it. However, since you are not yet in the det. I am not sure that they will be informed, so you may not be in the same situation as if this occurred over Thanksgiving.

    I will tell you that for AF your chances of not only losing your scholarship, but being dis-enrolled would be pretty high if you were a cadet.

    I don't know what you want to do in the Army, but certain career fields will require a Top Secret Clearance. This situation will come back again. For TS clearance they will require you to fill out pages and pages (@60) and this will be part of it. On top of that they will interview your references, at least 3. It is done by a federal agent. The interview is @30-45 minutes. They will ask you and the references point blank...do you know if they have had any actions with the law? The answer will be YES. They will ask the references do they drink? Answer will be YES. Do the references believe you have an alcohol addiction? Again, this is why people are saying 1x is a shame on you, 2x is shame on them.

    You have yet to enter college, and the fact is you have at least 3 years before you are legally of age. Watch yourself. I said this on the other thread... look at your FB page very carefully. Those fun camping pictures can come back and bite you! As an 18 yr old, FB is like a popularity contest. More friends you have, the more popular you are in your mind. As an adult, like your AROTC CoC, they see FB as a way to hurt yourself, thus we don't have 700 friends, our friends are truly our friends. I am in management and many of my friends are too. One thing we all do when interviewing candidates is to go on FB and look at their page and PHOTOS. It can be a make or break point for employment. Just saying.
     
    KeyzCat and AROTC-dad like this.
  16. ProudDad17

    ProudDad17 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    296
    Ok, let me just echo what was previously said first; you made a poor decision putting yourself in this position. I am sure lots of other incoming cadets/midshipmen are putting themselves in the same situation this summer; you just got caught. That said, I'll focus on what you can do now.

    First, I would never advocate lying; that is absolutely unacceptable, but remember, it is up to the prosecution to prove the offense, not on you to prove your innocence. You do not say what state you are in, but as a California police officer for over 20 years, I can tell you that, around here, these tickets are handled in the same manner as a traffic ticket. There is no prosecutor from the District Attorney's office, it is just you and the officer in front of the judge. The officer tells the judge what he observed and why he wrote the ticket, then you get the opportunity to make a statement to the judge or ask the officer questions. You could ask the officer questions about where you were when he saw you, where the alcohol was in relation to you, did he see you with any alcohol in your actual possession, did he conduct any tests to determine if you had been drinking, etc. Just be aware though that if the officer testifies that he smelled an odor of an alcoholic beverage emitting from your breath and person or that you had other objective symptoms of intoxication, that may be enough for the judge to convict you. If the officer does not present any information that connects you to the alcohol at the camp site, you could request that the judge dismiss the charges due to a lack of evidence. Just be sure to remain calm and polite and do not argue with the officer. Direct questions to him and make statements to the judge. If the officer does present evidence connecting you to the alcohol, you could then plead guilty or no contest if you wanted. Also, if the officer does not show up to court without rescheduling the appearance (it happens), the case would be dismissed. If, in fact, you were not drinking (which I doubt from the "we" statement) you could also bring your friends in to testify to that.

    You can do this yourself or you could hire a lawyer to represent you.
     
    AROTC-dad and sheriff3 like this.
  17. sheriff3

    sheriff3 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    587
    My thought is since you are not a cadet yet and you have not been convicted of anything there is nothing to report. If you are found not guilty still nothing to report. You will be required to complete an SF-86 form for your security clearance , I believe you will have to list any law enforcement contacts you have had on that form. Follow the directions on the form to the letter. Do not think that because you were found not guilty you do not need to list. It's up to you if you want to inform your PMS of the contact. If you are found guilty and or get deferred prosecution (stay out of trouble for x months pay a fine, attend a class and it will be expunged from your record) then that is different. If that happens I would advise you to immediately contact cadre and let them know what happened. If I had to bet I would say you will probably keep your scholarship. WARNING... parental advise forthcoming!!!! You seemed to have suffered an acute case of Cranial Rectum Inversion (CRI).While not often fatal it can cause you long term effects such as ... Huge student debt, lose of life long dreams and worse self disappointment and disappointment of those who love you. Fortunately there is a vaccine for this dreaded condition and best of all it's free.... Common Sense, yes that's right. simple common sense will keep you safe from CRI. Every time you go to a party and see booze, drugs and general stupidity ask yourself.... is that beer worth $100,000 or 4 years of my life as an enlisted soldier because that is what it will cost you. Be smart. Good luck.
     
  18. KeyzCat

    KeyzCat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    88
    On the FB thing I come from MP in Army but my job of 11 years before my disabilities kicked me to the curb I was a DVOP aka person that helps Veterans and mainly disabled Veterans that are seeking employment or to overcome barriers to employment so that they then could move into job seeker status. Facebook and other social media have been a huge part of company hire research for over a decade now. Now here's a kicker there have been people that started making two or more facebook pages to have a employer friendly page they can give thinking that a company is going to be fooled. BUT too many facebooks and you may forget that you don't want that party boy or girl Insta or SnapChat to post to the EF page and oppsie now not only did you get busted on not giving your real FB page but now they are going through all stuff you didn't worry about thinking before you posted. Now my DS and I'm sure there are others that are like him he has zero interest in social media other than watching youtube he uses FB messenger and that I made him like the pages of things at school like the ROTC unit and his fraternity yet I constantly have to messenger him when there are things posted on FB I know he is not going to see. So Unlike most parents I'm trying to get him to at least post a picture or even a link to a You tube he liked that isn't too offensive. So those social media things there are extremes on both sides even if you really really are not interested post something If you are using a running or workout app that can post to your facebook do it (but do keep those that show your running path or things that could be a saftey issue friends only ) Don't add everyone that sends you friend requests. Not a shocker that everyone is going to need a security clearance if you have photos /[osts, retweets that show you as a cadet you are going to be at risk of being friended by people that friend military and military families to get information on troop movements and other OPSEC criteria things the free world of social media forgets. Now this goes for us Moms and Dads as well. Yes we are super proud and will be worried when deployed or sent somewhere compartmentalize clean out that friends list (I get worried when I have more than 50 'friends' so I even delete family members I am not talking to on a regular basis and yes I have had to block my mom twice for sharing photos of DS cause she friends anybody.) You need to make sure cadets and family that you take this seriously. Those 'Loose lips sink ships' posters may seem kitchy but they are real. And just to bring it to a personal issue for you I have 3 family members that at different times have had to stay down range because a unit family member posted when the unit was coming back on Facebook. Guessing not only would you prefer your person get to come home on time but you really really don't want to be the reason a unit just got screwed.
    So in conclusion Use social media common sense, time to start reducing contacts now and do NOT add random friend requests! The best is to only be friends with people you know in real life but obviously some people do make real relationships on-line but when you /DS/DD could possibly be trying for a branch that needs TS or higher clearance better to be safe than sorry. My ex-hubby I still do not know to this day exactly what he did nor his security clearance because even getting his security clearance was classified and I don't know what level you had to have to even know it. Not to mention I didn't have need to know. Think now about making those changes because there ARE people out there knowing if they connect with that proud to gush ROTC cadet mom they will be that 'close friend you had for years' when the real work with you starts. *climbing down off my soap box*