ROTC Tolerance of MIPs

A

ArmycadetMS19

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Jun 3, 2017
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No, this isn't the kind of thread where I got in trouble with alcohol and am asking you guys for advice. 2 friends of mine just got busted tonight with Minor In Possession of alcohol charges. Thing is, 1 is in AROTC, and the other in AFROTC.


I know different branches have different standards; AFROTC is apparently the strictest of all when it comes to civil involvements. We all make mistakes. How likely is a waiver for either of these 2 knuckleheads? I'm grateful I didn't decide to go out with them tonight, and I'd highly appreciate any advice you can give them.

Thanks!
 
Slightly off topic, but you say you're glad you didn't go tonight.
This insinuates that you do go out with them when they partake in these activities.
Hopefully you'll learn with them.
 
I don't think anyone on the forum other than our resident ROO's, and AFROTC cadre can venture a guess. My bet is a lot will depend on their overall OML, GPA and EC's.

If they are marginal cadets, then my money is on disenrollment.
 
Both my kids had ROTC cadets in their units get popped for MIP and DUI. None of the cadets caught much heat in the grand scheme of things for MIP. I know the cadet who for the DUI his senior year at my daughters school was permitted to enlist rather than paying back 3.5 years of tuition which would have been over (6) figures for sure. I can't recall what happened with the cadet at my son's school who got the DUI but I remember being surprised by the outcome.
 
MIP only? No info on Afrotc. As for AROTC that cadet needs to inform their cadre ASAP. Take responsibility and hope for the best. Be honest with cadre from the very first word out of his mouth. DS friend had a similar situation and he was not truthful from the beginning and it did not end well, cost him his 3.5 yr scholarship. Sad, great kid and loved ROTC. Totally up to the PMS as to how this plays out. My understanding is if the cadet was a national 4 yr winner then disenrollment needs to be approved by CG AROTC if other than that is can be recommended at the battalion level.
 
Kronk said:
Slightly off topic, but you say you're glad you didn't go tonight.
This insinuates that you do go out with them when they partake in these activities.
Hopefully you'll learn with them.
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All it insinuates is that he is friends with them and goes out with them. It doesnt say he drinks with them or that he is a minor. I understand they are in Rotc and not AD, but isnt it ironic that they can die for their country, but cant drink until they hit 21
 
Kronk said:
Slightly off topic, but you say you're glad you didn't go tonight.
This insinuates that you do go out with them when they partake in these activities.
Hopefully you'll learn with them.
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I 've never drank underage, and up until last night neither did they. I hang out with them, yes, but I haven't made a stupid decision like that. Yes, I will definitely learn from them and follow our BN's motto: don't do anything stupid

AROTC-dad said:
I don't think anyone on the forum other than our resident ROO's, and AFROTC cadre can venture a guess. My bet is a lot will depend on their overall OML, GPA and EC's.

If they are marginal cadets, then my money is on disenrollment.
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It turns out that the AROTC cadet is being permitted to submit a waiver request, but that could take months apparently. The AFROTC cadet, however....he said his PMS is disenrolling him. Shame....he's in the top 10% in his det, too.....
 
Humey said:
All it insinuates is that he is friends with them and goes out with them. It doesnt say he drinks with them or that he is a minor. I understand they are in Rotc and not AD, but isnt it ironic that they can die for their country, but cant drink until they hit 21
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With both sons having been in the same fraternity, I can relate to your him being friends with young people that don't always make the smart choice, best they can do is be responsible for themselves and Be Careful!!

That drinking age debate has been around since the early 80's when the last of the states starting raising their drinking age to keep getting federal highway funding. I had this conversation with one of my sons recently and he made a good point. While service members are in garrison they are working their job and training and abide by the laws regarding drinking in the US. When and if they get deployed to a combat zone and are in a situation where it's possible to "Die for their Country", nobody is allowed to drink no matter their age. His other comment......"It's hard enough to keep everyone in line, can't imagine what it would be like if they let the 18 year old privates drink off duty", I'm sure part of that comment was Tongue and Cheek.
 
k2rider said:
I know the cadet who for the DUI his senior year at my daughters school was permitted to enlist rather than paying back 3.5 years of tuition which would have been over (6) figures for sure.
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This is off topic, but does anyone know how long people have to enlist for to pay off the scholarship? I've heard this mentioned many times but have never heard for how long so I'm curious.
 
bfhsj said:
This is off topic, but does anyone know how long people have to enlist for to pay off the scholarship? I've heard this mentioned many times but have never heard how long so I'm curious.
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Usually it's 4 years Active Duty for a scholarship 3 years or over. Not sure when the scholarship is less then 3 years.
 
Jcleppe said:
Usually it's 4 years Active Duty for a scholarship 3 years or over. Not sure when the scholarship is less then 3 years.
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Wow, that's surprising. I would've thought it would be a lot longer, especially because scholarship winners already owe 4-8 years as an officer. Unless that time enlisted comes with reduced pay or something similar.
 
bfhsj said:
Wow, that's surprising. I would've thought it would be a lot longer, especially because scholarship winners already owe 4-8 years as an officer. Unless that time enlisted comes with reduced pay or something similar.
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The obligation for an officer that commissions with a scholarship is either 4 years Active/4 years Inactive Reserves or 8 years Reserve/National Guard. If they enlist to pay back the scholarship it is the same requirement for Active Duty, 4 years Active/4 years Inactive Reserves.

The pay is significantly lower just due to the fact that they are receiving E-4 pay (if they have completed their degree) as opposed to O-1 pay.
 
ArmycadetMS19 said:
No, this isn't the kind of thread where I got in trouble with alcohol and am asking you guys for advice. 2 friends of mine just got busted tonight with Minor In Possession of alcohol charges. Thing is, 1 is in AROTC, and the other in AFROTC.


I know different branches have different standards; AFROTC is apparently the strictest of all when it comes to civil involvements. We all make mistakes. How likely is a waiver for either of these 2 knuckleheads? I'm grateful I didn't decide to go out with them tonight, and I'd highly appreciate any advice you can give them.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I have a cadet at a Senior Military College and I hear quite frequently AROTC cadets receiving citations for MIP (unfortunately). It's just a fact of life in any college and the word is that it is an issue with their contract status. Not sure if it's a function of "how many" they have or that if it happens, they are put on some type of probation. But it's an issue at this SMC. My DS has sworn-off drinking until he graduates (or is at home with dad once he hits 21). Seems like there are dozens of ways to lose a contract and so very few to earn/keep. My recommendation...there's plenty of time to drink in life. Why ruin an opportunity to be an officer in these armed services over alcohol?
 
ArmycadetMS19 said:
The AFROTC cadet, however....he said his PMS is disenrolling him. Shame....he's in the top 10% in his det, too.....
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The AF highly frowns upon underage drinking. At my DS's det a cadet got a very stern warning not because they were charged with MIP, but because the CoC saw several photos of him with alcohol (pumping a solo cup full of beer from a keg). He was told to watch out. The CoC informed him that he only got a stern warning due to the fact that the picture did not show him imbibing, but just pouring alcohol.

You may wonder how they found these photos. FB of course. The cadet in question was tagged by a non-ROTC friend, thus anybody that was friends with the cadet saw the picture even if they were not friends with the non-ROTC poster. It is important for this generation that although you are a young and we seem old, we do indeed know how to use FB too, and do use it for background checks. That is what that CoC did...he was just watching out for his cadets.
~ The news of this spread so quickly that every cadet in that unit immediately went through their pics and friends on FB so as to not be the next one being called in.
~~DS informed me of this and my response was simple. DUH! Your generation thinks that anything and everything you do is proper to be splashed among your 696 friends. You accept friends like getting a new toy no matter what the new toy is. However, as you get older you will realize it is my generation that really knows the risks of doing that, mainly employers will use it too! AFROTC is your employer. You gladly accepted the CoC because they sent a friend request. You joined the det's FB page. You all opened the door with great convenience to the cadre.
~~~ Yes, DS that day dropped many friends off his FB and removed his name from any photo where he was tagged. He is ADAF now, and may post 1 or 2x a year. His wife posts a lot, but she knows not to tag him. Not that there is anything he should be ashamed of, but because that is how he feels.

This is also why you should never use your name on this site. It is an anonymous forum for a reason.
 
Sorry to hear about the AF Cadet. In regards to AROTC, whether or not you get disenrolled depends on the results of the civil conviction (as that determines if a waiver is needed), and the PMS. The Army tends to be a little more lenient with underage drinking, than the other branches. Meaning that is most cases you will get a second chance. However, there is zero tolerance for DUI.

I was fortunate enough that I was a cadet during the 90s before camera phones and social media. Cell phones were a brick back then, and it was rare to see someone with one. FB gets so many cadets in trouble, as people like to post pics of doing the wrong thing. Most cadre don't look to get you in trouble for underage drinking, however if illegal activities are brought to the attention of cadre or you get in trouble with campus safety/security, we really don't have the choice of ignoring it. Be smart when you go out, and be careful who you hang out with.
 
The whole drinking issue can be frustrating and confusing for an 18yr old kid. In 1985 I was 18 yrs old and barley out of boot camp. I was posted on guard duty at a small camp armory. So here I was 18yrs old locked and loaded with an m-16 and told " if someone comes over the fence and tries to get into the armory you shoot them" . So I'm thinking I can be trusted with a weapon that can fire over 900 rounds a minute and be given the authority to take another human beings life but god forbid if I want to have a 3.2 beer? What the hell! On another note during my law enforcement career I always tried my best to avoid ticketing kids for MIP. The act of having a beer should not be so punitive, an MIP ticket can be the kiss of death for someone who aspires to a career in the military. For you newbies out there be smart . If you wouldn't do it while your PMS or grandma was in the room then don't do it at all or be prepared to suffer the consequences.
 
sheriff3 said:
On another note during my law enforcement career I always tried my best to avoid ticketing kids for MIP. The act of having a beer should not be so punitive.
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I agree and I did the same thing. I would write them for our municipal code violation instead and it was just a simple fine that didn't stay on your record. We even had one judge (who was a retired police officer AND assistant district attorney) that refused to find people guilty of MIP due to the mandatory sentencing requirements here in CA.
 
k2rider said:
I agree and I did the same thing. I would write them for our municipal code violation instead and it was just a simple fine that didn't stay on your record. We even had one judge (who was a retired police officer AND assistant district attorney) that refused to find people guilty of MIP due to the mandatory sentencing requirements here in CA.
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Interesting perspective - and very different from the local college town, where the overeager city police force has been known to hand out MIP tickets to underage individuals who blew anything but a 0.0 on a breathalyzer, regardless of whether they were actually caught with alcohol in their hands (or mouths). Keep in mind these were kids walking down the street (not driving) on homecoming weekend. I believe the practice got shut down after a lawyer (hired by a parent with deep pockets) pointed out that profiling wasn't limited to melanin enhanced skin or hijabs, and if you stopped a kid with acne for a breathalyzer, you better be checking his grandma, too. This was probably 5-8 years ago now, but was headline news in the college newspaper, as you can imagine.
 
The DUI rule is in effect after Commissioning. Friend of my son got a DUI the same night as he made 1LT. He was let go. I believe he has to payback his education since he only did 2 years of his 5 commitment. The DUI payback consequences continue in the Army for officers.

There is no opportunity to go enlisted.

It is probably a good rule not to drink at all if you have to drive.
 
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